Help, my narsissitic Mother is hinting at coming to live with me..............

[DrNortherner]

Wonderful Dad died in April 2009. Mother been a pain in the arse since, with out going into huge detail.

Anyway, she is saying she is unsettled living alone in the house her and my Dad shared. She wants to move. The area is detoriating and she is scared.

Her house is ex council, and not worth enough for her to buy another property, so she is telling me she is considering housing association and using her money to pay the rent. She currently lives mortgage free. I know she is calling my bluff, and testing me by saying this hoping I will say come and live with me in the hope I don't want her to spend my inheritance. So, I am going along with her suggestions and offering to help her, even offering to arrange house valuation.

She mentioned tonight that a friend has been asking why she isn't coming to live with me

Dh says to nip this in the bud now and tell her hell will freeze over before she moves in here.

Either way, she is upset and was crying on the phone again

I will say to you what my friends said to me recently when Inthought about having my Mum to live with us, don't do it ! My Mum is 72 and not at all mobile, won't leave the house if it is too hot, cold or there are bugs flying around, so most of the time. Over the years I have realised she is incredibly lazy and the reason she can't walk is because she sits on her backside and moves as little as possible , which is her choice but I will not let that become my problem.

I've also realised recently that by running around and doing the things she asks me I'm allowing her to do nothing and it isn't actually good for her. She admitted recently she winds me up deliberately as she thrives on conflict so I stay very calm and treat her as I would a toddler at the moment, not getting a rise out of me really hacks me off.

Stay firm and give her the help she needs to go into sheltered housing but do not under any circumstances give in and let her come and live with you.

But would she get into sheltered housing a 64 and her only affliction is being a wimp? :)

Thanks guys for the advice, you are right. catinthhat I LOVE your flowchart! Will be making good use of it definitley.

My Mum has always been old for her age, she has never worked, although she now does a few hours a week in a charity shop (which in turn causes dramas - the manager is mean to her, staff are rude and upset her, she is the only one doing any work and all the customers sopparantly say she is the best worker in the shop)

So every phone call is her telling me her 'problems' when really she has never had a problem in her life apart from losing my dad of course.

She is overweight because she eats crap, and yes she is lazy. My Dad ran around after her. He had a job, and was a local councillor and did all the cooking and ironing. Dh and I have been married nearly 13 years and in all this time dh has never eaten a meal cooked by my Mother. When she comes to my house she sits in a chair and expects to be waited on hand and foot. Except, I refuse to be treated like my Dad so she has to do a bit for herself. Her own Mother, my Gran is still alive and is 84 and has far more get up and go than my Mum.

I know what I need to do, just sometimes when it's only you dealing with the crap (I am an only child) you lose sight of what is your responsibility and what isn't.

Thanks guys for the perspective.

Dr N

If you have never done so to date I would suggest you read the websites entitled Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers.

Your DH is right. Hard as it is and with all the tears she puts on for your benefit do not help this woman at all. She will somehow find some way to blame you for all her woes. FWIW as well I don't think her friend has mentioned anything (they don't have friends, narcs use people) but your mother has herself thought about moving in with you. Narcs will cheat and lie through their teeth to get their own way. Infact it is not possible to have any sort of relationship with a narcissist, let alone anything resembling a healthy one, so I would cut her completely off. You are her supply and she is not afraid of you.

Would suggest you have caller ID and stop taking her calls.

A chiropodist can cut her toenails and a census taker can help her with the form. As she is on her own anyway she does not have to complete pages of it.

Do not give in under any circs and have her move in with you.

I know of someone in their early 60s who has moved into sheltered housing.

Atilla, I will not cut her off. I could never live with myself if I did.

I have limited phone calls to every other day (used to be every day) and visits to once a month. She knows now I will not be walked over.

Ah, interesting. Where does your Gran live? Perhaps you could suggest she moves in with her? It would be interesting hearing her reasons why not...

The worst thing we ever did as a family was let our grandmother move in.
The only way I would have any parent live was us is if there was an annexe so we could set ground rules and firmly shut the door at given times in the day to have time wihtout each other.
Grandma, yes she did have alzheimers but she verbally abused any women in the household continuously and was very very nasty, very very able bodied. SHe would walk around behind you and criticise everything you did from the way you peeled potatoes to the way you played scrabble with her to anything you wore etc.
SO I would encourage anyone to hesitate and really think about taking in an elderly parent.....I am sure for many of you it would be a great experience, but following the years of destruction from ours, please just think about the children in the house too and the impact it could have.
I do not in anyway feel the origonal poster is harsh at all.

Ah she would never move in with her Mother as he Mother is always moaning and never listens to anyone

My Gran lives about 20 mins away on the bus, but my Mum never visits her. She just sits in her house slagging folk off and then wonders why no one visits her.

Well, I'd propose that as your solution and then close the subject.

You still call her (been conditioned to?) every other day?. Blimey.

