Do you have sex to keep the peace (or not)???

[worthless]

I am starting my third thread ever on MN - do not want to go into my background threads but to sum up I am very unhappily married with a very unhappy last 18 months or so.......this has left me feeling totally withdrawn from my H and I am trying to find my way back emotionally and physically but not having much success!!! I am struggling in the bedroom department and this is THE DEPARTMENT that my H has said I have been failing in for many years! I have never been active enough for him if you know what I mean! I have always been a 1/2 week girl and he is a 4/5 times a week man!!!!

Last few months no action!!!!! I service him if WYKWIM!!!! But we do not have proper sex-I just cannot let myself go and H is so angry and hurt. I have begged for love and non sexual affection/cuddles for a set period in order for me to relax and feel loved and wanted for me but H just says that he is not prepared to give me that unless I have sex!!! He says that I can't just take and not give.......I can't get him to understand that I need to get love to give love (sex) do you understand???? Am I wrong expecting this or should I just lie back and thinkof England???

Littlehousebytheriver - love the name!!! No would not be with H now if I had just met him.....I am older and wiser.....just weak!

Know what I should do but now that H is not being so openly abusive to me and now that children are happier because H is not being so outwardly grumpy to me I feel paralysed. Feels so unacceptable to put my own happiness and self worth before the childrens. This makes me just put up with the quiet abuse, the loveless state of my marriage, the loneliness. The kids love their dad and even last year when things were really bad at home the kids still loved their dad. Unfortunately my son did hear my H call me a crap wife yesterday and this upset him. He said I am not a crap wife but a good wife and that he wants to marry someone as lovely as me :-) but he did also ask me "why did daddy say that"? I could hardly tell him it's because I don't want sex with him could I ?

Niceguy, I do agree with you - OP's feeling crap over this and her husband likely is too. But compromising over the physical frequency of sex is not likely to help this. All that happens in that situation is the OP will oblige but not really want to, so she feels resentful and used. Her husband can tell she's not really into it so sex feels empty and he feels rejected. Neither of them get what they want. So clearly this approach doesn't work.

IMO if sex is causing this much tension it needs to come off the agenda completely - not forever - temporarily. It's likely - as you said - that the husband is badgering for sex because he misses that intimacy and closeness and feeling of being loved - but there are other ways to show that you love someone. I'm sorry but I refuse to believe that sex is the ONLY way that men feel love can be demonstrated. OP probably feels pestered and like her husband isn't seeing her and not very loved either - so they need to work on ways of getting that connection back without it being sexual. Women need to feel safe to be able to have and enjoy sex - do you think it makes someone feel safe and secure when she's being pestered all the time?

OP you are not weak - it must have taken a lot of strength to post here.

Verbal/emotional abuse doesn't have to be open and obvious for it to affect children. It's possible they are picking up on things even if you think they are not.

Also - sorry I missed off the end of my last post. If one partner is not willing to work on the relationship without involving sex, it's not going to fix itself. The relationship is doomed, sooner or later.

Finding some of the responses to this thread really, really depressing :-(

Thanks earwicga

Worthy you are so loyal and determined to make a go of things I am humbled by you. I gave up in the situation you are in.

Could you maybe take the apparently well meant advice of niceguy at face value and offer your DH a deal?

If you plan a weekend away together he is under the express instruction to pretend he has never met you before. You are NOT his wife you are someone who MIGHT become his lover if he treats you right. His challenge is to try to seduce you, woo you with flattery and romance and persuade you that making love with him would be a life enhancing and lovely thing just like it (presumably) used to be for you.
Do you think you could spell that out to him?

And do you think he could understand that he needs to make the right noises and not just demand his rights petulantly?

There might be a chance as you both seem so keen to stay together.

Then if that fails and he just does his "I want sex and I want it now" caveman act you will know what to do!

ie knee him in the bollocks and run like the wind!

I can't understand how anyone can perceive this guy as "an otherwise decent guy"

He is abusive. He calls the OP names. He swears at her. He makes no effort to find out why she doesn't want sex, just expects it on tap.

How the fuck is that decent? How?

OP, you didn't say whether this abusive behaviour began recently, or if it has been a longstanding part of your relationship.

Ah yes, I knew she'd said it somehwere - she's always been a stepford wife, she's never had a mutually satisfying sex life.

What decent man is content for his wife to be left unsatisfied by the sex she's getting?

What decent man wants a stepford wife?

FFS.

HerBeX haranging Worthy in the third person and insulting her DH for her doesn't really help much.

Unless you think she will be somehow validated by your derision and see the light?

What do you suggest Worthy should do?

I'm not haranguing her, I was picking up on someone else's notion that her DH is decent. He so patently isn't.

I jsut can't beleive that for thirty years, she's had to put up with sub standard sex and now that she's had enough of it, instead of responding with concern, her H is demanding more of the same.

I personally think that she should leave him, since you ask, as I can't see someonee who has treated someone else with such horrible disregard for 30 years changing even with couples counselling, but it doesn't really matter what I think does it, it matters what the OP thinks (please change your name OP, I can't bear to call you worthless, you're not, that's just how your H has made you feel).

