"But we took you to Statley Homes" Dysfunctional Families Thread

[Snowdropfairy]

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
November 2010

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

floofers

ManicPanic has given you some great advice. Some other practical suggestions for going to the GP:

• Write out for yourself what you feel about your history and problems. Don't edit yourself, just write - keep going until it's all out. Doesn't have to be coherent! Once it's done, go and have a drink and a breather. Maybe sleep on it, then look at the letter when you are feeling calmer. What you do with it then is up to you - for a start, getting things down on paper can be very helpful. You've already 'stated' your case, even if to no audience. You could then rewrite the letter so you have a concise summary - or not. You could choose not to look at it again and burn it.

• Try and have an idea what you would like the GP to do for you. A referral for counselling? A prescription for medication? It's absolutely fine if your answer is: 'I'd like the GP to decide the way forward, I don't have the foggiest, I just know I need help'. But knowing the answer (even if the answer is you don't know!) to this question before you go is v important, because you will be able to tell the GP what you'd like from her, thus enabling her to meet your needs. You are fearful of her reaction, but she is far less likely to disappoint you or leave you feeling rejected if you are able to tell her your expectation (if any) from the appointment. Conversely, is there anything you don't want her to do?

• This was ManicPanic's but is worth repeating - make some bullet points of your key points to take with you. I would definitely look at it when talking to the GP. With emotional stuff, it is easy to forget some of the obvious stuff when you're in the full flow of talking.

HTH

I think a difficult hurdle to get over with us stately homers is that we don't necessarily believe we deserve help. I was brought up to feel that I was a bad girl, obviously crazy (mentally abnormal as my mother put it) and so even as a teenage heroin addict it didn't really occur to me to seek / feel that I deserved help. After all, I felt that as my addiction was due to my behaviour, it was my own fault and I should sort myself out and not waste taxpayers money.

It breaks my heart thinking about all the times I've read 'I don't want to waste the doctors time' or 'I don't think it's fair that taxpayers money is being spent on me.'

floofers Don't you have an appointment already set up with the GP for this week though?

As you mentioned your last threads I searched for them. Sounds like you have been trying to speak to your GP about this for some time. In fact I got the impression you did last summer, although it sounds now that you just said one or two words. But that's a great start, no? She knows - or has a strong inkling - of what the issue is, she is likely to be able to prompt you if you're finding it difficult to speak. So I would just go along to the appointment, and try and talk to her. Or hand her a brief note saying you'd like help with this issue. You've done the hard part by broaching the subject, now you just need to take another leap of faith.

Also, does your DH know about your abuse? I saw in one of your threads that you'd shown him that thread about your past as a way of telling him, but then later elsewhere it seemed that he didn't know If he does, then could he come with you to the GP's for moral support, even just waiting outside?

And if he's not being supportive, then you really do need your GP's support now more than ever.

FWIW I think looking into the legal ramifications now is jumping the gun. You need support and help, your children need safeguarding and you need to prioritise those two things.

Good luck.

Hello All,

I have come to the realisation that I don't like my parents and don't want to spend any time with them. Maybe I love them, but I sure don't like them. There are three things I therefore need to sort out:

• weekly phone calls
• annual Christmas holidays
• taking care of them when they become too old and decrepit (in about a decade or so).

This is my decision to make, of course: I'll have to decide whether to keep up the contact but emotionally disengage, or go completely no contact. But just to poll the Stately Home: how do you ladies manage Christmas and elderly care with your narc parents?

Frankly, I'm sick of the Obligation part of FOG. Yes, they raised me, and gave me a good education, and took me on great holidays, and talked with me about art and literature, and my mother even did endless fun arts & crafts projects with us and oh the irony! protected us from our narc grandmother whom she hated. But they still:

• can't hear a word I say
• think it's perfectly normal for my mother to be constantly putting me (and dad and sis) down.

How do those things compare? Which is more important?

I guess the negative part of the scale would be minimal if I could tell them about it, and if they could listen and attempt to change their behaviour for the better. But since I know that's a lost cause, it suddenly makes the deafness and put-downs a major issue to content with; one which perhaps begins to outweigh the positive parenting.

I've just come back from a 10-day holiday with my bestest and oldest friends, and it's quite striking how, while all of them are supportive of my decision to leave my abusive husband, none of them are willing to hear about my feelings towards my abusive mother. It's like they switch off and can't hear, or reply with things like, "But she's your mother !", or "she was so helpful to you with such and such."

It sucks, because I really want to share these feelings with the people who I love the most and who are my best support network. Only one friend gets it: he confided in me how much he also hates spending any time with his parents, and that his names for them when talking about them to his girlfriend are Wolf 1 and Wolf 2.

Hi all, I wanted some advice.

I haven't spoken to my mum in 3 months. Huge step for me! But lately, DD has been asking about when she's going to see her again. I haven't said anything yet as we have just got back from holiday and didn't want that affecting DD whilst we were away. But now that we are back, I'm wondering what to say to her.

