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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Do you have sex to keep the peace (or not)???

123 replies

worthless · 21/02/2011 19:21

I am starting my third thread ever on MN - do not want to go into my background threads but to sum up I am very unhappily married with a very unhappy last 18 months or so.......this has left me feeling totally withdrawn from my H and I am trying to find my way back emotionally and physically but not having much success!!! I am struggling in the bedroom department and this is THE DEPARTMENT that my H has said I have been failing in for many years! I have never been active enough for him if you know what I mean! I have always been a 1/2 week girl and he is a 4/5 times a week man!!!!

Last few months no action!!!!! I service him if WYKWIM!!!! But we do not have proper sex-I just cannot let myself go and H is so angry and hurt. I have begged for love and non sexual affection/cuddles for a set period in order for me to relax and feel loved and wanted for me but H just says that he is not prepared to give me that unless I have sex!!! He says that I can't just take and not give.......I can't get him to understand that I need to get love to give love (sex) do you understand???? Am I wrong expecting this or should I just lie back and thinkof England???

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dittany · 22/02/2011 15:12

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HerBeX · 22/02/2011 15:35

Larry you are disngenuous and dishonest as usual.

I can't be bothered with it, shall we concentrate on supporting the OP.

Malificence · 22/02/2011 19:14

Of course you can give sex as a gift and have the right to damn good sex to boot (simulataneously) - what a stupid statement.

I give myself to my DH, he gives himself to me, both of us have the expectation of great sex.

worthless · 22/02/2011 19:39

I have no problem with sex - I like it - if you think it relevant I am one of those lucky women who have multiple orgasms!!!! Shock horror that I have just written that. Physically I still fancy my H - even after nearly 30 years! It is just that as a person I don't want him. I do not find his personality attractive. His harsh words, his unkindness, his sexual harrassment, his lack of understanding and empathy, his demands and grumpiness are not qualities that I find attractive. I need to feel emotionally connected, I need to like him again, I need to feel loved and free of fear to get back my sexual side. I feel dead inside but want to be brought back to life again. Just wish he would see this and accept what I am feeling is normal. So many of you seem to say that you would feel the same too so it can't just be me can it?

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BertieBotts · 22/02/2011 20:02

No, it isn't you. The way you are feeling is totally understandable and justified. Honestly? The only way to get yourself back again is to leave. I know it isn't what you want to hear - I expect it doesn't feel "bad enough" but if you could experience what life is like without this you would be able to see the difference, you would be a different person.

I know you say you want to work on it and I know some posters have said you can't walk away without trying, but you have tried - you've been to counselling, you've tried compromising on sex, you've tried to get him to see your point of view. I don't know what else there is to try. You can't continue like this for the rest of your life.

HerBeX · 22/02/2011 20:42

W Please change your name.

Of course it's not you.

The problem is, he is refusing to take any responsibility for his part in making you feel the way you do.

For some reason (you don't explain what) he started calling you names, telling you you were crap and being abusive to you. And that is pretty much like someone having an affair - something that haunts you and has affected your desire for him. And instead of acknowledging that and understanding that he has to make up for his behaviour in order to get your desire back, he is simply demanding that you ignore it and sweep it under the carpet and not allow it to get in the way of what he wants. Which is a further abuse of you, because it is basically saying that he had the right to have an affair/ verbally abuse you/ do whatever else it was that people do to hurt their partners which then affects their partner's sexual response to them.

So basically, until he acknowledges that he has a fucking major atonement to undertake, you are never going to want him again.

Is that the gist of it?

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 22/02/2011 21:52

Worthy, I've been posting on everythread you start about this shitty, selfish, abusive man. You don't want sex with him because he is not a nice sexually desirable person, but a horrible abusive knob. It's a healthy reaction to be revolted at the thought of letting a man fuck your body when he is treating you with unkindness and contempt.
If there was any decency in this man, if he was a 'nice' man getting depressed at the lack of intimacy in the marriage then he would be workiing on a strategy with you not insisting that he gets to fuck your body no matter what you feel about it.

dittany · 22/02/2011 22:13

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ThatBloke · 22/02/2011 23:03

Blimey!

Good call on the name change HerBeX.

Seems you have little choice in this W.

