"But we took you to Statley Homes" Dysfunctional Families Thread

[Snowdropfairy]

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
November 2010

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Just lurking gingerly around the doorframe (emotional coward who can only stand to think about her past in small doses) only to find myself laughing at your cat training post Skinnedalive :)

You sound like an excellent slave and am sure you will find a way through the morass you're in at the moment.

The not having anyone to turn to has been the same for me too since I was a child and the getting looked at strangely when I tell people that in RL.

Thank you to whoever explained that to most people it's an impossible concept to get their head around and I can see it must sound to 'normal' people like a bit of a 'tale'

I remember my counsellor saying to me 'don't you think I care about you' when I was relaying my story and me saying 'no, not beyond being a once a week income stream for you' which was and is my honest feeling.

She looked at me really oddly and didn't say another word - the cow :)

As much as having to walk by myself is emotionally painful at times I also feel mostly proud of my continued survival, thanks to the skills and ingenuity I've been forced to acquire (and most of us on this thread will be very similar im sure)

Every cloud....

Cat feeding and bed time for me, thanks for letting me pop in.

Bibi, I'm sure your counsellor did you some good but she does seem to have had her utterly prattish moments, going by some of your comments. I hope and trust that your next will have a bit more genuine empathy.

Good to see you here :) Mind if I join you outside for a fag?

SkinnedAlive I'm going to be a little bit stern here: you're here to take care of yourself first, and the cats only a (very close, if you want) second!

I understand you completely and usually feel the same myself, btw: it's the desire to protect unborn children from the abuse that I was perfectly willing to accept for myself that prompted me to leave my abusive marriage, and when I was feeling suicidal recently, I stuck around on the basis that my puppy relies on me. So that desire to put others first has helped me through hard times. It's also that desire that plonked me straight into hard times (hello, 12 years trying to mould myself to suit abusive stbxh!).

Put yourself first, lady. You deserve it. You are valuable, in and of yourself. You have the right to exist and to thrive for your own benefit, not just for the good of your cats or any other creature on this earth.

Since I'm not 100% able to practice that message myself, and I love outwardly more easily than I love inwardly, here's a little thing I do that could also work for you, depending on how soppy you are with your cats: when I praise my puppy (often), I send a little bit of praise my own way too. When I tell her she's beautiful, when I tell her I'm proud of her, when I just ask her how she's doing... I tell myself that hey! I'm beautiful too. Or that I'm proud of myself (for raising such a lovely dog, for example, or anything else that I happen to be doing at the time). And it's always good to check with myself how I'm feeling. I even get myself a little something from the fridge or fix myself a cup of tea when I feed her. I take damn good care of my puppy, you see; that comes naturally (as it clearly does for you too). So I've just decided to hi-jack some of that care to remember to care for myself too, since that comes a lot less naturally to me (and less naturally to those on this thread). HTH.

That's good advice, ItsMe :) Little and often really does work! x

"I remember my counsellor saying to me 'don't you think I care about you' when I was relaying my story and me saying 'no, not beyond being a once a week income stream for you' which was and is my honest feeling."
yy to this, Bibi. I've never had the courage to say this to any of them but have always felt it.

Only one has ever said that to me. I was already well-therapied up, thank goodness, so I replied "Do you feel you need to care about me?"

[hgrin]

I've seen the counsellor again since the session where I said nobody does care - and she's checked my notes, finding that MH services have taken steps in the past to get me away from Mum. Whole different attitude! Our next session is the last, so she left it a bit late ... Got my validation, though, which is important.

I'd assumed yours was the same counsellor who said she found you irritating, Bibi
She wasn't that good at professional detachment, was she?!

Oh have I been tempted to say the same sort of thing to one or two therapists! Very brave :) I will also keep garlics comment in mind for when/if it happens again.

You are right ItsMe - I do put the cats first, and I think that is something many of us are perhaps guilty of - putting others first and not being selfish. As my therapist said - self-care NOT selfish. I think it is a wonderful idea to also praise myself [hsmile]. It is such a simple idea but so beautiful at the same time! I am always telling them how much I love them and doing little things for them. One cat is very talkative and chats away to me quite happily all day, the other less chatty but both exceptionally affectionate and loving. I tend to have one or other sitting on me at any one time. I am kind of a mad animal person I have to admit. You have a lucky puppy and sounds like she is getting a great upbringing [hsmile]

I have an exam Friday so I have another 10 minutes to relax then nose to the grindstone!

