For those who don't practice monogamy (solidgold? etc) How on earth do you not become jealous?

[poshsinglemum]

I am just curious as I am the most jealous insecure person ever and it's a horrid and unattractice trait. Is jealousy natural?

SGB you are spectacularly missing or evading my point.

I was not arguing over whether what is in the bible or any other religious book is fact versus myth. I was taking issue with your post about Christianity being a collection of myths which is presented by you as a fact. There is a subtle yet very distinct difference. It is , in fact, your personal opinion.

You are fully entitled to that of course, but to try to pass off your opinion about the bible or Christianity as a fact- I can't see for example the Archbishop of Canterbury agreeing with you that the New Testament is comprised of myths- is not a very sound argument.

I didn't mean minority view in any kind of derogatory way. As it happens I think that 'society's view'of what is acceptable for relationships that involve romatic love and/or sex is hypocritical.

People have always found ways of opting out of lifelong monogamy. