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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I know I'm in a toxic relationship, but don't know what to do

124 replies

wearynow · 26/03/2011 17:18

namechanged (although used it before)

Feel exhausted, and know we're in danger of severely f*cking up our children (both under 2 at the moment)

Will outline today as briefly as possible, but it's a fairly typical example.

H went running this morning leaving me with the kids. I knew he was going, and he'd hung the washing up first, and made me breakfast, so he wasn't exactly leaving me in the lurch.

He was at work for the rest of the morning (this was unforseen, but fairly typical).
I asked him if he minded me going out for a run or something later. He said that yes, he "minded", but I should go. (WTF??!!)
I said I didn't think it was unreasonable to ask to get away for an hour later as he'd been running, had been into work, and would be away all tomorrow morning as well (running again).
But he just said it was a "loaded question" asking if he "minded" if I go??!

We both took the 2 DC swimming, but for one reason or another, he ended up in the house before me, which meant I was carrying the 2 DC into the house. On the way, DC1 fell over bang! smack on his face, so I picked him up along with DC2, carried them both to the house, and yelled (yes I guess I did yell, I was in a panic) at H to come and get DC2.

I didn't give a reason, and I did yell, but I just wanted to see to DC1 and not leave DC2 unattended. I guess H didn't know any of this and just heard me yell. Because of this, he ambled to the door... basically to make a point that I shouldn't speak to him (yell at him) like that.

And it was all downhill from there. I was angry at him for trying to make a point and failing to understand that I was just panicking, not thinking about how I spoke to him. He just kept telling me I shouldn't order him around, I was "in a bad mood" etc etc
We ended up shouting at each other.
In front of DC1.

I went upstairs to clean the bathroom, leaving him with the 2 DC. He came and told me he "needed to work". I said that I needed to clean the bathroom, we have 2DC, one of us has to look after them while doing what we need to do, and what did he think I do all week? A few minutes later, they were both screaming, and H was shouting at DC1 for poking DC2 in the eye.

I came down, took DC2, and put him down for a nap. Came downstairs and H was reading the paper. DC1 was (IMO) so obviously beyond tired... but H wasn't doing anything about it (DC1 won't nap in cot any more, so I just take him for a 10 minute walk and he drops off. H knows this). So I said to DC1 that we should go for a walk. It was difficult enough as it was persuading a tired DC1 that he should come, but H then kept interrupting me to ask if UI wanted him to do it... but not offering... just insisting I ask. I said I wasn't going to beg him to do something for his own son, and went out.

When I came back, H was still reading the paper.
I told him that, when I'd asked to do something that morning, that was wrong; when I'd just told him to do something, that was wrong, when I didn't say anything about what I thought needed doing, thyat was wrong... and when I just got on and did it myself, that was wrong, too.

Both DC were asleep, so we could've talked, but he just ignored me.

It basically culminated in my trying to avoid any more conflict by heading out with the DC, but he wouldn't let me, blocked my way, said I shouldn't go in the car, and that we should do things as a family. I didn't want to fall out again in front of DC, so said I'd take them in the pushchair. He said I shouldn't go out, we should talk.
I said I tried earlier and didn't want to do it in front of the DC, I would talk later. He said I should talk now.
Can't remember all the ins and outs of this bit. At one point, I left the house because I was crying and didn't want the DC to see. H yelled out at me that I was irresponsible and walking away from "2 crying babies"

He then went to take the DC out himself (!) but DC2 screamed so much, he brought him home (he's EBF still). He told me in a really reasonable voice that he was leaving DC2 with me, taking DC1 to playpark, and did I want to go with them. ???

God! sorry! long. And so ridiculous. Just needed to write it down as much as anything. Get it out. We don't do this every week or anything. But it's certainly not un-typical....

Is there any hope? I've asked to go to counselling before. He won't. He won't even let me go on my own without a big fight, and I just can't be bothered with it.