Happy revision!

Hi all,

Had a letter through from my mum asking me to meet up with her to discuss her arrangements to see DD. In other words, can she see DD more often? Answer, no. I don't even want her seeing her now. Unfortunately, my mum's dog passed away so now it feels very much like she's clinging on or needing DD more iyswim. I'm feeling really frustrated. Luckily I've got counselling starting in a couple of weeks. Cannot wait! Desperately need to talk to someone in person that isn't involved. DP is troubled with his own problems, and though he supports me, thinks that maybe I should let DD see her more just so I can have a break. But I don't want DD with her, not when I'm not there to supervise and make sure she's not telling DD lies. She's already left it for me to break the news that her dog has died. GRRR. I just don't want anything to do with her but feel I'm stuck.

Bear I know there's something complicated (legal proceedings?) regarding your mum's access to your DD, but I can't recall the details, sorry.

Assuming you can't remove contact completely, regarding your mum's request for more: Since you say yourself, "Answer, no", why not make that the answer you give your mother as well?

Just: no. we don't need to meet: I don't want you to see her more often.

...or even just ignore her letter completely if that seems too hard.

Good advice as usual from ItsMe.

When I started saying No to my mother, I felt as if I was breaking some sort of religious taboo and the sky would come crashing down. It didn't She went "Why?" I went "Because I'm not comfortable with it." She started with the "I only wanted ..."; I replied "I know that, Mum, but I'm not comfortable and I don't want to discuss it."

I don't think I could have done it without Stately Homes

We tell our kids "Just say No", don't we??!!

Thanks both of you.

ItsMe, I stopped contact for about 4 months after I found out she was poisoning my DD's mind against me. Then courts came into it, and so I started to allow her to see DD once a month when she's come here for an hour, so it doesn't go through the courts as the last thing I was is for them to grant her access as this happened to one of my best friends' friend.

I usually ignore her letters and communications. Though last time she was here she said to DD that maybe she could go to hers over half term, which really outraged me as she didn't ask me first. So I said no and took DD out for the day that she had suggested. DD is aware that I don't get on with her although she doesn't know finer details such as I don't want her going to her house, but DD is quite happy for her to come here, so it hasn't been such an issue.

Plus last time I had a meeting with my mum to discuss why I had cut contact, she went with the whole "I didn't say those things" and " well if you have to blame someone, I suppose it's best be me then"

I will just ignore the letter and I will say no if I end up bumping into her or something. She just makes me so mad, and I just had to vent.

I also saw my dad today. Bumped into him in Sainsburys. Haven't seen him in probably a year. It was awkward as always, and he told me he's still jobless, so in same boat as me. He looked worse for wear. When I walked away from him, I got very emotional, which really surprised me.

When I walked away from him, I got very emotional, which really surprised me.

Dude, they're your parents: the most primal relationship you have, bar your DC. However much of a detachment yogi you become, that's a relationship that is all emotion. Not surprising at all that meeting your father should have that effect on you!

Do you want to talk about it? What emotions did meeting him evoke in you?

Well my dad left when I was 7, and I had very little contact with him as a kid anyway, but I was always daddy's little girl before then, so I think that's why me and my mum always clashed. For example, when I was about 13, I found a diary my mum had kept when she had me. I was an awkward birth and decided at last minute to be breeched, so she had to have a C-section. So whilst my dad bonded with me, my mum felt resentful and annoyed that she was stuck in bed.

I'm not really sure why I got upset after seeing my dad. My eyes welled up though I didn't cry. He had said when he gets himself straightened out, he'll come visit, which I kind of rolled my eyes at, as he never visits. I suppose I've always wished that I could have had a better relationship with my dad, although I realise he had the option and the choice to do so, but chose not to. Very similar to how my DD's father is with her, unfortunately.

