I think that I have just been gaslighted by dh for the first time in our 12 year relationship

[BertieFromBirmingham]

How dare he

How fucking DARE he try to make out I got this wrong.

I am incandescent.

The company dh works for has just been through a round of redundancies. THankfully he survived. One of his colleagues who lost her job invited everyone from their department to a farewell lunch at her house today.

When dh told me about it a couple of weeks ago he said he'd take both our children with him to give me some time on my own. Bit of backstory, I am exhausted with non sleeping baby, he is away a lot, no family nearby so I very rarely get time on my own to recharge. He has had time to himself occasionally, not often but more than I have. I put it to him at Christmas that he needed to make more effort to take the children off my hands as I am burning out. So, when he offered, completely unprompted, I was delighted and I have been looking forward to today so very much.

So, this morning, he starts talking about how he's picking up colleagues to take with him. So you're not taking the children then??? He said that he could take one of them as that was all the space he had in the car.

WHen I told him that he had let me down as I was expecting to be on my own today, he said that he told me last week he could only take one of them (errr NO YOU DIDN'T)

He then went on to say that he only ever offered to take one of them (errr NO)

I had a proper go at him (within earshot of dc's :( ) about how I was not going to let him change history or lie to me in order to cover up his fuck up.

He insists that he never said he'd take them both.

He has taken both of them, acting all normal on the way out as if there was nothing wrong.

THer have been (less serious) issues between us for a while and we've been working on our relationship. He's never done anything like this before. He has lied a couple of times but when challenged he's admitted it.

I am utterly confused. I KNOW what he said to me when today was first discussed. He is adamant he didn't say anything of the sort.

I also know that gaslighting is classic EA and I WILL NOT accept this treatment. I have told him so this morning.

Is it common in terms of EA for this sort of thing to start after 12 years??

Really don't know what to make of it and would appreciate your thoughts.

I mentioned NPD UA (I never said "silly label") because it has become something of a stock response on MN to a wide range of behaviours and isn't always accurate.
I wasn't taking the piss out of it, just noting that it is vastly overused. And gaslighting has suddenly been mentioned loads as well.

It's not saying it doesn't happen/doesn't exist but it isn't always the case.

I agree, it was probably insensitive of me to mention NPD, I don't know. I was just trying to make the point that we are far too quick to jump to conclusions on MN at times.

Thanks Mouse, that is what I what clumsily trying to point out.

There are obviously problems in the Ops marriage, but from what she described this morning it seemed a huge jump to term it gaslighting.

Lol at gaslighting. What a strange phrase

withagoat - it's from a really amazing black and white film called Gaslight. In the film a woman's husband tries to convince her she's going mad by playing tricks on her.

Also, 'it dilutes the terms'. I strongly disagree.

This is a forum for info, support and advice. Posters can use others' information, experiences and opinions to help them make up their own minds.

Way way back on my own thread, I suddenly realised that exh had raped me and saisd so. (So I suppose I could have been accused of 'bandying around' the 'silly label' rape?)

This was debated and some posters said that it was not rape but in fact sexual assault or perhaps 'obtaining sex by deception which is nasty but not a crime'.

Others were blunt and said yes, it certainly sounded like rape.

Nothing was diluted. In fact my thoughts were crystalised for me thanks to other people giving the experience various 'labels' and offering their own opinions and interpretations from the words I had posted.

Thank god for plenty of 'bandying,' 'silly labels' and no belittling or patronising wink emoticons back then.

Gaslighting has been used a lot lateley , and I think its because more people are aware of it.

The incidant the op describes could easily be a one off and a genuine misunderstanding. However , i think when the op described other emotionally abusive behaviours ie stonewalling , minimizing and sulking , that indicated to those who read it that it could have been gaslighting.

Either way , her H does indeed apear to be engaging in emotionally abusive behaviour , so her suspicions about being gaslighted are perfectly justified .

But lizzy, you write this: "There are obviously problems in the Ops marriage, but from what she described this morning it seemed a huge jump to term it gaslighting."

I have taken on board your opinion and totally agree. I write guff.

I hope the OP is realising that she should stop being so damn drama queenish and shape up to be the wifey her H clearly deserves, poor bloke.

How about a more widely acceptable label? He's a bully. He's used particular, time-honoured bullying tactics like stonewalling (another old-fashioned word), denying her feelings, telling her she can't trust her own memory (which could be gaslighting - the word's been used since the 1940s) and passive aggression. That last one used to be called 'dumb insolence' if you don't like modern terms. Oh, and my ex had all the hallmarks of NPD but, to use the older word for it - he is mad.

Hope that helps

Once again UA, I have never used the phrase "silly label" nor have I belittled the Op.

This forum is for advice and support but I do worry that people can believe that they have bigger problems than they do and see worrying behaviour when there isn't any.

Now you're being ridiculous, where have I said that she should be a "Good wifey"?

theyoungvisiter

Why are you so defensive of your dad?

lizzy, it is your OPINION that the term NPD is vastly overused on MN.

Absolutely no-one has mentioned that on this thread except you!

Actually in the threads going at the moment on relationships, it is 'bandied about' very little.