I don't want to tell her the honest truth, as I don't want her thinking that it is somehow her fault. The main reason that I don't want contact is because I want to protect my DD from the crap I put up with and having DD subject to having her mind twisted against me.

Do I just tell her me and my mum have fallen out so we're not talking at the moment? Do I just say we're not going to see her again? I really don't know what to do, particularly when DD says about what fun they have together and stuff and making me feel really bad.

It yreally depends on how old your dd is .

If shes very young , id just try and distract her from what shes asked , as in changing the subject.

If shes a school age child , id just simply tell her that your not going to visit granny because you have xyz to do and your too busy at the moment .

If shes older , then be honest and tell her you have fallen out , because granny is being naughty.

If a teen , then just say no , because you stuggle to cope with her behaviour.

Bear

When did DD last speak about your toxic mother?. Are there any other relations that she could have a healthier relationship with?. I would in any case find more emotionally healthy people for your DD to interact with. Your mother caused you much harm (she still would given any opportunity) and toxic parents are more than happy more often than not than to pass on all their crap to the next generation.

I only talk about my BIL if my son directly mentions him (we have no contact with him) and my simple explanation satisfies his innate curiosity. He knows BIL is not a happy or emotionally healthy individual and that is enough for him.

Age of child is also important here; droves gives good counsel re child's age and I personally have used the distraction tactic to good effect.

Attila is spot on about finding nicer people for your dd to be around ! .

Kind , loving people make good positive role models for our children.

Toxic people do not , and they may damage the relationship you have with your child.

My DD is 8. She mentioned her today which was why I asked. She asked me when she was going to see her again. She wanted to call her and tell her about the holiday we've been on and see what she's been up to.

Unfortunately I don't speak to any of my family anymore and my mum is the last to be cut out really. DD also has rubbish relationships with her father, although gets on okay with his sister, so apart from me and DP, I feel she doesn't have steady, positive role models within the family.

I've also had a letter from my mum saying that she misses the both of us (use to only just say DD) and that she wants to just put all this behind us and see DD.

It's so hard to come to the realisation that your parents damaged you when you were young and completely in their thrall, AND, having discovered that, to not be able to have that realisation validated by anyone other than a tiny handful of enlightened witnesses (if you're lucky).

It's an additional insult added to the childhood injury: invalidation in childhood by parents, followed by invalidation in adulthood by a society that wants you to honour your parents (especially your mother).

My friends treat me like some kind of tantrumming child, or blasphemer, when I mention how angry I am at my mother and father. I can count only 4 who acknowledge what I say, and that's only because they have similar parents and can understand firsthand.

I am going to be in so much hot water with the majority of my loved ones when I start laying down boundaries with my mother. That's going to be really painful to weather. Really hard, because having given up on the idea of parental love, I need my friends' love and support even more. And they are going to be shocked and put off by my behaviour when I start standing up to my mother and she kicks off about it. This sucks.

My friends understand how I feel about my parents. I did have one relative tell me how could I fall out with and not see my mother, every girl needs her mum, blah blah blah. I just shrugged it off. This woman didn't know anything about my situation or the abuse, and frankly if someone is going to be so obtuse, naive and or thick to make an absolute situation, and to not realise that there must be some situations where people are best off without their mother in their lives, then frankly I'm not bothered by their opinion.

I do think it can be a bit difficult for some people to understand though, because most people joke that they have 'difficult' and 'mad' parents, but there is a vast range in what sort of difficultness and madness they're talking about!

I have no contact with my father and limited contact on my terms with my mother, I am so happy with that.

I spent so much energy in my twenties always thinking first what my parents would think about something - before even wondering what I thought about something! No more.

typo: that should be 'to make an absolute statement, not situation

I agree that I need a mother, just not the one I was born with!

I do acutely feel the loss of having a mother daughter bond, and also a good role model for how to parent.

I've realised recently that I think one of the recurring issues I have in my relationships is that I genuinely don't think people care about me, or will be bothered if I withdraw from them. I haven't got how hurtful that can be to people. I withdraw a lot. As a child I think I spent a lot of time in my bedroom alone. As an adult I still have that urge to hide away

I do allow people to make whatever cosy assumptions they like about my mother. She comes over as sweetly naive and fluffy - and she is; she did do the craft projects, teach me about music and art, read stories, etc - and I don't bother revealing the hidden monster; what purpose would it serve? I talk to ONE friend and counsellors about it, and people on the internet. That's how I get my validation.

I haven't cut contact, I've 'managed' it. I see her less frequently with every passing month. I interact with her public face and pander to her narcissism. It was hard to let go of the illusion that I have a mother who cares about, or even knows, me. When people ask about her, I say "Oh, she's well and as batty as ever, haha."

A lot of this is about respecting other people's right to their own views of the world - including the mad ones - while keeping your own intact. Unfortunately for those from dysfunctional families, that usually means learning to set boundaries from scratch, and doing it in stages. There is great support here, thank goodness.

