"But we took you to Statley Homes" Dysfunctional Families Thread

[Snowdropfairy]

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
November 2010

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

[wideawakenurse]

lolaflores and beaten, thank you so much for replying and your kind welcome.

beaten I was nodding whilst I read your post. My counsellor has touched on her Narc tendencies and I have had a look at that website before. Lots of it resonates with me strongly.

Yes, my Father does enable her. Interestingly, he did not so much when he was working, but he is much worse since retiring and also since his skin cancer diagnosis, he relies on her to check his skin, and administer his creams etc. Since this he has taken her side much more.

I also struggle to stand up for myself in other situations. Funnily enough I started my counselling in relation to my relationship with my boss and how I find it so hard to talk to her and stand up for myself. I have also endured so dreadful behaviour from men over the years, purely because of the fear of them taking their love away if I complained.

So many memories now keep coming into my head, that I used to think meant nothing but now I know better.

First one is when I was 12 I annonnced after a family holiday I wanted to be a travel rep! My Mother was furious, and we had weeks of tears. Honestly, what 12 year old is going to go off and be a travel rep?!! I could not leave school for another 4 years!!

Also, I can clearly remember crying when a Abba song came one - "Slipping through my fingers". Its about a Mother reflecting on her DD growing up, and its sentiment is very sad in terms of the daughter not needing her eventually. I can remember it being on when I was 7 years old, when my mum used to brush my hair after my Sunday bath, and by fighting back the tears. I remember it was because I felt sad that, that is how my Mother would feel at some point. It really effected me. So even then, I felt so responsible for my Mothers feelings.

[BibiBatsberg]

Just catching up with this again and mowing across subsequent posters again

Wideawakenurse - I can relate to so much of what you felt as a child and adult. I too headed for counselling because of a work situation (in hindsight it was bullying but didn't know that at the time)

"I have also endured so dreadful behaviour from men over the years, purely because of the fear of them taking their love away if I complained"

Nodding along to that too - all the relationships I've ever had have been conditional, right from childhood. Counselling woman was trying to impress on me how desperately sad that was and that I could still have unconditional love now. I disagree totally as adult love (in a relationship) is conditional and depends on the behaviour of either party.

If either partner decides to be an utter uncaring arse and does nothing but hurt the other one then love is going to disappear at some point. Just my potted kindergarten analysis there.

I was just pottering around digesting whats been posted here since my last visit and find myself feeling furious really.

For someone in a supposedly professional capacity to try and elicit reassurances from their client just stinks to high heaven now (hindsight being a fine thing)

Furious because it suddenly looks to me like so many people just cannot resist trying to latch on to the care and concern I have as a person/character and desperately trying to get some for themselves - grrrrrr! Especially when I was paying good money for it all to be about meeeeee for a change.

To even be surprised at my response to her 'don't you think I care about you' question - the audacity!! What I should have also said is 'well, are you going to call me just to see how I am? Come and help me if I'm ill/can't feed the cats/car won't start/house is on fire? No? Funny that.

Aah, sorry for the essay but that felt really good to get that sudden realisation down on virtual paper.

[beatenbyayellowzombie]

Ah now it's my turn to nod along to your post! Especially the bits about being responsible for your mother's feelings, and taking poor treatment from men/unable to set boundaries at work for fear of disapproval.

So many memories now keep coming into my head, that I used to think meant nothing but now I know better.
Honestly, what normal mother would dash the dreams of her 12 year old daughter? And what impact has this had on your own ability to dream? I know when I started to realise all of this stuff, I started to realise the impact it had on so many seemingly unrelated aspects of my life. It is almost like I have work through each limiting assumption I'd learnt about me, one by one, to rewrite the script of my life.

The feeling responsible for your parents' emotional health is so wrong. Imagine putting that onto a child?! I can't. It's taken me ages to break free of this one. Everyone is responsible for their own emotional health. You are taking steps to deal with yours, there is no excuse for your mother (and father) not having taken steps to deal with theirs. I used to excuse my parents on the grounds that they are from a different generation, but tbh my aunt and uncle both have seen a counsellor, and they are the same age (late 70s), so that's not an excuse!

I've also noticed that my father, having lived with my narc mother for 52 years, is also incredibly self absorbed.