Far from being 'dangerous' to 'bandy about' terms of which some posters sadly have huge experience, I would argue that it is important to show some posters exactly what is happening to them, as many are unhappy without quite knowing why.

It's reading about other's experience of these behaviours that brings those light-bulb moments that are so crucial for posters who are drowning in their relationships.

What would you posters who think we are 'bandying about' with our ideas think we should do with all our dreadful experiences? Perhaps we should all stop posting and just tell the OP to put up and shut up?

I also think it is patronising in the extreme to tell a poster that just because they are pregnant or tired that they are over-reacting or too sensitive, or imagining it.

I was using a silly label - it is called 'hyperbole'. Have you had a 'sense of humour bypass' (its a silly old fashioned label that)

And do you genuinely worry for people in that way?

genuinely ? I mean, you have posted about Boden in the Style and Beauty topic. You dont sound really worried to me.

lizzy I have not said you belittled the op. You are gaslighting me.

I beg your pardon?!

How and where have I been defensive?

I pointed out that it is possible to be merely forgetful (as my dad is, for example) and not emotionally abusive. How is that defensive? Or are you implying that I am so emotionally abused that I'm unable to recognise that my dad is in fact a monster in the guise of a very kindly man?

This forum is for advice and support but I do worry that people can believe that they have bigger problems than they do and see worrying behaviour when there isn't any.

I dont beleive that any rational adult starts to beleive they are seeing worrying behaviour where there isnt any because somebody has made them aware that emotional abuse exists.

I have posted about Boden (not even today I don't think)? And?
I have also recommended a sticky mosaic set as well.
Does that mean I can't have an opinion on anything else? Or be concerned for anyone else?
Or was that just your sense of humour??

How am I gaslighting you? Honestly this is getting hysterical.

Nor do I. Its usually the opposite.

Pattern Changing - WA's incredibly wonderful 14 week three hours a week course - taught me that.

This has all gone off tangent and the OP is probably eating strawberries and cream with her DH and singing old folksy tunes, lighting a fire and planning that trip to the Maldives by now (not) But these sort of conversations are very valid.

I believe that exact opposite of that dignified (your quote)

I think we see threads over and over again where the OP is absolutely miserable , but doesn't know why. After posting more details about a seemingly initial trivial matter, the whole truth finally comes out and they realise the whole problem is not in their head, and it's not them.

I mean about what you quoted from another poster, dignified, not what you yourself said

I mean ....what dignified said...ffs

If you return OP and I really hope you do, I would like to know how long your dh sulks for.

Also, what happens with the DC when he is sulking. Does he take them off with him, or does he ignore them too?

This is all very relevant.
There is sulking
and there is sulking

I dont beleive people are so gullible theyre going to jump to immediate conclusions and start imagining all sorts.

If they did , doorstep sellers would be making a fortune as we,d all be afraid that our double glazing was going to fall out any minuite now.

Wow, what a fascinating discussion. I will mull it over outside of my own issues I think. Really interesting stuff.

I've calmed down now, done some thinking, and I think perhaps my OP was a bit ott.

However I still don't think that either dh or I misunderstood anything.

For whatever reason he decided he didn't want to take the children today after all and possibly thought I wouldn't mind if he went back on his offer.

When I told him I was disappointed he proceeded to try and lie his way out of it, something which he's done before. THe difference is that this time he hasn't backed down and admitted the lie.

THe reason I think this is that the story changed over the course of the discussion. First of all he said that he told me last week that he would only take one of them. Then that changed to him never having said he'd take both. I honestly believe that if I had not made a fuss he wouldn't have taken either of them.

Yes I am tired, so is he, we both work hard and dd2's sleep is very disruptive (albeit mostly to me as he rarely deals with her). FWIW dd2 is not a small baby, she is 18 months. This is why I needed a few hours off. He has had time off from both work and family more frequently and recently than I have.

He used to sulk for a few days UA, he's much better recently but it can go on for hours. The incident I linked to further up resulted in the only three day sulk he's had for some years now.

In the last six months or so I have been far less tolerant of his behaviour. For years I was depressed, wanted an easy life, wasn't prepared to rock the boat. I'm clear now that I am not prepared to live with the twattish episodes and I have been challenging him much more. On the whole he seems to be reacting positively to this, for eg he used to complain about having to spend money when it was my birthday, now he buys thoughtful presents with no complaint as I have pointed out to him how hurtful it is to be made to feel as though you aren't worth a bit of effort on your birthday.

They are not back yet. This was supposed to be for lunch, IABU to think he should let me know if they are going to be much later? I am -unsuccessfully-- resisting the urge to think he's doing it on purpose. THere are massive road works in our town today and traffic is gogin to be very disrupted. A phone call or text would have been nice though. Am going to ring shortly to ask when he expects to be home.

Reading this post Bertie, it sounds like he's being inconsiderate towards your feelings in some areas, but taking on board what you say in others, ie your birthdays.

If my DH was running late, for whatever reason, he'd text or call. As would I.

I'm not sure what he's up to, if anything. Maybe you are both totally exhausted and just need some time together, as a couple rather than parents for a while.

Talk to him. Tell him how you are feeling and see what he says.