Garlic you are so wise. I always find that you are several steps ahead of me on the recovery threads for abusive exes / narc parents. But do you really pander to her narcissism, as in provide N supply? Do you not at all follow the route of bringing her up on her nastiness? (not advising you; just want to have an idea of how your "management" goes)

supercal said: I've realised recently that I think one of the recurring issues I have in my relationships is that I genuinely don't think people care about me, or will be bothered if I withdraw from them. I haven't got how hurtful that can be to people. I withdraw a lot. As a child I think I spent a lot of time in my bedroom alone. As an adult I still have that urge to hide away

Yup. I have let so many friendships die because, well, nice people can't possibly mean it when they invite me to stuff, right? At the moment I am trying to change this self-defeating belief by contacting friends as often as I can and making social plans in a way I never have before, and it feels quite bold and dangerous...

Gawd, Puppy, I wish I was wise! Thanks for what you said - it's such a slow, often painful process; I think each of us comes through different parts of it faster than others. I move along more quickly when I'm in therapy: I'm not at the moment, so am relying heavily on Mumsnet

I have had it all out with Mum, in full. Obviously there was no fairytale ending, but at least we both know what I had to say. My aim now is to keep treating her as some narcissistic, elderly woman I know well, but am not especially close to. In that vein, I always compliment her straight away. I deflect any intrusive lines of talk by asking something about herself. When she's got problems, I either offer a practical answer or make sympathetic noises. I refuse to validate her more insane opinions, saying instead "I hear what you're saying but my view is different" - followed by another question about herself

It would drive anyone nuts to have to do that all the time, but it's less than once a week now (hurray!) so it keeps everyone happy. When she's been 'fed' she can be really good company for an hour or so.

I need to follow your lead on friendships. I did quite a bit of good work on Facebook, but an still physically isolating myself.

I tried managing the time spent with my mother but it didn't work for us. It became bearable, but when she started trying to twist DD's mind against me, that was the last straw. It's been 16 weeks since we've seen her last. I'm lucky that DP is very understanding, and so are my friends, but again they've been in similar situations.

I know my mum has painted an awful picture of me for anyone who will listen. And that's fine by me as I'm quite happy concentrating on my life with DD and DP.

Plus I keep thinking I only have just under 2 weeks left to avoid my mum who is off during the holidays as well, so I'm doing well!

No idea still how to manage mine.
Mum isn't outwardly controlling and not demanding at all..just disinterested. In my whole life I can't remember her saying I'd done well or giving me any kind of compliment, ever, she just points things out that are wrong with me.

My dad... would happily put me down to anyone who would listen.. and I would say is very narcissistic..

Bear1984 that's awful...no wonder you had no choice but to just stay away

babyhammock, tbh it's something I should have done sooner, but least I've gotten to this point eventually. She still tries to make me feel guilty and saying I'm depriving DD from seeing her, but I think DD has mentioned her all of 3 times since we last saw her. My mum wants me to put everything behind us, but that's always been her thing, sweeping everything under the carpet and just ignore it...

My parents are the same. I've made some huge changes over the past couple of years, including starting my own business, but my mum concentrates on the negatives and I don't remember the last time she gave me praise.

Bear1984 - I don't see my father for the same reason you don't see your mother.

I must admit that I balked in horror when I realised that garlicbutter's version of not seeing her mother so regularly anymore was under once a week . I see my mother once every 5 weeks or so! But everyone's situation is different. I think the trick is to find what arrangement you can come to where you aren't spending so much mental energy feeling angry at your parents on a present day basis (as opposed to anger now and then for what they did in the past), and getting very stressed about seeing them.

For me, that is not seeing my father ever, and having my mother over to mine for a few hours to see my kids once every month or less. I am able to manage this with my mother because I have had it out with her, and she knows what my terms are. She is polite and friendly to me and it is manageable.

yy to lots of negativity in the past. Funnily enough, since laying down the law with my mother, she is much more complimentary to me. She has changed her behaviour - it is my father who is the true narc. He still tries on his crap at every opportunity, which is why I still see her and not him.

When I lived in London I only saw her twice a year or so - but it was for longer. Now I'm only 5 miles from her, thanks to her own machinations, she'd taken to dropping by unexpectedly almost every day. She has to ring to arrange her visits now.

sweeping under the carpet... yup!
About a year ago, I really tried to have it out with them (more about my dad tbh as I know even my mum thinks he narcisistic). But my mum, after fleetingly agreeing with me about how damaging he was, all but refused to talk to me about it. I even wrote a letter, but nothing. If I say anything to my mum about her never saying anything nice..ever... all she says is 'everyone makes mistakes'... never 'of course I think nice stuff' or anything like that...

I didn't really realise how crappy it was until I had DS and then realised how they feel about me and my brother couldn't be further from how I feel about him.