My mum is sick and twisted or IS DH

[Desperately]

My Mum has accused my husband of sexually molesting DD (14). We rarely see my Mum but she is staying for a couple of days. This evening we were all watching a DVD and DD went to sit on DH's lap. DH was cuddling her and rubbing her tummy (does the same with the dog). Mum started asking her husband (my stepdad) if that was normal behaviour - in a loud whisper - I could hear but DH and DD couldn't. She then proceeded to say something along the lines of how she couldn't bear to watch and stormed out of the room. I told DH later when the kids were in bed -he was devastated and furious. I think my Mum is actually insane - but IS IT normal for a 14 year old to cuddle her dad and sit on his lap. My own dad now deceased was a violent drunk, and we didn't have a close relationship - my Mum's dad died when she was very young so I don't think either of us can judge what is "normal". Mum is leaving in the morning and I don't see how I can ever see her again. I am also starting to doubt DH. Never did before now.

Bast, what are you on about?

"conditioned", "stroking" - you have no idea what you are talking about!

I "stroke" my ds's hair and his back - he likes dh to scratch his back gently - oooohhh, there must be something dodgy going on, surely? Maybe you should go back to the Daily Mail.

So where is he supposed to put his hands when she's sitting on his lap?

Can't a teenage daughter and her dad have an affectionate relationship without it being sinister?

The thing is Bast that if you substitute some random words you have chosen for the ones used by the OP then you make anything you like out of the situation. It seems to me that you have some sort of agenda here.

As others have said, it sounds like the mum has some issues and doesn't actually know what is normal. The situation described by the OP sounds like a normal, everyday occurrence in a loving, tactile family.

diddl - how can there be an age boundary

I am not saying that there should be a boundary-was wondering what others thought.

I suppose I am surprised that the daughter is still OK with it.

I know once I had boobs and pubes it would have felt wrong as to me.

My daughter is the same.

She has naturally become more protective for want of a better word of her body.

But that's it, diddl - no two 14 year olds are the same.

i agree caoimhe.

someone said upthread that rubbing her tummy is sexual and that it would be better to rub her back. well for me my back is an erogenous zone. my tummy not in the slightest. if i was sitting on my dad's kneww and he rubbed my back i would find it very uncomfortable. (but as i said, i only wish i could have had the sort of relationship where i did sit onmy dad's knee)

I'm with you, BooyFuckingHoo - my back is much more of an erogenous zone than my tummy! To me, rubbing a tummy is something you do when you don't feel well - it's not remotely sexual.

My ds loves his back rubs - and why not? I love them too. Think about the behaviour of apes - they never have their hands (paws, whatever!) off each other - it is a bonding thing.

But that's it diddl no two 14 year olds are the same.

No of course they are not.
I thought I had put that somewhere but dont seem to have done

You better watch out, diddl - you'll have Bast coming along in a minute to tell you that your dd has been "conditioned" to be "more protective for want of a better word of her body".

Hope not-she hides herself from me as well as her Dad!

Desperately

I think it's normal in some families :) It may not be 'normal' as in 'everyone does it', but it's not abnormal either - as you can see.

My god-daughters are now 18 & 21, they both still sit on their Dad's knee & have a cuddle, stroking, rubbing, patting is just sort of an absent minded thing you do isn't it.

Your DD chooses to go and sit on her Dad's knee, she doesn't push his hand off her tummy - let them be, let them enjoy being physically close - it will certainly help her through her teenage years.

As for you Mum - I don't think she's 'sick & twisted' I think she has had a sad past and has nothing to base her expectations on. It sounds like her past has been quite troubled and she's projecting that onto your DH & DD. I would suggest if you ever have her to stay again, you don't have any wine in. Also I think you need to talk to her before she comes to stay again - you really don't want her accusing your DH of abusing your DD and them then becoming self conscious of their physical behaviour around each other - that would be a real shame. I hope DH doesn't already feel too uncomfortable now - you need to talk to him and reassure him that you don't agree with her (unless you are worried of course?!) :(

Everything that Booy said.

I think I was about 14 when I stopped sitting on my Dad's knee and hugging him etc, I only stopped because this is when I started to 'feel' grown up and felt pressured by social norms to stop. A couple of years later I realised I missed being affectionate with my Dad and started again. I am sad that I ever felt that I should not be affectionate with my Dad, I love him very much so why should I not be physically affectionate? I hug friends because I love them, I kiss aunts and uncle on the cheek because I love them, although not in the same way I love my Dad.

I only have boys and they're quite young so we are very cuddly. I hope they continue to be when they are teens but if they're not then that will be fine too. Like a lot of people have said, some people are simply more touchy-feeling than others. All this talk of 'conditioning' etc is beyond crap.

