am I too sensitive?

[Weissbier]

I'm going mad because two things are really making me miserable in my relationship and I don't know if it's me, or him :(

He's not personally mean like "you're fat" or whatever, but it seems like whatever I say, there has to be some sort of opposition or discussion. If I open a window, he tells me it would be better to air the room with them wide open and then shut them again; if I say "let's pick up the prescription at this chemist we're just going past now" he'll say we should go to another (aren't they all the same?). I have to cut the butter a certain way, we're each allowed four coathangers on the coatstand and he comments immediately if I forget and put one on the wrong side. If I'm cooking something he comes and adjusts the pan so it sits better on the flame. One bathroom door should always be shut, the other always open (something to do with humidity and mould, this). I sat down to eat something I'd cooked just for me (he wasn't hungry) the other day and he said "did you remember to salt the water?". Every time I say something related to DD he has to look it up on the internet or speak to a doctor / another parent before believing me. I understand why he would sometimes want to do this but is it a bit weird never to be able to say "OK" or "fine"...? I end up buying things for DD with my own money rather than our joint account to avoid the discussion about why did I buy two dummies, did she need them, what make, he wants to look up on the internet if that was a good make, etc etc etc.

Also, the way he talks to me is driving me crazy. He swears it isn't personal and I'm oversensitive so maybe I am. But practically everything I say is replied to with "that's what you say", "only you say that", "just because you think" or "it's not true, what you say". It's really getting me down. I remarked today that DD always kicks her socks off and will soon be too big for babygros and he said "just because you don't like wearing tights, doesn't mean she can't". But of course it doesn't! Why didn't he just say "she can wear tights"...? I bought her some tights ages ago, they are in her clothes basket...

They are small things and if they happened occasionally I wouldn't even notice but it's constant! Or do I need to get over myself?

When I try to explain to him why I find "that's what you say" etc demoralising he rolls his eyes, says he has no idea how he should say anything so I will be happy and is sarcastic, kicks doors etc. I just can't seem to get it across to him why it upsets me which is making me wonder if I really am crazy?

He's a loving father, supportive of my work and he pulls his weight with DD and I don't want to split up with him over household rules and turns of phrase :( . How can I solve this? I've tried just to ignore it but it doesn't work, every three days I end up in tears with it.

Sorry, bit long, had to get all that off my chest. . I'd be really grateful for advice, including YRBU if that is what I am!!!

Funny Madonna I used to wonder that about XH. I don't know whether in his case it came from being eldest son, mother who worshipped him and he genuinely believes that he is better than everyone else and his mother would bow to his superior knowledge all the time?

I used to tie myself up in knots to make sure I was doing everything in the proper approved manner.

I swear I used to think he would write a manual! I didn't turn the car in the drive the right way, I didn't have a bath the right way, I didn't hoover the right way, I didn't fuel the fire the right way, I didn't do anything right.

I am sad I put up with it for so long. But he isolated me from my friends and I got sucked in to his sense of normal if that makes any sense?

Oh dear.

He's controlling in the worst possible way.... he slights you and then tells you he isn't WHY he's doing it. He's also aggressive. Not good at all.

He has issues. Counselling for him? For the two of you together?

I used to live with someone who was verbally abusive to me and would then turn it around on me and say "I tell you this for your own good". No, he was telling me because it made him feel superior. He also made me believe that it was "normal" and that anyone else I was with would "be the same" with me. FOR MY OWN GOOD.

It was horse shit.

Does he even like you?

You're an adult, ffs. Surely you hace earned the right to make decisions for yourself?
I couldn't live like this. Can you? And if not, you must make it very plain that you both need to sit down and work out a way through this. It's passed the "normal" stage.
Pamphlet? Good grief!

itsnotgoingwell my ex had a real thing about the way I changed the bedding. The uncovered pillows and duvet wasn't allowed to touch the floor or the 'soiled' bedding that had just been taken off the bed. So I ended up having to do this elaborate bed making routine that involved balancing all the pillows and the duvet on a chair in the bedroom (no other surfaces to put it on other than the floor, which was a no no). It was just insane.

Also, he used to do quite a lot of DIY and if he ever cut himself and got a bit of blood on his t-shirt or something, he would spit on the stain and rub it in, saying as he did it: "It's much better to put saliva on bloodstains because saliva has special enzymes in it that break down the proteins..." blah blah blah.

OK, nothing wrong with that per se, but he used to say it EVERY time it happened. EVERY time! Each time as if I'd never heard it before and should be grateful to be the recipient of such generous and heretofore unknown information.

My throat clenches shut in rage every time I think about it.

Anyway, one of the biggest lightbulb moments I had while reading the Lundy Bancroft book was where it said that men like this get a kick out of telling you what to do and creating the imbalance of power in their favour. That's how you know it's not going to change, and that's why each time you alter your behaviour to the way he likes it, he then picks on something else to have a go at you about. It's not about you changing things to make him happy; there will never be a time when he says, 'yep, I'm happy with the way you do everything now, I'm going to stop the criticism now'. He thrives off manipulating you.

