My mum is sick and twisted or IS DH

[Desperately]

My Mum has accused my husband of sexually molesting DD (14). We rarely see my Mum but she is staying for a couple of days. This evening we were all watching a DVD and DD went to sit on DH's lap. DH was cuddling her and rubbing her tummy (does the same with the dog). Mum started asking her husband (my stepdad) if that was normal behaviour - in a loud whisper - I could hear but DH and DD couldn't. She then proceeded to say something along the lines of how she couldn't bear to watch and stormed out of the room. I told DH later when the kids were in bed -he was devastated and furious. I think my Mum is actually insane - but IS IT normal for a 14 year old to cuddle her dad and sit on his lap. My own dad now deceased was a violent drunk, and we didn't have a close relationship - my Mum's dad died when she was very young so I don't think either of us can judge what is "normal". Mum is leaving in the morning and I don't see how I can ever see her again. I am also starting to doubt DH. Never did before now.

I still sit on my parents knees or snuggle up to them and I'm 30.. and yes I do squash them!

Both my pearents are toxic and no my siblings are not on the statly homes thread but i am.

As long as the father tearts all the children the same i do not see a problem with showing affection to other family members in a loving non-sexual way.

I am a very touchy-feely parent. I am forever grabbing my youngest for a cuddle and a kiss. But he's 8. My older 2 willingly hug me and we all huddle up together in the sofa. But at around the age of 11 the sort of touch that was OK changed imperceptibly - on their part, not mine. They also became much more conscious of privacy having been quite happy to wander round starkers and to see DH and the same way when they were younger.

I just can't envisage being comfortable with a parent rubbing a 14 yr old's tummy. Just odd, not worrying as such as clearly you know them both, but as an outsider I'd find it odd. Sorry. Clearly your mother feels as I do but more so.

I still cuddle up to my dad and i'm 27!

Desperately where are you?? I haven't read every single post but notice that you have not come back. Would be interested in your reaction to some of these posts. FWIW I have 30 years experience as a social worker and team manager and involvement in child protection and this does not sound at all like abuse to me. Why would a girl who was being abused choose to go and sit on dad's lap. Yes I know some people are saying that children get co-ered into this kind of behaviour but not in the living room with everyone around. I don't think you should talk to your daughter or suspect your husband. Just forget it and carry on being the loving family that you obviously are.

sorry should read coerced (still doesn't look like right spelling but meaning having pressure put on you to behave in a certain way.

My mum is sick and twisted or IS DH

Neither, I'd say.

Your mum is, understandably, going on her own experiences. Compared to the way her own parents were and the way it was when you were young, yours sounds like a lovely cuddly family.

There may be, as some have suggested, a jealous reaction on the part of your mum as she's never experienced anything like the way your family is together.

Where is OP?

I find it unusual, sitting next to and cuddling up to a parent on a couch at 14 would not be so unusual, it is the sitting on the knee at that age that is unusual. I have NEVER seen any friends or family do this in my life! The tummy rubbing unusual also, again I have never seen anything like this with a 14 year old girl and a parent, back rubbing and feet rubbing I don't find so unusual.

I don't think your Mam's reaction was right either, she could have said something later if she was concerned.

I am the OP and still around but with no internet access yesterday. I just wanted to say a big thank you for all the comments. I was in turmoil when I wrote the message in the middle of the night, unable to sleep as I couldn't believe my Mum's behaviour - she has had episodes of insanity before and I think was abused as a child, she is also jealous of DH. She takes anti-depressants and had a couple of glasses of wine so I think that might also be partly responsible. It is just about the worst thing to be accused of though.
Great to hear about all the affectionate families and reassured that our family's behaviour is normal. There was no sexual element to the tummy rubbing, DH was brought up with a lot of dogs so I think it is an almost unconscious thing - though it sounds weird if you don't see it.
Thanks again for taking the time to post all the good advice and comments.

Interesting because I was wondering about your mum's own experience and whether she might have been abused herself. I remember my dad cuddling me when I was about 14 in front of a friend and she made a comment that made it clear she thought it was peculiar and sinister. I felt embarassed and consciously withdrew a little from my dad after that. He died when I was 17. How much do I regret that! I later realised, when looking back at other things also, that this girl was probably being abused by her own father and that the issue was hers.

Glad you are feeling better about it OP.

I think if you are all OK about the tummy rubbing thats fine.