OP posts:
ShortArseFuck · 26/03/2011 21:33

Please please please listen to the excellent advice you have had on this thread.

Talk to your GP, talk to Women's Aid, talk to the CAB

This is quite possibly the hardest post I have ever written on here.

It will never get any better and he will never change.

Do not spend the next 20 years bending yourself out of shape to do things right, letting yourself (and the DC's) be "punished" for unacceptable behaviour.

If you want to PM me please do - my married life was like yours 20 years ago and I would move mountains to stop even one person going through what I did.

freshmint · 26/03/2011 21:33

Not sure why he is the abusive one, they sound as bad as each other and bear in mind we are hearing her side here.
They are as abusive as each other by the sounds of it. He is giving as good as he gets

She sounds like a pain in the bum TBH but I understand that may be because you have 2 under 2 and are knackered

wearynow · 26/03/2011 21:34

thanks, both of you.
just.... thanks :)

"What would it mean to have married the wrong person and had children with him ? "

yes... that's what I'm pondering.

Off to bed now, so... thanks. Good to know WA there, becasue I have sometimes wondered who I could talk to if it came to it.

(and thanks for the hug :) )

OP posts:
ShortArseFuck · 26/03/2011 21:35

Freshmint - he is manipulating the situation.

He isn't pulling his weight.

He is gaslighting, and manoevering the OP into situations where she is shouldering all the work and blame for what happens.

Have you read the Lundy Bancroft book?

flippinpeedoff · 26/03/2011 21:37

freshmint, luckily for you you haven't got a bloody clue what you're talking about.

wearynow · 26/03/2011 21:39

Oh! I am going to bed.. but just wanted to say fair (blunt!) comment to freshmint!
You have only heard my side of it, and I can be a total, screechy, competitive pain in the arse!

So this is why I am reading all this and trying to take it all onboard. From all viewpoints.
Whoever is at "fault" or not at fault... I'm trying to work out how to sort it out for the best.

OP posts:
NimpyWindowmash · 26/03/2011 21:40

shortArseFuck - sounds like you are projecting your own experiences onto the OP, who you know very little about. I'm sorry that you had an abusive relationship in your past, but you can't possibly know that it will never get any better for the OP.

LittleMissHissyFit · 26/03/2011 21:40

Grin Thanks for that flippin, I hadn't the energy myself!

[highfive]

wearynow · 26/03/2011 21:40

Right! really am going to bed.
Thanks everyone... and will do some reading tomorrow.

:)

OP posts:
Patienceobtainsallthings · 26/03/2011 21:42

"THE OPPOSITE OF ABUSE IS RESPECT" (quote from Lundy Bancroft book)
Do u feel respected by this man ?
Do u feel you have equal rights in this relationship?

ShortArseFuck · 26/03/2011 21:42

NimpyWindowmash - you know nothing about my experiences either.

And I can tell you from experience that abusive men never change.

I am not projecting.

I read the OP I read how her DH behaved towards her and I gave advice based on my experience.

There is a difference.

freshmint · 26/03/2011 21:42

The man does breakfast, cleans up, jogs, works all morning, takes the kids swimming and he is an evil abuser because he doesn't leap when she screams (unnecessarily) about her son tripping up?

She admits she was angry and shouted at him again. Then the bloke says "look, I really need to work" and she shrieks that she needs to clean the bathroom, look how awful my life is, I have to do this all week you know. By this time the guy realises he can't do anything right and sits down to read the paper and stay the fuck out of it.

She comes down, farts around taking the kid out, he says "look, let me take him" but because she doesn't like the tone of his voice ("he says that but doesn't ASK me") so he gives up and sits in the corner with his paper feeling rejected and hoping she calms down.

She comes back, starts flouncing out with the kids, starts putting them in the car and saying "I'm going out!!". He says "look, why can't we have a nice day as a family?" but she goes bananas, screams at him, upsets the kids, and flounces out with him saying "great, leave me with two screaming kids why don't you"

See? Two sides to every story. She sounds loony and he sounds put-upon, to me

TheCowardlyLion · 26/03/2011 21:44

I agree with orangeeyebrows. Certainly from your OP, I would say the problems between you are a two way thing.