I was an awkward birth and decided at last minute to be breeched

Hope I'm not reading too much in this, but: "you" weren't an awkward birth and you didn't "decide" anything on the day of your birth, fgs! That sounds like your mother's blame-talk. Please don't internalise it! You are not responsible for how your mother experienced your birth.

Also: do I understand correctly that you went from being "daddy's little girl" in the first 7 years of your life, to having very little contact thereafter? Sweetheart, that's a big thing to be sad about! And yes, you're absolutely right it was his choice, and one that must have hurt very much. How could he choose to have so little contact with his daughter after having bonded with you in the first yers of your life?

Bear I don't feel very wise so I won't say much, but I'm just sending support

ItsMe, sorry I was saying that birth bit sarcastically in my head lol. I use to think that, and went through the years of wondering whether it was me, as I did for a long time as so many things went wrong for me as a kid that I did wonder. I had my mum belittle me and hit me, whether I did something wrong or not. My sister and brothers use to tease me for being a tomboy. We use to fight all the time. At school, I had few friends as noone had the same interests as I did, and some of the kids bullied me. Even my primary school teacher picked on me. Felt very much like Harry Potter and Snape. Tbh I'm really surprised how I haven't just gone awol and been more messed up on the outside iykwim. I had DD when I was 18, so I think I'm very lucky that I had something in my life that was good and something that I was proud of and had some meaning in my life. God knows where I'd be if I didn't.

And thanks yellowzombie :)

sorry I was saying that birth bit sarcastically in my head lol

Aah, I did wonder! Sounded spookily like my own mother speaking in her own charming way about how I was clearly determined to make her life miserable from about age 2.

Lol, sorry. She sounds an awful lot like mine too. It's nice to know I'm not alone although I do wonder why such things happen in the first place. I look at my DD and couldn't even imagine being anything like how my mum was to me.

I wondered if I could ask for some advice, well more like validation really? I started some counselling a few weeks ago, which has opened a bit of a can of worms about the relationship with my parents. But I am so confused as to whether what I am expecting from them is unreasonable or not.

I am an only child, my father work abroad lots when I was little. My Mother always had problems with her 'nerves', lots of valium and a spell in a mental health unit at some point. I have very early memories of being told not to do/say things because it would make her ill, and also lots of investigations for illness that never really were there.

When I was 18 I decided to train to be a nurse and left home to do so. My mother was devastated about this and made life really hard for me. This is now the pattern of our relationship. If I do anything/make changes etc, her first reactions are always about how it makes her feel which always makes me feel guilty. At one point I was really keen to do some VSO work, but she stopped me with lots of tears and 'what it would do to her'.

I met DH 4 years ago, and when we got engaged we moved about 40 miles. This was to do with Dh's job, and also to move to a good area for schools etc. She was furious about this and again gave me a really hard time, and really took the shine off what should be an exciting time for me. Even when I went wedding dress shopping with her, she managed to get me to buy the first dress I tried on, as she made it clear we could only go on the one day she offered. This was because my Father had been diagnosed with a small area of skin cancer, that had been treated. He was fine, but she would not leave him and actually told family members she did not want to go at all.

She has some god daughters who are a similar age to me but they have stayed in the local area, are SAHM's etc. I am constantly compared to them and if I dare not keep contact with them she again makes life really hard for me...because it 'makes her look bad'. They all think I don't bother with family, but its because my life is very different. I work, commute, am pregnant with DC2, and barely get to see my best friends let alone them!

I have never, ever been able to tell her what she is doing to me. Any criticism is met with lots of upset, and then she withdraws and ignores me. I feel so guilty, especially as I'll often get a phone call from my Father saying that I have 'made her ill' at some point. It's like I have been trained to never complain.

Since having DC1 though, a lot of this has really surfaced for me. She has let me down on some things that I am really shocked by. She does help, and comes over to me a few times a month...but its on her terms and I would never dream of asking her myself as I am always made to feel guilty, like its a big put out. (They are retired).

A while ago DH had a back injury, we were waiting for the ambulance when I call her to ask for help with DS. They refused to come over as they were worried about the traffic. I was so hurt that I decided not to call for a few days, but yet I was feeling so guilty knowing that my silence would be causing all sorts of problems. I finally gave in and rang, but of course just had to act normally because I dare not tell them what they did really hurt/upset me.