Confrontation (calm & matter of fact-like) with him over his attitude & behaviour, then most likely some degree of counselling. It's unlikely that he'll see your point of view otherwise, but not unheard of. Sounds like a mess in there. (his head that is).

If you are up to it of couse. And it will be you, as I'm sure he hasn't posted anywhere or canvassed opinion about his shitty behaviour.

Not an easy path to chose, or you could just tell him to bugger-off.

Either way, it seems it's fallen on you to take the initiative. Hope you get some early resolve.

holyShmoley · 23/02/2011 09:24

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holyShmoley · 23/02/2011 09:29

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Anniegetyourgun · 23/02/2011 09:53

I'm so sorry you're still stuck in this, "Worthless", even though you have at least got him to cut down on the name calling (a very minor victory in an ongoing battle, but a victory nonetheless). If you really were such a crap wife he wouldn't be so keen to stay with you, would he? He's got very nearly everything he wants, now he just needs you to give up that last bit of individual existence, that last bit of human free will, and then of course you'll be perfect - how much do you think he'll respect you then?

I've said this before, but you really need to be prepared to leave him. If he realises you can and you might, that's the only chance he will review his behaviour. At the moment he is never, never going to see your point of view. Either he can't or he won't. Your point of view includes you being entitled to have your own feelings. His point of view is that you don't, or shouldn't, if they clash with his. Please read Lundy Bancroft, in particular the parable about the boy who was brought up to believe that a piece of land belonged to him and ended up behaving in a very unhinged way because nobody else respected his right to it. It was public land and his belief was mistaken. The moral was that men who grow up with the belief that a woman belongs to them, will service them with a smile for the rest of their lives etc, have a hard time giving up on that beautiful story but they have to let go of it if they want to rejoin the real world. Your H is stuck in that fantasy, and it is in his interests to continue to believe it. He has to be shocked out of it. Or he won't, but at least you will know you don't have to put up with it if you don't want to, and that will give you leverage.

Meanwhile I really, really strongly believe he ought to be encouraged to pull his own instead of getting you down on your knees (whether literally or figuratively). In my, admittedly probably skewed, view it's at least as degrading as letting him have his full way with you, though you are absolutely right not to settle for that.

Anniegetyourgun · 23/02/2011 10:02

Er, I think that went a bit rambly at the end of the long paragraph. Let's try again: your H has a vested interest in maintaining the fantasy. He will never see you as a real person unless he is forced to, ie by knowing you can and might leave him. However even this may not work. If it does not, you will know that you have leaving as an option, whether you choose to take it or not. It is your choice.

And for God's sake stop listening to your mother. It is not her life or her relationship. Like anyone else, she is inclined to be blinded by her own prejudices. I am myself, but I can assure you that in this case I am absolutely right. Trust me.

Envy about multiple orgasms. I think I nearly had a single one once.

BertieBotts · 23/02/2011 11:37

Annie's just reminded me of this, I hope you don't mind me copy and pasting.

Women's Aid Bill of Rights

  1. I have the Right to be me
  2. I have the Right to put myself first
  3. I have the Right to be safe
  4. I have the Right to love and be loved
  5. I have the Right to be treated with respect
  6. I have the Right to be human - NOT PERFECT
  7. I have the right to be angry and protest if I am treated unfairly or abusively by anyone
  8. I have the Right to my own privacy
  9. I have the Right to my own opinions, to express them and to be taken seriously.
10. I have the Right to earn and control my on money 11. I have the Right to ask questions about anything that affects my life 12. I have the Right to grow and change (and that includes changing my mind) 13. I have the Right to say NO 14. I have the Right to make mistakes 15. I have the Right NOT to be responsible for other adults' problems 16. I have the Right not to be liked by everyone
worthless · 24/02/2011 12:41

i do just want to thank you all again for your posts. Your comments all make sense and do give me the courage i need to see this through as it helps me see that i am not the one with the issue here although I accept my part in where we are now relationship wise!!
However I do wish I was as strong as some of you hard core MN's.....if I had been as strong as you seem then maybe I would not have ended up in this predicament :-(
I am definately going to attempt to speak to H tonight. I have a clear understanding of what I want to say and how I want things to change - change from both of us I feel.....will let you know how it goes. I will not back down, I will stay strong and make you all proud of me.