So, madonna, I'm guessing you never suggested to him that he changed the sodding sheets himself?

WHY do we tolerate this stuff? Glad he's now your ex, anyway.

clam madonna my H went mad about a bedsheet issue. I needed to take our baby's temperature, she was ill with bronchitis, and we're in Germany where you always take a baby's temperature...rectally. So I got the thermometer, washed it like he says to (not sure I would bother myself as it's washed after use and in a clean case, and I would be more inclined to think the washing could affect the reading maybe but anyway), he told me to put cream on it (which I had forgotten, is true) and then I went to, er, administer it to our screaming, wriggling baby on my knee. Suddenly I heard him shout "what on earth are you DOING?" and I had no idea what the problem was. It turned out I had let the thermometer brush against the bedsheet I was sitting on, and he thought this would be unhygenic for our daughter given where it was about to go. But he lets her suck the bedsheet (which isn't dirty anyway, I do wash the sheets...)! To which he said "yes, but I can't do anything about her oral phase [?]. I just try to prevent contact with these germs as much as possible."

I said but er the nappy rash cream we put on her bum will have just as many germs...and he acted surprised and said thought it came from a tube, I said er well at the moment I've been using one in a tub...

And when I said, why did you have to talk to me like that, I didn't realise it had hit the sheet, you could say "ooh hang on Weissbier, the thermometer just brushed etc etc"? And he said: "I can't understand why you don't care about the subject, itself, and hygiene regarding DD".

Yet at the same time - he remarks when I change the sheets that from his perspective it was unnecessary...

Oh god I know that script so, so well. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt...

He won't change OP. You either need to accept that and learn to live with it, or figure out what your other options are.

Like I said, he thrives of this power dynamic so nothing you ever do will make it stop because he likes it this way.

madonna so why does he get so upset about how I present him as a control freak? He says "you portray me as this mean, household Nazi who can do no right and is always horrible to you". If that's how he feels, of course he is upset. I've tried telling him I know he doesn't mean it badly but most human beings would find it wearing to live with ...

I don't know! My ex used to say the same thing. I'd tell him about his behaviour and how it made me feel and he would just twist it round and say "but these things you're describing, they make me sound like some kind of monster and you know that's not true". And then I'd get all flustered and be like, "well, yes I know you're not a monster but i sometimes feel...", and then he'd say, "well why are you trying to make out like I'm such a bad person when you know I'm not?", and then I would just give up because I felt so muddled.

The right answer to him of course was "yes, actually, you are a monster", but I guess neither of us were able to deal with what the consequences of acknowledging that were IYSWIM?

Weissbier I think you need to get tougher. Hes ground you down. The correct answer to him saying "you portray me as this mean, household Nazi who can do no right and is always horrible to you" is
" thats because you act like a mean, household Nazi and are always horrible to me"

I don't think explaining anything is going to make him see. You are going to have to start standing up for yourself and saying tough, I am a parent and a grown up too and some things I will do MY way.

Weissbier - Your life with him sounds AWFUL.
Get help, or leave. He will grind you down. He clearly hates the way you do EVERYTHING and thinks he's compromising by only mentioning half of it to you.
This is NOT normal adult behaviour and I would be worried about his temper.

Yes madonna ISWYM. I've found a male counsellor - think H will be more likely to listen to a guy. But deep down I was taken aback by how cold he was when I really tried to explain all this to him and I'm not sure he'll change either. In which case I should think it would be better to leave before DD is old enough to remember what happened - I've got a responsibility to her.

I'm worried about the table-thumping, kicking, aggression etc. I screwed up all my courage and says it makes me alarmed you might hit me, and he said all coldly "I'm not going to hit you. I've never hit a woman". Better than saying what a good idea of course, but...maybe he was so appalled by the idea he couldn't answer any other way and I shouldn't have brought it up. Overdramatic probably.

He doesn't need to hit you (yet), he's intimidating enough.

My ex was never physically aggressive. He could explode verbally but he was never physical or kicked doors or anything. I find it especially worrying that your H seems to be able to push the envelope of physical aggression all too frequently.

There's a lot to be said for the broken record technique. You tell him something he does that makes you feel bad and ask him not to do it any more. He says "you're making me out to be a monster". You repeat that the thing he does makes you uncomfortable and you are asking him not to do it. He says "you're always having a go at me". You say, the thing he does is not acceptable to you and you are firmly requesting that he does not do it any more. He says "well it makes me mad when you [thing you do that annoys him]". You say you are sorry he does not like that thing you do, and that you don't like that thing he does and he will oblige you by not doing it.

Do not start justifying his complaints about you. Just keep going until he runs out of different directions to turn the conversation. Knackering though.

