"But we took you to Statley Homes" Dysfunctional Families Thread

[Snowdropfairy]

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
November 2010

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

I think I'm in the right place now, thanks garlicbutter - I need some stately homes peeps advice, please!

For the last 8 months, I have successfully managed to maintain distant, 'in writing only' contact with my parents and sister after 12 months of no contact at all.

The background is that I struggle to accept their choice to support my exH during separation/divorce and their continued active inclusion of him as a member of their family (by which I mean that exH, his new girlfriend and DD go to stay with them for holidays and they have weekly skype contact).

I also struggle with the fact that my exH uses his continued relationship with my parents/sister to justify his actions when we disagree - 'well, your Mum says....' kind of thing. He continues to refer to my family in conversation/emails - such as 'congratulating me' on becoming an auntie again after my sister had her daughter recently. I'm sure he only does it to remind me that he has a better relationship with them than he does.

My exH has now started involving DD10 in this; only 20 mins after drop-off today, DD texted me asking if I was buying a gift for my BIL birthday or whether she and her dad should buy one when they were out. ExH and I agreed ages ago that we would facilitate DD buying gifts for our own families but not each others - obviously, that has changed.

I realise that my issue is exH behaviour, not that of my parents and sister, but they made it crystal clear before contact initially ceased between us that they intended to maintain contact with exH and it was my choice if I couldn't deal with it

Is it time to end contact with them once and for all - and if so, should I write to them explaining why? I have already adopted a low contact approach with exH - which I assume is why he is now involving DD to subtly remind me on a regular basis that he and my parents are still close - I don't know what to do about that either

Hello! :)

Blimey, that's horrible for you! You're no longer married to him but your parents are?! I'm guessing he's a manipulative git, so is using his friendship with your family against you - and probably wouldn't be all that interested in them just for themselves?

So, yes, he's behaving like an arse - and being VERY unfair to use DD - but your parents are massively at fault also. They can't possibly love him more than you, so they must be playing some sort of manipulative politics here. It's not even as if they're trying (wrongly) to bring you back together, since they've embraced his girlfriend, so this is all about showing you how much you [don't] matter to them. Is that how you feel?

Going by what you've written, I'm afraid your only sane response would be to divorce them, at least for as long as they're married to your ex ... Which leaves lots of issues about DC wide open.

Please post more. I'm sorry you've all this crap to deal with.

Thanks GB

My exH has always been very dependent on family - his own mum comes from a big, extended family who have been a big part of his life, and he seems to find it difficult to let go of relationships/friendships even when they have run their course.

I get the feeling that exH and my mum are 'kindred spirits'; not something that was apparent during our marriage (in fact, exH was quite critical of them) but both exH and mum seem to gain something from the long phone calls and emails they exchange!

I did feel very let down by my mum when I was going through the separation - I remember one phone call in which I was crying and getting upset and my mum burst intimidate and told me not to do this to her! She also told me in one phone call that exH parents were offering her a lot of support - they had only met a handful of times while exH and i were married and had nothing in common!

It's almost as if the ending of the marriage improved the relationship between my family and that of my exH - huh?

in to tears - not intimidate - damn autocorrect !

Ah, so you were distraught and she made it all about her. Why am I not surprised??! :(

It sounds like your ex and your mum are feeding each other's self-importance for now. I'd bet the long emails are all about how great they are and how crap you are. If it's any comfort to hear, it won't last - one of them will get tired of adoring the other, then it'll all go pear-shaped.

How possible is it to consider yourself well out of it, and fade out of their self-loving lives, at least for the medium term? I think you'll find yourself feeling much calmer & more able to cope.

So glad i hav found this thread, all sounds so familiar.

My mum has really bad anger issues, my dad just sits there saying nothing.

Worst thing is i hear her in me now...whenever i get angry, i sound just like her. Dont know how to stop. Luckily dnt have kids, i wouldnt want someone to suffer like that cos of me.

I hope im ok to post here, even though can be as horrile as our parents were to us.

Good luck, Velvet and enjoy these precious times.
Thinking of you.

(and thanks for your help, too)

Wow, NotADisneyMum...umm...sorry, but the first thing that popped in my mind was: So is your exh sleeping with your Mom?

I think GarlicButter is right. For your own sanity, exit this dynamic.

For any competitive parenting/baiting, I would just respond to dd with 'so'-or 'that's fine but we're doing this way'. Just be dismissive. I know it is hard and it is what the emotional abusers do to us. But sometimes we really ought to take a page out of their playbook and go with it and this sounds like it is definitely one of those times.

It is not you, it is them who are at fault here. You do not deserve this one bit.

Hi, yellow. I'm sorry to hear your mum's angry and your dad let you down. It's easy to say "Don't hate yourself" for replaying your mother's scripts, but a little bit harder to get to that point! Have you done any counselling/therapy over it yet?