My new mantra is this:
You have just as much right as anyone to be here, to hold your place, to have needs and wants that deserve to be fulfilled, to be able to say "no" and not be discarded; this is what respect is.

Sorry this became all about me! I am also incredibly self absorbed

[BibiBatsberg]

"Sorry this became all about me! I am also incredibly self absorbed" - glad I'm not the only one :)

Only joking, couldn't resist.

Makes me realise that to discuss what we do here is not self-absorbed, it's self preserving/developing.

I often apologise for my rantings on here because it feels selfish to me to go 'oh, listen to me everyone' and then to wander off again to return at my leisure. Like I've gone 'dump, take that everyone, I'm off now that's been offloaded'

Which is precisely what's happened to me so often in my life - narcs and other selfish personas sucking on the hookah of emotional support, empathy, caring, listening, dumping all of their worries, problems etc and then walking away as soon as I wanted to talk about anything to do with me.

Just realised that (lots of lightbulbs today) :)

[Bear1984]

Just having a quick look through posts as need to go off and carve a pumpkin (not looking forward to that lol) so shall reply again later when I have more time.

Thanks lolaflores How awful. Don't blame you for keeping her at arms length. Sounds very much like my mum. I left DD's father when she was 8 months old, and had to move back in with her for about a year and a half to sort myself out. It was hell. She felt like she was DD's second parent and more important than my ex's parents as a grandparent

Wideawakenurse I'm sorry to hear about the way in which you have been treated to feel guilty and to feel you could never complain. Counselling should help you. A couple of years ago I had a nervous breakdown, and a huge factor of that was because of my mum. My counsellor helped me see that I could in fact say no, that I could stand my ground, and it was a slow process. But it takes time to overcome years and years of this behaviour that is just not acceptable. You will get there.

I also found I was able to look back at past memories and see a completely different take on it like you have. It's surprising how much you can see when looking back and having not realised at the time. But as kids/teens, it's not something we would have really thought of because unfortunately our parents programmed us to believe that they're (in the words of Matilda) smart, we're dumb. They're big, we're small. They're right, we're wrong, and there's nothing we could do about it. But now being able to see a different perspective on it, just the same as the person reading the book or the person watching the film, you realise that the adults are wrong, and the child is better than they're giving credit for and deserve to be happy. (Sorry I watched that film with my DD the other day and it just meant so much to me on so many different levels that I never realised before. Hope my gibberish made some kind of sense!)

BibiBatsberg
Makes me realise that to discuss what we do here is not self-absorbed, it's self preserving/developing. - so true!
And don't worry about just "dumping" any worries or problems, as sometimes we just need to rant.

[beatenbyayellowzombie]

Bibibatsberg

[lolaflores]

it is saturday afternoon and the wave of psychic distrubance caused by my mothers shitty remark still slaps around me. It makes me question everything about myself. In an instant I feel worthless and dirty in some way. The implication that I was shit and dragging shit in with me. Husband is getting the brunt of this, but am sick of explaining and him saying "just ignore her". Simple as that is it? So whats the point telling you if you can reduce it to playground spats and a bit of name calling. This is when I start to feel like an alien being, plonked on this earth with none of the necessary equipment. it would appear that I am over reacting. Feel really angry at all and sundry, my rage sits very close to the surface. My usual coping techniques fail at this point. I feel 12 again, worthless, dirty, ashamed, horribly embarrased at who I am and wishing was somewhere else.

[beatenbyayellowzombie]

lolaflores what your mother said is entirely her issue. She is trying to put her dirt onto you and bring you down by saying things like that. She is the one who should be ashamed, she is the one who should be horribly embarrassed, and she is the one who is utterly in the wrong.

It's no surprise that you are feeling angry - you should - but direct your anger towards your mother's treatment of you.

It has absolutely no reflection on you or your worth. You have coped with your DD's father leaving you, your mother's emotional abuse, and yet you've done the right thing and attempted to be normal with her, which just shows how strong you are (and you write very elegantly, btw).

She has taught you the mythical story that you are dirt, not worthy, rubbish etc. But it is purely and simply a myth. She has created this story. It's not true.

[NotaDisneyMum]

Well, my parents (for which, read, my mother, as she calls the shots) have made their position clear.