I think your mum overreacted.

But perhaps your husband maybe needs to give a thought as to who sees them doing this.

Thinking in terms of your daughters peers here-might lead to some ribbing for her.

These strike me as a strange couple of lines to trot out...

"DH was cuddling her and rubbing her tummy (does the same with the dog)"

"There was no sexual element to the tummy rubbing, DH was brought up with a lot of dogs..."

Is he Mowgli?

I was brought up with a lot of dogs. I was also brought up with other humans and fully understand the varying boundaries and the implications of crossing those boundaries with regard to sharing affection with these very different species!

Your daughter isn't a dog, your husband needs to be aware of appropriate touch between adult male and minor female regardless of relationship (or his upbringing!).

Your daughter needs to be aware that particularly as she matures, there are areas of her body which no-one has a right to touch, mindlessly or otherwise, without her consent. Even if, in fact, particularly if their understanding of appropriate touch is skewed, for some outlandish reason.

If she rubbed his tummy in a similar way, would she/he/you feel entirely comfortable?

I doubt there is an issue of sexual abuse but I do think young women should be encouraged to gain an understanding of what is comfortable and appropriate to them, to wider society and the whys of such and further encouraged to voice their expectations and rights wrt other people's touch of their own bodies.

Since when was a tummy sexual? Why is that an area of her body that shouldn't be touched?

Some of you seem to be saying that there should be no physical contact between dads and teenage girls at all. How sad :(

Reads all a bit 'all men are rapists' IMO - like all men can't help but become aroused by their teenage daughters.

Both my boys 11 & 14 ask to sit on my knee for a cuddle, although DS1 is taller and bigger than me, but I take all the cuddles I can get . They both still ask DH if they can sit on his knee too and he would never say no either.

They are always fighting over who is going to sit next to me on the sofa...

ladybiscuit i totally agree. it is extremely sad to read all these posts.

I also find it slightly unusual...it's not wrong though...just unusual though the tummy rubbing is possibly a bit much...and DH should perhaps stick to non sensoric areas like the back. Sorry if thaat sounds scientific...I ust think there are lines between Fathers and daughters and the front of them should not really be caressed.

"Since when was a tummy sexual? Why is that an area of her body that shouldn't be touched?"

Actually, no-one has a right to touch any area of her body. It's about comfortable touch and personal boundaries. Young women should be encouraged to develop an understanding of what is comfortable to them and appropriate to them, along with an understanding of sociological expectation and the reasoning behind those, regardless of the other party.

LadyB...it's not that all men are rapists...but teenage girls of 14 are almost women..and the front of their bodies is private...it IS a sexual area...

Plus lady B I think you will find enough posts on here abt mino girls wearing tummy exposing tops being innapropriate. So they are sexual.

Well if she is comfortable with it (which there is no indication that she isn't) then I don't see why or how it's an issue. She went to sit on his lap and it's normal to put your arms around the waist of someone sitting on your lap. So a bit of mindless tummy rubbing doesn't seem to me to be inappropriate at all.

Is he supposed to keep his arms pinned to his sides when she's sitting on his lap? Or is sitting on your dad's lap not okay when you're a teenager?

I think the issue might be that she is 14 & becoming a young woman.

Often by that age the girls like to be the ones initiating the cuddles with their father rather than the other way round.

If the daughter is OK with it-is that all that matters?

Does anyone think that there is an age at which this should stop or is it always OK if they are both OK with it?

LB, why wouldn't she be comfortable with it when she's conditioned to be so? It doesn't mean it's appropriate.

I think so long as both dad and daughter are happy that's all that matters, diddl - how can there be an age boundary?

Actually I think loads of the responses on this thread are really sad - why can't family members be affectionate towards each other without some loon thinking "abuse, abuse!!"

What is interesting is that most of the people expressing discomfort are those who didn't have very close relationships with their father or other male parent figure.

I am in that camp. I doubt very much abuse is taking place, but any man tummy rubbing a 14 year old girl would make me very uncomfortable to watch. I am sure, however, that my judgment is entirely clouded by my own (lack of) experience, and as I don't know your family, I don't feel qualified to judge.

"So a bit of mindless tummy rubbing..."

Stroking

It has been couched in a less sensational term by OP, who, with respect, has every reason to want to normalise this scenario.

I am not saying it is not normal but when another term is applied for the same action, does it still sound appropriate?