I found the following excerpts very useful when dealing with narcissists:-

Iit is possible to have a relatively smooth relationship with a narcissist, and it's possible to maintain it for a long time. The first requirement for this, though, is distance: this simply cannot be done with a narcissist you live with. Given distance, or only transient and intermittent contact, you can get along with narcissists by treating them as infants: you give them whatever they want or need whenever they ask and do not expect any reciprocation at all, do not expect them to show the slightest interest in you or your life (or even in why you're bothering with them at all), do not expect them to be able to do anything that you need or want, do not expect them to apologize or make amends or show any consideration for your feelings, do not expect them to take ordinary responsibility in any way. But note: they are not infants; infants develop and mature and require this kind of care for only a brief period, after which they are on the road to autonomy and looking after themselves, whereas narcissists never outgrow their demands for dedicated attention to their infantile needs 168 hours a week. Adult narcissists can be as demanding of your time and energy as little babies but without the gratification of their growing or learning anything from what they suck from you. Babies love you back, but adult narcissists are like vampires: they will take all you can give while giving nothing back, then curse you for running dry and discard you as a waste of their precious time.

It is also essential that you keep emotional distance from narcissists. They're pretty good at maintaining a conventional persona in superficial associations with people who mean absolutely nothing to them, and they'll flatter the hell out of you if you have something they can use or if, for some reason, they perceive you as an authority figure. That is, as long as they think you don't count or they're afraid of you, they'll treat you well enough that you may mistake it for love. But, as soon as you try to get close to them, they'll say that you are too demanding -- and, if you ever say "I love you," they'll presume that you belong to them as a possession or an appendage, and treat you very very badly right away. The abrupt change from decent treatment to outright abuse is very shocking and bewildering, and it's so contrary to normal experience that I was plenty old before I realized that it was actually my expression of affection that triggered the narcissists' nasty reactions.

Once they know you are emotionally attached to them, they expect to be able to use you like an appliance and shove you around like a piece of furniture. If you object, then they'll say that obviously you don't really love them or else you'd let them do whatever they want with you. If you should be so uppity as to express a mind and heart of your own, then they will cut you off -- just like that, sometimes trashing you and all your friends on the way out the door. The narcissist will treat you just like a broken toy or tool or an unruly body part: "If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off" [Matt. 18:8]. This means you.

So, yes, it's possible to get along with narcissists, but it's probably not worth bothering with. If family members are narcissists, you have my deep sympathy. If people you work with are narcissists, you will be wise to keep an eye on them, if just for your own protection, because they don't think very well, no matter what their IQs, they feel that the rules (of anything) don't apply to them, and they will always cut corners and cheat wherever they think they can get away with it, not to mention alienating co-workers, clients, and customers by their arrogance, lies, malice, and off-the-wall griping. Narcissists are threatened and enraged by trivial disagreements, mistakes, and misunderstandings, plus they have evil mouths and will say ANYTHING, so if you continue to live or work with narcissists, expect to have to clean up after them, expect to lose friends over them, expect big trouble sooner or later.

The narcissist within my family and I no longer speak and I feel a lot bloody happier without all the inherent drama of their life. You will be able to live with yourself if you ever decided to cut ties.

Dr N

Her own mother sounds like your mother, this is learnt behaviour.

we will have the opposite problem if my MIL is left on Her own, yes we do have room to have with us, but she would definately want to say on her own, but she is one of these that suddenly has a person she has just met become a best friend!! As she ages it would be awful to think as these friends and gold digger's!!!

DrN you have my utmost sympathy. Your mother sounds quite like mine, same age also. Mine made me promise weekly throughout my childhood not to put her in a nursing home and to let her live with me when she was older. I know that cannot ever happen. I cope with mine now by using distance. As an only child, I know I couldn't cut her off completely, I couldn't live with the guilt, although as she has cut off every one of hers and my Dads other relations, I await her decision of cutting off contact with me.

Stick to your decision, it is the right one for you and your family. Could your DH maybe be the one to tell her it's not happening?

No, my dh and my Mother have quite a strained ralationship. It's complicated. When she comes to stay with us, I am on tenterhooks, walking on egg shells, careful not to upset her. If she is upset the weekend will be hell for everyone. Dh resents the way I pander to her and resents her for how she has completely disregarded my grief since my Dad died. She talks to me like I never lost anyone.

I will be the one to tell her that living with us is not an option. As has been said on here, even people with good relationships find it hard to live with a parent as an adult.

ScaredOfCows how terrible she made you promise she could live with you when you were just a kid. Mine never did that but she did use emotional blackmail when I was a teen and was going out with friends, she would cry and get upset as she was being left alone and she wasn't needed by me as I was growing up. I'd feel so bad I'd often cancel my friends and stay home with her.

Atilla, I am not that close to my Gran so not sure if she learnt it from her own Mother. They are very different. My Gran puts her own kids down and criticises them openly, my Mother has never done this. In fact quite the opposite, my Mother tells everyone how beautiful/clever/amazing I am and how proud she is of me.

But she never had a good relationship wit her won Mother, or any of her sisters come to think of it. I was close as a teen to one of my Aunts but reduced contact with her as my Mum became so consumed with jealousy she got nasty about it all, saying I was a snob like my Auntie, I was taking her side etc etc. It all got too difficult.