Keep posting when you're ready :)

Thanks for the welcome. Have done therapy, twice, feel a little better for it, but sometimes feel the hurt is too deep, that it will never go away. I can't think straight at the moment, no idea who I can trust.

Why can't you trust anyone? Has something happened?

TeachMySelf - funnily enough, when I was typing it, I was wondering how my Dad feels about exH relationship with Mum, it does seem a bit too close to be comfortable. Dad is one of those "silent types"; Mum has always represented "their" opinion and views to me, he's not said anything to me himself, really

The latest development is that DD, exH and new partner are no longer going to stay with my parents this week (DD told me just before she left for her dads house on Friday). Apparently, my Mum is too ill for them to visit. Not sure why DD need to be told that (especially while she was still here); unless of course, her Dad anticipated that she would tell me.....?

God, I hate the absence of closure in relationships with the dysfunctional.

How do I get to the point where I can accept that whether I confront my parents or not they never will get it. Only I can "get it". And that just doesn't seem like enough to me.

puppy - I feel exactly the same way; I know I need to move on, but I just can't seem to accept that they don't get it, so keep going over and over it trying to think of ways that might, finally, bring that realisation to them - I know thats not ever going to happen, so why can't I move on?

Now you've realised this, you will find a way :) It's the old 'anxious child' hanging in there - an ingrained habit, if you like. This is where self-parenting comes in handy, though people find other ways past it as well. Basically, you're now aware they're incapable - so the remaining block is the one made of your emotional needs, which you know they are unable to meet.

If telling them how you feel, and why, will help you: go ahead and do it.
Or try writing letters you will never send? I wrote pages of 'dialogue' with my dead father; it really helped me come to terms with his twisted world-view.

Why do I keep setting myself up for rejection?

After DD10's trip to visit my parents & gran (along with exH and his partner) was cancelled, I thought I would try and fit in a day-trip to take DD to visit - so dropped my dad an email.

We've had very limited contact since Xmas (preceded by a year of no contact at all) - and nothing by phone in that time just letter and email, but I took the opportunity to reply to a thank you email he had sent me - suggesting that DD and I make the 200 mile round trip a couple of days before my Grans birthday.

I though it might just be the ice breaker that was needed to re-initiate contact.

I was wrong.

I can fully accept that their reasoning for me and DD not going at short notice is my Gran's failing health - perfectly understandable.

But, my Dads email also suggests that I might want to consider making things easier for DD and plan an overnight stop if we visit. This has really got to me and has made me realise that a big part of the problem I have with them is their repeated implication that I am a crap mother

This came up several times during my separation/divorce - they not only questioned decisions I was making regarding DD, but also referred back to previous occasions when my parenting had upset them

Dad also said in his email that he and Mum would like to "sort out" the differences which have upset me and led to me having infrequent contact with them, and that they do not think that we can move forward by "brushing them under the carpet". Fair enough, but they have been equally limited in their contact; in fact, other than birthday/xmas gifts, I have initiated all contact between us - so I'm aggrieved that the implication is that it is my problem that needs resolving

Not sure what to do now - either write to them setting out my grievances, make contact with a mediation service (either near their home or mine), or just send a one line "I'm sorry you feel that way" in response?

Could your Dad's reply be seen as a positive thing for you, NotDisney? If he himself is stating that things shouldn't be swept under the carpet, you could take him at his word and use this invitation to be upfront about their past actions and how they made you feel, eg. their criticisms of your parenting, and make assertive requests about your needs going forward. If that's something you want to do.

How they'll react to that is up to them of course, but this could be an "in" to speak your mind and state your boundaries.

Of course if you sense that your parents are in fact trying to shame you and control you with this latest request, then your gut instincts are the ones to follow.

puppy I do think that the opportunity to express how I feel about their past behaviour would be very therapeutic - but as for setting boundaries - no, don't think that is a realistic expectation.

In the past, my request for boundaries/restraint on their part has been met with the refrain 'but they're only our opinions' as if I can dismiss them without feeling criticised or a disappointment to them.

My fear is that sending such a letter to them would illicit the expression of more of their 'opinions' - but if I don't, will I regret not taking the opportunity?

Hi NotADisneyMum,
You wrote: 'but they're only our opinions' as if I can dismiss them without feeling criticised or a disappointment to them.

I know it is all very personal and it runs deep deep deep, but there is a clue in that excuse and your feelings about it...

imho

isn't this giving you permission to be an independent thinker- as in take what they say on board, or not, your choice-nothing personal? (But it is personal, I know). Permission to be unaffected by them.

Fwiw, I hate being second guessed. "I have decided to do it this way this time, maybe we can try it that way next time." (Delivered with a smile and micro nods of the head and even squinted eyes. Btw, next time, never comes.)