Last example, I promise! I had PND with DS. Lately I have been really struggling, hence the counselling. I was very, very down this week and when she called me I just could not act normally. I told her I was feeling very depressed, and was feeling bleak etc. She asked why, so I explained that I have lots to juggle right now (my job is very stressful) and I was totally overwhelmed. Straight away I could tell this would be about her. She just said that she needed to get off the phone as there was 'nothing she could say'. How can you do that when you daughter is crying out for help?

Counselling has helped me reveal all this. But is this just normal family dynamic? I feel so angry that this is the relationship I have with them, almost grieving that's its not the relationship I think it should be. But then I doubt myself and think maybe I am just asking too much.

I am so, so sorry about the length of this, but my goodness it has been good to get it down. Thank you so much for reading.

Please don't apologise about the length or anything you've written. You've described a family dynamic that is not what it is supposed to be and you don't have to accept it as ok. (I'd like to say not normal, but in my family experience it was - but I think for lots of families it really isn't that way). It is unhealthy and leaves you with hurt, anger and other issues. Some of your examples were almost exactly what's happened to my or my sister or my cousin (our mothers are sisters and are both very difficult - very similar to your mother) eg the letting down when supposed to help with baby, the constant making everything about her, the getting off the phone quickly when you were upset.

My first thought, by the end of the 3rd para, was that your mother is a narcissist, but I don't know her so I'm not going to diagnose her. Although at the very least, she has strong narc tendencies I'd say. You were supposed to be mothered by her, that was her role, but she failed in that. Which left you unmothered, unless someone else stepped in (an aunt, older sibling etc?). And if you were left unmothered, then naturally there will be a lot of as yet unexplored issues that you will have.

Do NOT feel guilty for expecting more from them, or for "letting them down". Have you heard of the FOG - fear, obligation and guilt? It is typical of children who have had self-absorbed parents. It's natural to feel grief when you realise that the relationship you should have had just isn't there (and probably never was, if I'm honest. There's a great line from Oliver James' book "They f*ck you up" which says that parents who are like this when you are an adult are hardly likely to have been empathic parenters and nurturers when you were younger). You deserved a nurturing mother, and you didn't get one. Of course you will feel grief over this.

Swap the roles and go forward 25 years or so. How would you treat your DS when he finds his wife, gets married, has children? Nowhere near the way your mother treats/has treated you, I bet. Maybe this helps to validate that you deserve/d far better treatment than you got/are getting from her.

And your father, whilst not being quite as bad outwardly, is enabling her to continue treating you this way, in fact, supporting her to do so with phoning you to say that you have made her "ill". It's almost funny how similar my father is to yours.

It's like I have been trained to never complain.
This is so sad, but I understand. Do you find it difficult to complain or stand up for your boundaries in other areas of your life too? There is a brilliant website Daughters of Narcisstic Mothers that might help you understand some of this and how it affects you now, maybe even in small, seemingly unrelated ways eg one of the things I'd not realised for me was that I still find it difficult to self care (even ensuring I brush my teeth every evening )

I was very, very down this week and when she called me I just could not act normally.
Why should you have to act normally when you are down? Everyone has the right to be authentic - this is what human relationships are about, except that your mother attempts (most likely has trained you) to not allow you this.

There's so much to say about your post, but I'm sure someone will come along with some very wise advice and comments. Please keep posting.

But just know that what you are feeling is entirely natural, acceptable and even healthy.

Update from here. My mother has been held at arms length of recent months which has been good. A harmless chat on the phone in response to how eldest DD was getting on at Uni.
"amazing the amount of stuff there isn't around when she is gone. Mind she does bring back her dirty knickies"
"MMMMFFh. I had to put up with you bringing your shit back all the time".
Left me breathless. My eldest DD's dad left when she was 2 and we had returned to live near my mum. She simply cannot resist the open goal.

Wideawakenurse and bear1984 welcome to a place where you are not in the wrong. I felt for whoever responsed to the counsellor regarding whether or not they cared? Oh that old chestnut...NEXT!

lolaflores what an utterly vile thing to say