I think that I have just been gaslighted by dh for the first time in our 12 year relationship

[BertieFromBirmingham]

How dare he

How fucking DARE he try to make out I got this wrong.

I am incandescent.

The company dh works for has just been through a round of redundancies. THankfully he survived. One of his colleagues who lost her job invited everyone from their department to a farewell lunch at her house today.

When dh told me about it a couple of weeks ago he said he'd take both our children with him to give me some time on my own. Bit of backstory, I am exhausted with non sleeping baby, he is away a lot, no family nearby so I very rarely get time on my own to recharge. He has had time to himself occasionally, not often but more than I have. I put it to him at Christmas that he needed to make more effort to take the children off my hands as I am burning out. So, when he offered, completely unprompted, I was delighted and I have been looking forward to today so very much.

So, this morning, he starts talking about how he's picking up colleagues to take with him. So you're not taking the children then??? He said that he could take one of them as that was all the space he had in the car.

WHen I told him that he had let me down as I was expecting to be on my own today, he said that he told me last week he could only take one of them (errr NO YOU DIDN'T)

He then went on to say that he only ever offered to take one of them (errr NO)

I had a proper go at him (within earshot of dc's :( ) about how I was not going to let him change history or lie to me in order to cover up his fuck up.

He insists that he never said he'd take them both.

He has taken both of them, acting all normal on the way out as if there was nothing wrong.

THer have been (less serious) issues between us for a while and we've been working on our relationship. He's never done anything like this before. He has lied a couple of times but when challenged he's admitted it.

I am utterly confused. I KNOW what he said to me when today was first discussed. He is adamant he didn't say anything of the sort.

I also know that gaslighting is classic EA and I WILL NOT accept this treatment. I have told him so this morning.

Is it common in terms of EA for this sort of thing to start after 12 years??

Really don't know what to make of it and would appreciate your thoughts.

I must admit, when I read the OP my first reaction was that it was a huge overreaction on her part. DH and I frequently have conversations where I am certain one thing was agreed and he is equally certain another thing was and I am fairly certain neither of us believes the other is 'gaslighting' or have had anything other than a mix-up in communication.

Certainly, there seem to be other factors at work in the OP's relationship which might suggest more is going on, but the OP itself just seems one of those miscommunications to me.

I was not poking fun or pulling a sarcastic face, Getting. I do think people are too quick to label behaviours on MN and I don't think it is helpful in the least, in fact I think it is very dangerous.

I agree that the later post from the OP is more worrying, but the situation this morning sounds to me very like a genuine misunderstanding/forgetfulness.

In my dad's case he's not gaslighting and it's not EA because it's over bloody stupid things like what time to meet for lunch

Im confused , are you saying that in order for it to be Ea it has to be over something important ?

In regards to the op , its not unusual to have misunderstandings , it happens to me a lot as im terrible for remembering certain things. However , when that happens i accept that its usually my misunderstanding , i do not spend an hour trying to convince the other person that a conversation didnt happen.

A normal misunderstanding would go like this

Dh - im picking my colleagues up blah blah
Op - Are you ? I thought you were taking the dcs ?
Dh - Did i ? I thought i said xy or z ?

Someone whos doing it on purpose is adamant about what they said , they express no doubt , they know exactly what they said in fine detail and go to great lengths to prove this , aparently remembering conversations 2 weeks ago word for word.

"Im confused , are you saying that in order for it to be Ea it has to be over something important ?"

No I'm not saying that - I do realise that EA can manifest over extremely trivial matters.

I was just trying to illustrate the fact that it's perfectly possible to be a forgetful person, completely convinced of your own rectitude and NOT be gaslighting. Having a different recollection of a conversation, even a very detailed one, does not mean you are an emotional abuser.

I think it sounds like the OP and her husband's relationship is not great at the moment - but calling the incident in the OP gaslighting is an overreaction, IMO.

I don't know whether this OP is an instance of gaslighting but his making a big deal out of it is certainly unpleasant. I'm getting very fed up of posters belittling others' concerns, apparently without much knowledge of the behaviours described. Controlling, manipulative behaviours cover an entire spectrum; it's not as if everyone is either a psychopath or adorable. Most people fall somewhere in the middle.

Living with a person who frequently tries to undermine you is extremely wearing. It turns what should be a relaxed, happy & supportive relationship inot a war of attrition. With labels for these undermining acts, you can at least name what's happening and this helps you deal with it. Otherwise, you can get mired in a confusing mess of self-blame which is what the controlling person wants to happen.

theyoungvisiter, your dad's behaviour is manipulative. He does this to get his own way, right? So it's a slightly dishonest method of control - it saves him having to actually stick up for his preference or having to compromise. Please note, I've not said he's an abuser. He is manipulative. It works for him and, as long as it's not forcing anyone into situations they don't want, it's not abuse.

My DH often tells me I didn't tell/ask him something but I tell him I did in my head . Totally unreasonable for him to still not have done it .

Bertie- I am not making fun of your situation - though I hope my post raised a smile - but this does seem like an OTT reaction but is because you are knackered. Use your calendar in future so there can be no misunderstanding.

What garlic said. (again).

Why would it be dangerous though, Lizzy? If you posted something about your husband and someone said are you sure he isn't abusing you? Do you think he might have NPD? and posted some information about emotional abuse or NPD and you read it and thought "No, that isn't DH at all, how ridiculous" then nothing would come of it.

So the only "danger" is that someone who is being abused, now has a name for what is happening. Someone who isn't being abused is going to immediately laugh or think it's a ridiculous assumption.

I really don't think it's possible to convince someone that they are being abused when they are not. It's very easy on the other hand for someone who is being abused to be in denial about that.