All this exhaustive diagnosing of whether the relationship is abusive or not... Why are you asking him if he minds you going for a run? Why does he have to 'let' you go to counselling? Go running. Go for counselling. If he stops you, then you have your answer as to whether he is abusive. But at the moment, you just sound like two tired people sniping at each other.

LittleMissHissyFit · 26/03/2011 21:45

Nimpy, men who deliberately saunter towards their own hurt screaming toddler to score a point againt their wives, then disavow all responsibility for any of it are abusive. There literally is NO other way to call it.

Abusive men are not normal, they don't see what they are doing is in any way wrong.

They can't be reasoned with, they can't be negotiated with, no matter what you say, or do. They are never wrong. They will, and indeed cannot ever change.

So yes, actually SAF CAN possibly know that staying in a relationship with a man that is as seethingly abusive as to ignore his own baby in pain/distress, will never get any better.

LittleMissHissyFit · 26/03/2011 21:46

"See? Two sides to every story. She sounds loony and he sounds put-upon, to me"

And you sound whacked out on 1950s Valium!

Happy travels! Grin

freshmint · 26/03/2011 21:47

you are silly little miss hissy

the kid fell over. next to his mum. why should he rush to the situation? clearly the kid was neither dead nor dying and we can all tell a cross scream from a scream in pain, can't we?

Or do you PREFER to think he is an abuser so you can rescue OP? Does that float your boat?

TheCowardlyLion · 26/03/2011 21:47

I thought he hadn't heard the child crying, according to the OP?

freshmint · 26/03/2011 21:47

??
60 year old valium?

nutter

LittleMissHissyFit · 26/03/2011 21:47

I love Patience! I have her entire collection of Fridge magnets! Wink Grin

NimpyWindowmash · 26/03/2011 21:48

Read the OP. The H did not know a child had fallen over, just heard her yelling.

freshmint · 26/03/2011 21:48

well exactly lion

there are a load of people on here who just LOVE to scream "ABUSE" because it makes them feel good

schadenfreude.

doesn't make it so.

dignified · 26/03/2011 21:50

She sounds loony and he sounds put-upon, to me

And you sound abusive yourself with the capacity to read what you want , choosing not to read the bit about the screaming tired child he was ignoring or him stopping her going out. If thats normal in your life then i feel sorry for you.

wearynow · 26/03/2011 21:51

argh!! must go to bed

okay... yes freshmint... loony is perhaps a little harsh, but I definitely see that side of it. And it does make the point well that you've only heard my side of the story!
para1: yes.... accurate.
para 2: erm... possibly accurate. I do resent him at times. I was trying to make a point, I guess (as I said earlier)
para 3: no... at that point he was being (IMO) deliberately akward...
para 4: yes... maybe that IS what was going on. That's what I'm trying to work out.

(sorry for the para thing... probably makes me appear even more ofa loon. But just an easier way for me to reply)

And the comment about us not liking each other. Yes, sometimes it is a bit like that, I guess. But not all the time! And we are both knackered!!...

OP posts:
freshmint · 26/03/2011 21:52

not normal in my life, no

neither his reactions nor hers

they sound dog-tired and pissed off with each other, no more.

if saying that is abusive then, yes, I see where all you abuse-screeching nutters are coming from Hmm. clearly anyone who doesn't agree with you is an abuser, oh yes, jolly good, you sound sane

LittleMissHissyFit · 26/03/2011 21:54

I can't rescue a soul, none of us can freshmint.

I stand by everything I say, I know I'm right and I know you ought to be back in the 1950s, knowing your place, and liking it.

Normal fathers go to the aid of their children. OP said too that there was no way he didn't hear his baby crying and he didn't go to help.

Read the bloody thread FGS, it's all there.

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