As a recap, I was non - contact for a year after they actively supported my abusive exH during and after our divorce; they continue to be very close and all DDs contact with them is through her Dad.

I attempted to initiate some form of contact, with them over the summer, which they conditionally accepted, as long as 'the issues I had' were addressed and resolved first - and they asked for an explanation as to what I believed they had done.

I decided to write them a letter, the composition of which required soul searching which revealed that my 'issue' with them was not only their continuing relationship with exH, but their relentless criticism and judgement of my parenting of DD.

I sent the letter.

Within days, DD revealed that my parents had made the 100 mile+ journey to visit exH, partner and DD. A letter from them arrived with me to coincide with their visit to him, thanking me for being honest in my letter and wishing me luck for the future.

They have clearly made their choice

[Bear1984]

So sorry to hear NotaDisneyMum. That's awful. I wish I could say something useful to you. I suppose if anything least it's clear to you what their choice is and that you can try and use this to move on as easier it is to say than do. I've never spoken to my mum about my "issues" as I know she wouldn't understand or even try to see it from my point of view. So well done for trying and being honest. Sending you lots of hugs.

[wideawakenurse]

Goodness, there is so much pain in everyone's posts.

I feel at bit useless trying to offer advice, as I am just at the start of this journey really. But I do know that by the very fact you are all so hurt by your parents actions proves the depth of feelings that you have. I suppose we can hope for challenging those feelings into the love and support for our children.

Well, I the reason I am up is because I can't sleep - my parents managed to sting my lovely Saturday evening I had planned.

Background is, I am thinking of getting a car. Just a run a round, for me and the DC's when DH is at work. It will the the first car I have bought since passing my test this year. I asked my Father for some advice as I thought he would like that in terms of me asking for help, and he is interested in cars. Told him my budget etc, and said keep an eye out on auto trader if you can.

Cue to a telephone call from him yesterday afternoon saying that a good family friend (who I know well) is looking for a car too for his wife and has found X car for you, sounds very good etc.

I asked my Father for more info, i.e what year is it, milage etc. He became really huffy and started saying, "I'm just in the middle here". He agreed to call the friend and then call me back.

DH answered the phone, as I was getting DS ready to go out. DH took the info my Father found out and said that if the car was still for sale next week we would see it then we we visit them as planned.

DH mentioned that my Father was very off with him and kept saying about, "being in the middle".

As soon as we are in the car, a wave of panic washes over me. I knew they would see us as being ungrateful for not telling them to buy the car, and then not speaking for long even though we were on our way out to a firework display.

So I sent a text to my Father, saying thanks for telling me about the car, will call later when we get back. Very curt reply from either him or my Mother saying, "It's family friend you should thank. He was willing to get the car for you and you pay him back. He cares about you so much, thank him on his wife's number."

So I can tell they are pissed off, and clearly think we have snubbed everyone. But do they honestly expect me to part with almost £1000 on the whim of a telephone call, just to keep everyone happy? I spent the rest of the evening feeling stressed, going over the conversation etc and generally driving myself mad.

DH and I had words too, because he just thinks they are in the wrong, but I should ignore it. Lola, I know how frustrating that is too. If only it was that simple.

I didn't call them back in the end. The thing that gets me the most is that I am 5 months pregnant, and yet they choose to put all this stress in my life. I am not expecting people to treat me with kid gloves, but you'd think they could ease of the guilt a bit for just 9 months?

[lolaflores]

Wideawakenurse this is the smoke and mirrors end of things. They are behaving abnormally. Side step them . thank whoever needs to be thanked and they are possibly normal human beings who understand normal interactions. A thank you will suffice. There does not need to be a drama, except for the one your parents are creating. I understand approaching your dad for advice in the hope that it would create a normal atmosphere....classic mistake. Nothing is normal. Even the simplest of interactions will turn into a fucking nightmare. there is no way now that I would invite my mother into my life in that way. I have lost count of the sleepless nights and tears shed by handing any power to her. She wields it like a broadsword. The less input she has, the less drama she can create with it.

do the normal think nursie. take your cue from how the rest of the world operates. And never ever again allow your parents into your life to such an extent. Even bigger no no is that involving money....I get cold sweats at the thought.