Just a note about putting your happiness above that of the children. Remember you and your H are role modelling adult relationships to them. So teaching them to expect loneliness, unhappiness, abusiveness... doesn't sound like good modelling to me.

worthless i have read through and was wondering what made things come to a head last year? Was it just a build up or a specific incident? It is not acceptable for your H to expect sex if you dont want it. What would he do if you couldnt have sex for medical reasons? Would he be understanding or leave you? Sounds like your life with him is habit rather than love. I know that you want to make it work and love him but fail to see how you can make yourself fall back in love iyswim. Also i dont think that by leaving your kids father it would stop them loving either of you. Most of the time the kids want away from the tension. What age are they? Kids are very intuative. Fwiw you are not worthless and defo should change that name

I totally agree with you HerBeX, especially about the modelling adult relationships thing.

When I finally plucked up the resolve to leave my DH after 28 years one of my many fears was that I may have left it late and damaged my DC.

Since I left both my DDs have met lovely boys who treat them with kindness and respect so I am being optimistic.

I hope they will set a good example for me to follow!

Isaid

If he's saying he won't show you affection unless you fuck him - well, let him fuck you - , he's going the wrong way about it. It's a two way street.

BertieBotts
Fuck's sake, what the hell is wrong with the male posters on here tonight?

What's happened to the reading ability of some posters on here?

Where has the OP gone?

well, let him fuck you

I think Bertie was taking this bit as your advice to the OP, rather than the way you meant it.

Still here - difficult with half term! I have been reading all the posts again and thank everyone for their comments!

It is hard though for people to comment when they only hear one persons side if the story and I am struggling with the responses of some posters. It makes my H sound awful. Maybe he is and it is me fighting that fact that makes Reading these comments so uncomfortable.

H tried again this morning for sex and again I tried explaining where I am with all this. Again he got cross and told me that he will be "nice, loving, kind " etc but I said "will be" is not enough - just words and I do not want empty promises I want actions! He is obviously so hurt and feels so unloved himself that it is painful to see his pain. However he again resorted to name calling, and again told me how fucked up I am and that I have got mental health problems! He quite clearly is very hurt and frustrated so I really must work out what to do before it destroys us both :-(

"He is obviously so hurt and feels so unloved himself that it is painful to see his pain. However he again resorted to name calling, and again told me how fucked up I am and that I have got mental health problems! He quite clearly is very hurt and frustrated so I really must work out what to do before it destroys us both :-("

No. YOU must not work out what to do before this detroys you both.

You say no to sex so he thorws his toys out of the pram, again, and starts insulting you, again?

Really? You want to make this better?

Then you need to finaly listen to what everyone is saying. This isn't the first time is it that you've posted about him.

How much more do you think you can cope with before YOU are detroyed.

Oh. Yes. What ENN said - I completely took that as advice - I see how it was meant now, I apologise.

Oh OP, why isn't he feeling pained to see your pain?

Why are you the only one with any empathy in this relationship?

You've got used to feeling his pain and not your own, haven't you? And feeling that his feelings matter more than your's.

And he thinks that too.

Think of your relationship (and sex life) as a bird with a broken wing. You know it needs kindness, time and caring to heal. You have told your husband this. But he still wants to heal it with a sledgehammer

He sounds vile. ye, to be honest, I would leave him. It doesn't sound like there is any love in the relationship.

But if you don't want to leave him, perhaps counselling (for him, cwertainly; perhaps for you both as a couple) could help? Something drastic has to change in the relationship, anyhow. A man who wants sex 4-5 times a week without showing you any affection has serious issues.

I don't think anyone has a right to sex in a relationship. It should be a mutually pleasurable activity.

Incidentally, HerBex, you apply an amazing double standard here of saying "no woman should have to put up with sub standard sex" whilst simultaneously saying that no man should be able to demand sex at all. Can you not see that?

I am amazed at someone who has been married 30 years with three children wanting sex 4-5 times/week and finding the time for it. I would think 1-2/times per week was far more normal.

As for advice, you need to get on as a couple before you even consider sex. Maybe I am strange as a man in that I would have no interest in sex unless I was getting on with someone at the time. If you cannot talk as a couple, you need counselling. Trading sex for affection will only lead to longer term resentment. However, leaving someone you have been with for 30 years should be a last and not a first resort.

Oh you never miss an opportunity to get in a dig at a feminist, do you Larry.

Firstly can you tell me where on this thread I've said that no man should be able to demand sex at all? Although of course you are right, no person has the right to demand sex of anyone else as of a right. The use of someone else's body is a gift, not a right.

And what is your problem with the assertion that no woman should have to put up with bad sex for 30 years? Do you think women should have to put up with bad sex for thirty years, or that men should? I personally am in favour of people enjoying sex, unless their enjoyment damages someone else. Now is there any other anti-feminist dig you'd like to make?

we tried councelling last year but it only made things worse. The relate councellor said that H was the most angry man she had ever met! He really does see this as my problem and says that I have so many issues. I was happy in our relationship and he hurt me very badly when things came to a head last year. He told me that he had not felt loved for a very long time and felt I was no more than a housekeeper and that I wasn't a good wife. For many years it is true to say that I was wrapped up in juggling work and young children and with very little support from my H. I suppose resentment crept in on both sides. He felt rejected and I felt overstretched and exhausted. Tried asking for more help from him on numerous occassions only to be told "just get on with it-that is what wives and mothers do".

So yes maybe it is partly my fault. But surely many men must feel that they take second place when there is a working mum and three children. I have always done my best but it is obviously not good enough!

Herbex,

I never miss the opportunity to expose hypocrisy for what it is, no matter what form it comes in. I had no clue you were a feminist!

Your second and third paragraphs are contradictory. Either sex is a gift or people have a right to good sex. You cannot have it both ways.