I would say with all the nice things the OP describes her H as doing, which are a hell of a lot nicer than most men about whom their spouses can only bleat "he's a great Dad [when he's sober] and the kids love him" - all these good points, as I say, he would be worth persevering with in the hope he will give up the relentless negativity. The pushing into your one little bit of me-space, trying to claim it for his stuff, indicates this definitely is a control thing rather than OCD or overdone rationality, but this too could be nipped in the bud. The one thing that does sound rather disturbing, though, is the way he turns violent on inanimate objects when he's questioned. It's indicative of someone who either is not entirely rational or is holding massive anger in check which he generally lets out with apparantly good-humoured criticism, when what he would really like to be doing is stabbing these scissors into your head... it's like one of those horrid films with the nice husband who is really a psycho killer with just these little tell-tale signs, which the wife barely notices but the audience knows better because the spooky music warns them. Maybe I watch too many movies.

I tell you what's a good book, www.amazon.com/Sheeps-Clothing-Understanding-Dealing-Manipulative/dp/096516960X. The concept of covert aggression seems strongly relevant here.

Cross-posted with you, Weissbier, and as Zikes says - he doesn't need to actually hit you to get the message across. Maybe it's just an act. I hope it's just an act.

Gosh Annie I'm feeling a bit scared now. In some ways I'm scared of confronting him I suppose because of the anger it unleashes and I think, what will he do? I remember when DD was first born I got very nervous when she wasn't with me and I asked him to take his mobile phone when he went on a walk with her. He agreed and that was fine. He also answers his phone, he's always been good like that. But I used to ask him each time if he had it, because he'd often not have it and he'd have to go and get it. And then he said "one day, I'm going to take her out without my phone and come back late just to show you how much you always asking me about my phone annoys me."

I can see why my asking was annoying and I stopped doing it. But it's a bit of a scary threat, isn't it? It's not constructive and it doesn't acknowledge why I was asking, normal feelings in a new mother. Makes me think...if we were divorced, what would he do? Would he disappear with DD, not bring her back when he said he would? I couldn't block the contact just because he thumps the table.

He's a cock.

What I think is most likely is that he is pretending to be a vicious angry man exactly so you will wonder what he's going to do. Quite possibly he wouldn't actually do anything. But you don't know. That doesn't sound like a very comfortable way to live.

"one day, I'm going to take her out without my phone and come back late just to show you how much you always asking me about my phone annoys me."

ooh that's not nice! He's suggesting doing something to teach you a lesson which would really, really scare you. Why would someone do this?! Did he mean it?

About the other stuff . . . have you ever tried keeping a record sneekily for a few days of everything he criticises and controls so that you can show him. He might not realise just how constant and overwelming it is.

Anniegetyourgun I like your broken record technique. I need to practise that. Had a row with OH the other night where that could of been helpful!

The broken record technique sounds great in theory but I could never do it in practice.

See the mobile phone thing - my XH used to do that, still does actually.

Take his phone and not answer it if he knew it was me.

For example, the other night he was late to collect the kids and I rang to see where he was - didn't reply.

Eventually turned up 2 hours late and when I said well I didn't know if I was to give tea or what and I might have been going out - he laughed in my face and said "But you never go anywhere"

And he never answers texts either. He won't acknowledge anything that puts us on a smillar level is my theory. So if I text saying (as I did) "Girls not going to church with you this weekend. Too tired. " (Coz that's another thing they have to go to his weird church even on my weekend)

Well he didn't even acknowledge that text. But I know he got it coz he didn't turn up on the Sunday.

It is very very hard to live with men like this though

When I first got together with DP I found it astounding that he didn't care about how much water was in the kettle, that we just DID stuff and there wasn't rules.

Was a real eyeopener

Weissbier I think you must have endless patience to put up with that sort of treatment. It must grind you down so much. I find the comment he made about taking your DD out quite chilling - it was clearly meant as a punishment and a warning which is not the way you should treat someone that you love. TBH it sounds like quite an abusive relationship which I know might sound extreme but if you're very honest do you think you fear him, even a little bit? WRT what you say about divorcing it's clear you don't trust him and find him unpredictable. You need to think about whether this relationship is safe to continue.

Also, something to consider is how he will be with DD when she is older. Can you imagine her growing up in a house where she is constantly criticised? It'll make her very unsure and anxious.

itisnotgoingwelltoday I think I said (at least thought about saying) on a thread you started recently (can't remember what it was called) that you should just go out if he is quite late. Say after about 40 mins just go out. That would show him that your life revolves around him no longer and that he can't piss you around and also he is wrong that you never go anywhere. Let him see that he doesn't have control over you anymore. Wear things he used to hate, get a new haircut (you've already got the new man) and go and do amazing things, and next time he is dismissive of your right to have your own life tell him to go fuck himself. Rant over.

Weissbier What do you think you're going to do?

I can really relate to this post of yours OP:

If I say "I have changed eighteen things in how I clean or tidy the house to please you" he says "yes! And they were all to the good!" I cannot seem to make him understand that even if he is right about the mould / butter / position of my cocoa on the hob...that's not the point! I feel all got at!

MY DH doesn't see his remarks as criticisms, but as comments.

His brothers and parents are like this too - there is ONE way to do things and that is it.

BUT; and this is a big BUT, there is never any agression involved, which sounds, frankly, scary in your situation.

He also sounds vindictive.

Sorry

He said "but there's nothing constructive about what you're saying!" and gouged into the dining table with some scissors

This really isn't right, although funny.