So you care whether or not you disappoint them. You have my undiluted permission to stop that one right here, right now. No, seriously...you are not 12 any more...if they are disappointed in you at this point, it is their problem and they can get over it themselves. Get yourself a "Don't Care Bear" not that you are 12 or anything .

"...without feeling criticized..." This is harder. And it is hard to not feel attacked and it is hard to get beyond the physical reaction-I would feel tightness in my chest and throat like I lost the ability to speak. Do you feel criticized because you have been doubted so much that you have been trained to doubt yourself!? Isn't that awful?

Find some self-confidence. You are competent and capable. Their opinion is like a "puff of smoke in the wind" (Elizabeth Gaskell paraphrased quote, North and South) and their coments should drift right by you, not into you. This isn't necessarily dismissiveness, but closer to the concept of indifference.

It is nice that he has an opinion. But you know what they say about opinions, right? They are like assholes, everyone has one.

You are indifferent to the fact that everyone has an asshole, (I hope ) so you can also be indifferent to the fact that everone has an opinion. Yes, even if it is your parents' opinions. Use what you can (helpful stuff), lose the rest (crap).

Your dad has an asshole; he is an asshole-the distinction can be blurred and you can train yourself to interchange your indifference at will.

Hth , and, just so you know, I didn't start out this essay with assholes in mind. It is really hard to make these sorts of disconnections from people that are supposed to love, nurture, and care for you.

Hi all, can I join in?

Had physically and emotionally abusive parents, they abused me but not my brother, I was the black sheep even though on paper I was far from it, etc, etc.

Have minimal contact with my mother and none with my father. An OK relationship with my brother - will never be v close because our childhood experiences were so different and he doesn't see my parents as I do.

I am feeling v lonely at the moment, and angry with my parents for fucking me up so much. I feel I am incapable of maintaing a good healthy relationship, with either my husband or a friend. I have screwed up a(nother) close female friendship recently, when what i crave most is a strong, close female bond. Go figure.

I have had therapy. It really helped, but I feel I am still sabotaging relationships when they get close, and that I have screwed up my whole life (I'm late 30s) by not having closer friendships. I spend a lot of time really envying other people for their lives.

Am currently having psychotherapy with my DH and just can't afford any individual, so am I coming here to say help me find some solace please!!

Hi, regular poster but name-changed, I wondered if I could join in? I apologise for how long this is but I'm going to post it anyway and you can feel free to read or not, but it was therapeutic for me to just write it... Having read some of your stories I'm not sure I deserve to be here, so I apologise for this too if you feel I don't.

My brother is 2 years older than me, he's 36. He has never got over my birth (jealousy wise) and my parents are still trying to make it up to him. He's a strange character, never had a girlfriend, has few friends, can't hold down a job, doesn't wash, very disrespectful of our parents and their house and property. He still lives in our birthtown (own house) where my parents also live. He has had long periods of not speaking to me throughout our lives. I am very compliant and hate confrontation and my whole life has been fraught with atmosphere (my dad is similar to my brother in respect of sulking and grudge-bearing). I still walk on eggshells around my dad and my brother.

My parents continually make allowances for my brother's behaviour and 'pander' to him. I believe they are scared of him - when we were children it was easier to blame me for the things that he did wrong as it made them feel better to dole out the punishment even if it was to the wrong child, and it meant they didn't have to deal with him. There are a lot of examples of injustices in my childhood, not all of them centred around my brother - many of them are down to my dad who would sulk with me for weeks for a perceived slight. I was the scapegoat - there was much "taking the mick" out of me to grease the social dynamics of the family, I was ganged up on by them and told to get a sense of humour if I got upset about it. I can't say there was significant physical abuse but I was hit (smacked on the legs and bottom) by both parents until I was 16, and my brother bullied and overpowered me. My dad had no regard for my personal space and would walk into my bedroom without knocking. My mum refused to speak up for me about this even though she knew it upset me, and I was too scared of his sulking to do so for myself.

When I met DH I moved 200 miles from home due to his job, which has had many benefits, the main one being that I don't have to be involved in the day to day atmospheres, false-blaming, and all the general emotional crap that falls out of their lives. I have been with DH for 10 years and he has single-handedly made me realise that my parents treatment of me is not normal and that I didn't deserve it. I have lots of issues wrt not wanting to upset people, constantly thinking people are upset/sulking with me, fear of being disliked, lots of guilt, very little confidence. I don't have many friends because I am terrified of rejection, and often assume I have done something wrong or to upset people, so I avoid the confrontation as I don't want to fall out, but then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as they ultimately get fed up of me and my weirdness.