Their oxygen is stress. You make a concious decision to not be involved init. That is how they operate and it spills over at every opportunity. If you wish to remain relatively stress free for the remainder of your pregnancy, have a long think about how to manage your parents. From personal experience, it does not get better no matter how hard you try, or invent possibilites for nice moments or whatever. My mother goes out of her way to shit on them, from the highest height if possible. Stop letting them have an open goal.

Here endeth the sermon

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Hi Wideawakenurse

Can only echo what Lola has stated here.

Your parents have created this drama for their own ends and they get off on it. My guess is also they have always been like this and reading your previous posts only confirmed my suspicions. I would also suggest your mother is a narcissist and your father is a bystander who acts out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. I would not let him off the hook either, he is also at fault.

I can only suggest that you find your own car without any imput at all from them; these people clearly cannot be relied on to not make a mountain out of a molehill. They have and have made it all about them; look how "affronted" they now are because you did not jump to their wishes. Your Dad also got huffy with you because he actually knew nothing about its condition, mileage etc, he just expected you to buy this car unseen and untested. All are typical toxic parents behaviour.

Lesson learnt for future as well; don't tell them anything about your own plans. Keep them away from you. TBH as well I'd keep the pair of them at arms length from your own children, they won't bring anything positive into your kids lives.

My advice FWIW re a car purchase; do a HPI check on it first to make sure it has not been a write off, is of police interest or has outstanding finance on it. Buy a Parkers guide from WHSmiths; that has current values. Use a main dealer to buy it from if you know nothing about cars. Another thing to bear in mind is condition; if you know nothing about cars ask a family friend (not your Dad!) to check it over thoroughly for rust underneath and tyre wear. Think AA would also do a check. I do not think a grand either would buy you a decent runaround, more like an old banger on its last legs with potential clutch and gearbox problems (and that will be highly expensive to put right).

[fluffythevampirestabber]

Just sticking my head in - haven't time to read the whole thread but hope you all don't mind.

Am struggling at the minute with my relationship with my family, I'd cut all contact but the exH still has contact and he and my mother are trying to weedle her back into my (and my kids) life.

I've been having horrible nightmares about it the past few days so I know I have to deal with it somehow

[lolaflores]

fluffs, keep on keeping on. the only way out of this is to remain firm and keep a single light of sanity in your life.
I got into bed with both my girls last night, and gave deep and quiet thanks for them and what I have learned from them. It is normal to love and feel loved. The joy and ease that i feel from them makes up no end for the shit end of the stick I have only received from my mother. There should be no fear of being hurt . That is the simplest of lessons. Long time learning it though

[fluffythevampirestabber]

Thanks Lola - I am staying firm but he and she are well matched, and it's insidious and they're sneaky. Everything with either of them has an agenda and if I was to try to out-think them I'd need to be 2 days ahead of them all the time. Which I can't go - I need to just keep normal and remember that they're the ones with problem and I am (relatively) sane

[lolaflores]

well said that fluffy vampire.

[SkinnedAlive]

You are right lola - it is normal to love ad feel loved. I just wonder what screwed up our families so much to mkae many of them what they are. I never got the chance to ask, but I believe the same man may have abused my grandmother and my mother before me.

On a brighter note. I am ashamed to admit this, but until last night I had not even kissed a man in 15 years [hshock] due to fear, unable to feel desire or have emotional reactions - that sort of thing. I was out for haloween and ended up snogging a very cute Brazilian guy. Ok I behaved a bit disgracefully in public but I felt safe with my friends and this guy was cute and really liked me and I thought 'why not - have to get back on the horse sometime'. I enjoyed it so for all you out there that think it can NEVER EVER happen that you fancy someone again, there is hope!

[lolaflores]

Good woman skinned alive saddle up that horse and well....riding is involved. Take what you need from where you can find it on your terms. And if you can't get a snog at Halloween,,,when can you.

[ItsMeAndMyPumpkinNow]

Skinned is this the hot younger man you mentioned in your thread?

I want to muse to this informed audience about cutting contact. I've heard from so many MNers who have cut contact with dysfunctional parents and who unanimously call it the best thing they ever did.

I am tempted to cut contact, but not sure yet whether it's what I want to do. I will probably be testing the broken record statement of boundaries as a first option.