THANKS AGAIN FOR READING AND POSTING XXXXX

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Stac2011 · 24/02/2011 23:33

let us know how you get on and please change your name your not worthless

BertieBotts · 25/02/2011 14:34

Some of the strongest voices I know on MN are strong because they have come out the other side of something like this. I don't know that I am particularly strong in myself, I do remember how awful it was to feel powerless in a relationship such as the one you describe. It was getting out, finding my own feet and having the freedom to be myself which enabled me to think: you know what? I didn't go through all that shit just to stand by and let others go through it. I got out of that situation with the strength of mumsnetters behind me and you can do the same :)

I hope your talk went well last night.

worthless · 25/02/2011 15:14

Well didn't have THAT talk last night after all........H was in a very grumpy mood when he got in from work and I just knew that it was not going to be a good night to have a heart to heart!!!
I ended up telling him not to talk to me in the way he was doing though as it was not very nice. Not harsh words or anything like that but grumpy and with a horrible tone. He mentioned that his friend that he hadn't seen for years wanted to come for a visit to us this weekend. He lives other side of the country and not seen him for ages. I said wow that will be really nice to see him again how exciting. H replied that he had told him not to come as we were busy! Oh I replied why say that it would be lovely to see him again! He got even more grumpy when the kids said they wanted his friend to come too and basically told me to get off his case and back off! Swore at the kids (well not at them but used the F word when explaining why he did not want company)....explained later to the kids that swearing is wrong and that daddy should not have done it and that they musn't talk to people like that but should not have needed to do that should I???

He then griped at me for the rest of the evening and told me to just F off when I dared to critizise his behaviour!!!

There was me ready for a heart to heart along the lines of come on we are both unhappy with this loveless marriage let's just try and build a bridge/get close again/lots of affection/cuddles etc and then hopefully in a couple of weeks the intimate side will come back and instead I get a gentle reminder of what a twat he is!!!!!! Aaaagh - could scream!!!!

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PeterAndreForPM · 25/02/2011 15:40

Just leave him < sigh >

earwicga · 25/02/2011 18:40

Perhaps it would be better to write him a letter? He could then read it in his own space and think about it before responding to you.

earwicga · 25/02/2011 18:41

And it's going to take a lot longer than a couple of weeks.

Prolesworth · 25/02/2011 18:50

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HerBeX · 25/02/2011 19:20

Well he doesn't seem to be wanting to give anything to this relationship.

It takes two. You can't make a relationship on your own.

dignified · 25/02/2011 19:53

I dont think your H wants to get close again / build bridges / be affectionate ect. I think hes perfectly happy with the way things are and his refusal to improve things proves that.Abusers always withold the things you want, in your case affection and the very basic right to be heard.

He thinks he has a right to fuck on you whenever he likes whether you like it or not . After reading your other threads i think this man is severeley sexually abusive.

Ive been where you are ,and there are basicly 2 options. You either accept him as he is , or you come away from him. Spending your days thinking about how you might change him is futile . He wont change but you can.

There are no prizes for being a martyr to a man like this , no medals at the end . You say you dont like him and explain why . I dont blame you. But do something about it , there really is much more to life than servicing some nasty prick who treats you like shit.

Why do you want to make it work with this horrible man and how on earth could it ? Wouldnt it require a complete personality transplant on his part ? Its just not going to happen. Sometimes its better to accept that you are just not compatible or that some people are just not capable of giving you what you want .

worthless · 25/02/2011 20:42

Was going to do THE TALK tonight but H gone the pub with his mates. Went with the arse ache cos he had to walk in the rain as I could not give him a lift as I have already had a drink!

I did not know that he was going out and therefore needing a lift so I had a sneaky glass of vino with my supper and apparantly I have a drink problem as I had a glass of wine at 6 o'clock!!!!

Oh well least I've got a nice peaceful night with the kids. Watching a DVD with them with some nibbles and another glass of wine. Bliss.

PS DONE THE LETTER THING IN THE PAST - he rips them up and tells me to grow up! Then try talking and get shouted down or told to F off - so that's nice!!!!

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