We are expecting DC1 (my parent's first and possibly only GC) later this year. My parents are now considering moving house and some of the places they are looking at are only 2-bedroomed (they currently have 3), which will make it even harder for us to go visit once our child is a bit older. They say they can't afford anything bigger in the town where they live, but they refuse to move out of that town because my brother needs them and they are all he has. My brother now holidays with my parents, for example, and he eats most meals there and also uses their internet/phone. He essentially still behaves like a teenager (treating the place like a hotel) but happens to have his own home. Additionally they have said they have "no positive reason to live anywhere else", which both DH and I raised our eyebrows at - it's not that I think they should move closer to us (nor would I particularly want them to), it's more that it seemed like they were rubbing it in my face that I'm one they care least about. Today during a conversation about having a 2nd child my mother intimated they'd only had me as company for my brother, and that they were wrong to assume that we'd get on because we didn't (cue pointed looks). The reason we don't get on is because he was allowed to treat me like crap...

In a way I think they WANT him to need them, and they're doing him no favours by continually giving in to his whims. I also believe he would be mortified if he knew they were only staying in the town because of him (for all his faults, he's not completely unreasonable). I'm trying to get past caring about their desperate need to make him happy, but it's tragic because I don't believe he will ever be happy regardless of them, and they'll only make themselves more unhappy in the process. I have numerous guilt trips laid on me about how they will never see their only GC, but I believe this is down to them - if they make it difficult for us to go see them because they move to a smaller house to suit themselves and my brother, then I don't see how I can be held to blame for the fact we can't go stay with them. They know they are welcome at ours any time but they complain of the 4 hour journey and they don't like to be away from my brother for too long . I can't win, and whatever I do isn't enough. When I told them I was pg my mum's immediate reaction was "when are you having a 2nd one?".

The disparity between how they treat me and how they treat my brother is glaring. Why are they so desperate to make him happy, but seem to enjoy making me feel bad? When I've ventured to mention it, or other examples from my childhood, they deny it or gloss over it - like they don't want to face the fact that they were less than adequate parents to me. They'll joke "oh yes you had such a terrible life with your middle class upbringing and university" (the title of this thread is pretty relevant to me!) but they don't understand my underlying resentment about how I was and am treated, and how much more important that is than any financial input they've given me.

They despair about how much they 'failed' my brother and it's their fault he is like he is, but they never question whether they failed me or not - because I have a husband, a baby on the way, a nice lifestyle, a good job, and I seem 'normal'. Underneath I'm not normal though. I suspect my parents would be happier if I split from DH, moved back to theirs, and fell back in to the weird family politics that go on. I know that if the worst happened and I did split with DH, I would stay exactly where I am because even on my own and with few friends I'd still be happier than I would be if I was around my own family and that makes me feel so sad.

Hello, Judder and Supercal - I'm very sorry you've posted with no reply. The thread had fallen off my active list ... so I'm posting now to put it back on!

I'm too tired to write anything now, but will come back tomorrow - if you're still reading? Hope so, and I hope some lovely posters will respond to you :)

Thanks, garlic

I'm too tired to type anything either right now but hello, and hello to Judder too

We shall converse another day!

Oh dear, my computer crashed three-quarters of the way through a long reply! (It wasn't that long ...)

I think I posted to one of your threads, floofers. I know what you mean about going from "It wasn't that bad" to angry, to feeling helpless against it. Having to be strong, to pretend everything's OK ... it's all that damned Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG,) isn't it? People like that train children - born to trust and love - to deny their own selves, in favour of the abuser's whims. They teach their own children to suffer as required, with the aim of creating their ultimate victim. Always aiming to please, children absorb the lessons until compliance with the abuse - and all the dishonesty, anger, fear and confusion it brings - becomes part of their identity.

What a horrible, horrible thing to do to a child

No wonder it's so hard to face in adulthood. No wonder it feels impossible to shake off the fear and the shame. You've already done the hardest part by acknowledging it, and recognising its impact on your present life. Well done!

I haven't cut mine out completely - I've just faded away. I rarely see them now and, when I do, I interact as you would with a long-term acquaintance. It was harder to do with my mother, who lives nearby. I spent about four months "training" her, with much help from Stately Homers; I felt really mean! I've not been mean to her really, but it felt that way. I sent her away when she turned up unannounced, insisting she must call to arrange visits. I said things like "I'm not going to discuss that with you" and refused to justify. I 'fogged' her by changing the subject, answering non-commitally and bringing the conversation back to her favourite topic (herself.) She still tries it on sometimes but, now I treat her as the emotional six-year-old she is, it's not so hard

Some families are so violently insane, the only logical thing to do is cut them out completely. I know of people who've moved house, leaving no farwarding address, just to get away from theirs. That's a perfectly rational thing to do when you've chosen to walk on the healthier side of the street: the others won't understand you anyway, so why not put physical distance between you?

Nobody can "just get over" childhood abuse because it's a very significant part of what formed you - part of your world-view, your character and your mind. There are good books out there. Personally, I couldn't have done it without professional guidance (and I still need more) although these forums are a powerhouse of support.