However, I have just realised yesterday that if I cut contact with my parents, I would be the third in 3 generations of my family to do so, and it did not bring happiness to the two previous people upstream in my family tree who did it: my grandfather still passed his issues on to my mother after cutting ties with his family, and my aunt on the other side stayed with a man who beat her after cutting ties with hers.

I have a feeling that my grandfather and my aunt would also have called cutting contact with their parents one of the best things they ever did. But they did it as a kind of retaliation out of anger, I guess, that did not go hand-in-hand with them processing their own issues.

Now, I believe that I am processing my issues, although obviously I have only a subjective view on that. So I wonder: Will I only be said to truly have processed my issues if I am able to tolerate and accept my parents as they are, without rejecting them for not being the parents I would have liked them to be?

[lolaflores]

itsme, i am becoming of the mind that we must find our own sanity within their toxicity. Lead by example, stay ahead of their game playing, realise that as an adult, their behaviour is not your problem. By becoming more grounded around these people. I believe is life enhancing. You become more true to yourself. They are part of you, but you have to work that bit harder to define yourself on your terms. Perhpas not for everyone, but it is what I am trying to do. It is not a forgiveness thing either, just a way of finding peace through a long process. did that make any sense to anyone?

[ItsMeAndMyPumpkinNow]

I think I see what you're saying, lola, and I agree.

I think that there is no prescribed path to defining ourselves on our own terms. It could pass by a number of different ways, from remaining in frequent contact, to cutting contact completely, as long as we feel sufficiently grounded within ourselves.

[SkinnedAlive]

No, pumpkin this is another guy I met in a club. Its weird, I have 3 short guys (all very young) interested in me just now. The lovely Hungarian, a very nice Turkish vet, and the rather crazy (but good at kissing) Brazilian. None of them are taller than me and short men just aren't for me, sigh. I feel a little like a teenager again!

My whole family are dead so I don't have the problem with having/not having contact. I can see it must be very, very hard :( Sometimes I would like a confrontation and answers from them, but I know I would never get any or it would be outright denial as to what actually happened

[ItsMeAndMyPumpkinNow]

Well look at you, raking in the younger men! Funny, that, for someone who tends to think she's not worth it

[garlicBreathZombie]

I'm continuing to let my family fade away, itsme. It's funny, I was thinking about it this morning, before I read your post. I've been going through a rather odd, unplanned process of reviewing each relative according to their deeds - it's not a pretty picture. There's only one whose actions I don't condemn (the Lost Child) and he's the one I know least well!

This morning's revelation was that, the longer I go between contacts, the greater my clarity of view. Last month I decided not to return calls; there've only been a few, since I've been distancing for two years now. I'm also beginning, tentaively, to feel like I could get back in touch with a handful of real friends - without shame for my long silence. I suspect that, as my relations take up less space in my head, the extra room is slowly being filled by healthier thoughts and feelings.

But I will not actively sever contact. I'll go to weddings and funerals if I'm asked. I'll send Christmas cards. My aim is to put my family members into the same emotional place I keep for people - co-workers, friends' partners, neighbours and so on - with whom I have friendly acquaintance but do not particularly like. It's not for me to judge, only to set and affirm the boundaries of my own life. My new and, I dare say, most important boundary is that I've stopped overlooking obnoxious behaviour. I've put a lot of work into fixing my blind spots. I think that, now I've started "minding", they will choose to stay away.

I want to stress that this is the way I do things; I'm not saying it's better or worse than anyone else's approach. It's comparable to the way I dealt with my drink problem. I went to rehab, did my meetings and (still do) my steps, and, after 8 months sober, learned to drink reasonably again. It is more logical to stay away from alcohol and, I am sure, more logical for many to stay away from their families. Nonetheless, everyone's problem is their own and everyone has their individual attitude to it.

I am an alcoholic who drinks. I am a toxic family survivor who sends Christmas cards. Either of those may change in the future; I don't know, because a pivotal part of recovery is to give up 'black & white' or 'eternity' thinking! I used to envision concepts like flexibility and adaptability as soft and stretchy, like fabric or plasticine. They are gaining more assertive qualities for me now, like the insistent adaptability of life forms and the strength-giving flexibility of sprung steel.

I haven't answered your question but maybe you'll identify with some of my words?