Queeva, I have no idea what I'm talking about, according to you. You may be right, you may be wrong, it's of no matter to me - I have no hidden agenda.

I've said throughout, so long as the OP's daughter is aware of her right to personal boundaries...

Conditioned - not with intent but the OP's daughter has no choice as to feel this is normal given she was brought up with tummy stroking by a parent as normal.

As diddl says, teenagers often do develop their own sense of privacy. OTOH, when that privacy has already been breached, it may not have occurred to them that they have a right to it.

I'm of the camp that says don't mention anything to your DD. It'll only make her start feeling self-conscious. She went of her own volition to sit on her dad's lap. She didn't pull his hand off her when he stroked her tummy.

My eldest DS is also very affectionate with me. He asks me for cuddles, doesn't often sit on my lap as he's so big now (16), but does like to be stroked - feet, legs, back, shoulders, everywhere nearly in fact.

If you feel you do have to say something to your mother, then I would say that she shouldn't say anything like that again, that your family is very affectionate, that's just the way some people are.

I agree, the worst bit is that this has put a seed of doubt in your mind.

Going back to the op-I don´t think it´s normal or abnormal-perhaps unusual.

We still all have cuddles but tummy rubbing has never been a form of affection.

When young we kissed tummies & blew raspberries

I do feel sorry for your mum though that it made her feel so uncomfortable.

That said, she might not be the only one.

Because it´s a thing we have never done, it might make me feel uncomfortable.

My 13yr old daughter is big for her age & size wise for example it would look more like a girlfriend sitting in her boyfriend´s lap.

I think if she truly thought that something was inappropriate then she was right to say something-just not in the way she did.

OP if it has given you doubts, then maybe you are not 100% comfortable with it?

I think it is fine I used to sit on my dads lap and hug him and when I hit about age 14 I was told I wasnt allowed to wander round in just my underware (I used to run through to grab my make up or clothes e.t.c) or sit on my dads lap (fully clothed sitting on my dads lap) because I was too old, this really upset me and made me self concious dont say anything op.

If there was something else I might say speak to her but this alone is fine. My dad also used to tickle me I think it is sad that once you hit a certain age as a teenage girl people stop playing with you nd it really upset me.

Im 24 and STILL sit on my dads lap for a cuddle. He grumbles and groans that im too heavy - then rubs my back and squeezes me hard. We snuggle on the sofa together too. And I WAS abused as a child, there is nothing wrong with sitting on my dads lap for a hug. O and he still tickles me....

But does he still rub your tummy, Ifeellike?

I think lots of teenagers still sit on their dad´s lap for a cuddle.

I cant remember him rubbing my tummy tbh. he certainly rubs my leg, feet, back, head, tickles my sides. Or sits with his hand on my tummy. I rub HIS tummy though! just to annoy him - and see if i can make it do the homer simpson wobble..... Im still his baby and will forever get away with murder with my dad i think! Am very much a daddys girl./

I still think that it is OPs daughters age that is the "issue".

A lot of people on here saying that they still do it as an adult (and no longer living at home) isn´t really comparable imo.

The daughter is at that in between age-neither chid nor adult.

Obviously telling her she can´t/shouldn´t sit on her dad´s knee would be wrong.

But perhaps the dad also ought to consider that she is not a young child & that some forms of touching should stop?

I am actually quite sad that there are several posters who do not think this is appropriate. Firstly I wonder whether people would have the same objections if the sexes were reversed?

Secondly, I think it is lovely that the father is able to show his affection for his child, and I am sad that this could be construed in such a way. The tummy is not sexual.

diddl - why should this form of touching stop? What is the reason, assuming (as we gather from the OP) that the girl is happy and comfortable with it?

My MIL used to stroke my DH's back when he was a teenager, he still likes having his back stroked now.. I would never think that this is odd, just nice that people can be that demonstrative. I don't think it is indicative of abuse at all, in fact I would hazard a guess at the opposite but this is just a speculation.

My parents were not 'touchy' however my DH's parents were and DH is. I feel envious of how relaxed my DH is lying on the sofa having DCs come in for a goodnight cuddle with him. DCs are now 15, 12 & 11. It is a running joke in the family that I am more comfortable with shaking hands.

The OP has come on and said thanks and it seemed to me like she was "signing" off, yet as so often happens on MN, posters don't seem to accept that and carry on posting regardless and the fact that Op never comes back doesn't seem to deter you all. Hmm Am I being unreasonable?!

Sorry, didnt realise that there was 'best before date' on threads.

im glad that the op has come back to find some comfort int he thread. i don't think that a discussion should stop.

anyway i think its perfectly normal and i think those who say otherwise are weirdos