Garlicbutter, he's not manipulative. He's forgetful and unable to believe that his memory isn't perfect.

And he doesn't get his own way - he ends up sitting alone in a restaurant for half an hour wondering where everyone is, because he's forgotten that we all agreed to meet at 1.30, not 1.00 as he suggested.

Sorry but your post is a classic example of someone "diagnosing" someone over the internet without any knowledge of their actual behaviour or motives. You've never met my dad. You have no idea what he's like.

Nor have I met the OP's husband but there are two possible explanations for his behaviour and one of them is perfectly innocent - that's all I'm saying.

I don't want to patronise you but when i am extremely tired with my non sleeping baby i tend to get a bit sensitive, over emotional and definately over react to things.

If he has taken the kids i think you should take the opportunity to relax and don't wind yourself up about it. You might feel less stressed about things if you have a soak in the bath a bit of sleep.

Oohh wish my husband would take the kids, i could do with a soak alone. Always end up with a kid jumping in!

Heh, theyoungvisiter, your dad doesn't get his own way, then! I'd got the impression you all went along with him, even though you'd agreed something else between you. Now you've said he loses out due to his convictions, it's ... not actually anything to do with this thread, is it? BFB's H got what he wanted AND spent an hour giving her earache about it. So, not remotely like your father.

How did he get what he wanted?

He took both the DD with him.

Sometimes people say something and other people hear something different.

Sorry about that, it's hours since I read the OP. I hope she is using the time for herself as planned!

OP's post at 11.51 reads:
"..he won't put any effort into us spending time together on our own. He won't talk to me about anything that I consider important, if I am upset about something he just closes down and completely ignores me. Recently he accidentally physically hurt me but refused to apologise and made out I had overreacted. He is not pulling his weight when it comes to childcare (although does his share in the house). Everything has to be on his terms or he sulks."

There is another "silly label" () for some of this appalling behaviour too OP: stonewalling.

Don't talk so sneeringly about 'silly labels'. Is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder a silly label? Is schizophrenia a silly label? Is bi-polar disorder a silly label?

An earlier poster put a [ wink ] emoticon after writing NPD. How hideously patronising and naive.

My last 2 paras are not aimed at the OP but at those who have been so sarcastic about terms being 'bandied about' and 'silly labels'.

'Twat' has its uses but for those who have been gaslighted, stonewalled and idealised, devalued and discarded by Narcissists, twat is not enough. A 'silly label' can be a seminal moment and the first step on the road to recovery and ejecting the twat from their lives.

My dh is always telling me things late in the day and insisting that he had already told me several days/weeks before. I don't get worked up about it. I just assume that he's absent minded or that he thought he'd told me. If I thought he was gaslighting I would never be able to trust him again.

But crystal does your dh also "...he won't put any effort into us spending time together on our own. He won't talk to me about anything that I consider important, if I am upset about something he just closes down and completely ignores me. Recently he accidentally physically hurt me but refused to apologise and made out I had overreacted. He is not pulling his weight when it comes to childcare (although does his share in the house). Everything has to be on his terms or he sulks." ?

I mean, does he? Doesnt sound like he does, in which case he probably isn't 'gaslighting' But you can surely see there is a difference when such behaviours are all put together? Something is not right?

Do you think being tired is making it seem worse? Only saying it because I have 5 week old baby and some days everything seems R.E.A.L.L.Y B.A.D. Obviously not downplaying what he did - just thinking it's nothing a week on a beach in the maldives (without kids. Or OH) wouldn't sort out... Or maybe that's just me.

There is a HUGE difference between gaslighting and a forgetful partner.

It all depends on the back story, other incidents and how long that person has felt that something is 'just not right' between the couple.

It can be very subtle or far more obvious, depending on how fast the gaslighter wants to break you.

For me, it happened towards the end of the relationship, everything was my fault. Everything. Even things that happened at work was my fault, a car crash he had was my fault.

Oh and he was a narc too.

UA - good post re labels.

UA, People seem so quick to diagnose and label behaviours and it isn't healthy and dilutes the strength of the terms. So when people ARE suffering from the effects of these disorders it somehow cheapens it.
I do think it is dangerous to use labels so freely, yes, as Bertie says mostly people will think "no, that is not my DH/our relationship" and that is that. But when someone is vulnerable/sleep deprived or whatever these terms can be seized upon and used to explain away a normal misunderstanding/argument amking it something bigger.
Obviously there are other problems than this morning's disagreement in the Op's marriage but this morning sounds to me very like the DH was stubborn and didn't want to be wrong and argued their case for an hour. I know I do similar.

travis sometimes, somebody who is good at gaslighting and stonewalling and all those other 'silly labels' will start accelerating these behaviours when they know the partner is excessively tired. They know that the partner will be in a more knackered and anxious state and they are therefore more easily persuaded that any fault lies with them.

Often, at this stage, the 'silly labelled' person will start saying things like 'god, you're mental. You should get some help,' or 'I can't stand you when you're like this' or 'I can't talk to you when you're in this state' or any similar variable.

I am not suggesting this has happened to the OP, I am just passing comment.

Lizzy, you mentioned NPD first. Dont take the piss out of it.

Lizzy - I agrre with this "UA, People seem so quick to diagnose and label behaviours and it isn't healthy and dilutes the strength of the terms. So when people ARE suffering from the effects of these disorders it somehow cheapens it."

And I'm guessing that's what you meant in your first post.

You are right too. Lately, there has been an increase in finger pointing to a certain label IMO, when in actual fact, it's just a one off, or the OP might come back and say, 'actually, I over-reacted, sorry'

In this case, not sure if it's gaslighting as I understand it to be, but if there are other things, which there are, then this isn't a happy relationship.