Then when I met dh she hated the fact that his Mum and step Mum are slim and more glam and accused me of loving them more and being ashamed of her. All no true. I still can not tell her if I have spent time with MIL or step MIL as it upsets her.

Let her sell and rent. She could find somewhere small and closer to you but not too close.You have to be honest and consider your own family with out loading on the guilt to yourself! It is so hard not to feel obliged but you aren't Did your grandparents live with you? I bet they didn't for exactly the same reasons you state here. I feel for you x

Dont blame you not wanting your mother to come and live with you. If she is mentally not going Ga Ga and nor physically impaired then you shouldnt feel pressured. It takes time to get used to living without a partner....5-10 yrs even.

If my mother wanted to come and live with me when my Dad dies I would just frankly say "NO" . But then she is a nightmare and total cow., and will be far worse when he does die. (He has heart failure)

If she does move ot be nearer you , then just ensure its not too near by , so she cant keep popping round every hour of the day...At least 2-3 miles away or something ...

Even if her friend did ask why she couldn't live with you (and given the history I agree it's no more than half likely), does it matter? What has the friend's opinion got to do with anything? The answer is: nuffin'. Irrelevant. Totally a non-issue.

I'm all for people taking care of their parents, especially thinking ahead as I get older myself! but looking out for someone is one thing and stretching your neck out for the vampire's bite is another. I've read a few of your anecdotes about her before and it's clear you'll never quite get over what she's done to you already, never mind giving her the chance to do more of it and then start on your DCs.

Given all this I am sure you have made the right decision. I hope you can put the guilt to rest, because however she tries to play it, you do not owe her this.

Agree 64 is very young. My father was widowed in his late 60s and started learning to cook and going to adult education to fill his time up. He's now in his early 70s and very independant although starting to fuss more.
It sounds as though your father spoiled her by not encouraging her to be more independant, although attitudes re a womans role can be medieval in parts of Teeside.
Living with you for the next 30 years is a definite no. I would tell her 64 is very young and you will probably still be working at 64, that she may have another 30 years of life left and has to start looking at how she is going to spend these years.
There's no immediate need to do anything. She has a house, she may decide she wants to stay there if the alternative is renting. If moving is too much hassle for her then she isn't that bothered. I wouldn't get involved in her moving plans at all as if it goes pear shaped and she wants her "own little house with happy memories" back you will be blamed for facilitating the move.
If she wants to move she can contact estate agents and sort it out herself. Different if this was a frail 80 year old, but she sounds mainly lazy.
She maybe needs to learn that if you don't do anything then nothing happens.

Who is her mum living with? If alone then you should point out her own mum is living alone and that she is very young. You could suggest she invite her own mum to stay with her if she's lonely as "gran is old and you could help her..."
That may give her a reality check.

Dr there is so much good advise on here, but just wanted to add, you have to stop thinking about her as your problem. My mother behaved awfully and when I got to grips with the idea I didn't need/deserve to feel guilty about not pandering to her silly demands, I felt such a huge weight lift from my shoulders. It is her behaviour which causes problems in your relationship, not yours.

Please get some help/advise so you grow strong enough to ensure her behaviour doesn't effect you as much and send you into this spiral of guilt and anxiety.

Wow, this really rings bells for me.

When my dad was alive I wouldn't hear from her, now he's past away, last three years she become so dependant, ringing all the time visiting once a month.

I wouldn't mind but the past has never been discussed and I have to hear about the perfect marriage they had years of screaming and emotional abuse convienently forgotten

I have to say I am a hard hearted bitch when it comes to my mum, otherwise I think about her all the time and it winds me up.

So here are my rules for sanity :)

1. If you don't feel strong enough for the conversation, don't have it. Screen calls, you CERTAINLY shouldn't be speaking every other day. Whittle that down.

1. Ask about her social life, don't react o negative comments, just say wow its wonderful how busy you are ! Wow isn't that great, ignore, ignore all the criticism of others constantly doing wrong. Don't react.

1. Do not get involved in anything to do with money. You will be told one thing then they will do another and you are always in the wrong etc. In your case I would just say oh don't worry about selling your house ! The estate agent and solicitor will do everything for you ! Then its her decision if she wants to.

1. Do not put her before your own family, that is what they want. You will not get any thanks.

1. Get a clone. My brother is my sanity, I can call him up he does a brill impression of my mum, I put the phone down I feel better.

P.S any judgy pants out there clearly don't have any idea bout narc parents so you can all take a hike till you have endured 30 years of it

DrN as others have said, your mother is not your responsibility and you definitely shouldn't feel guilty about not wanting to move her in with you. You know it wouldn't work; it would make your family miserable, and surely your (and their) happiness is just as important as your mothers?

Is there any chance this could get better over time? Two years isn't a huge amount of time to get used to living alone if you never have (especially as it sounds as if your dad 'spoiled' her somewhat!). Am trying to be optimistic here!

Obviously as you say she can't afford to move to Harrogate, but what if she downsized drastically and bought something about 30/40 miles away from you? Then you don't have to do such a big trip to occasionally visit her, and she will feel she's 'winning' a bit because she's getting closer to you.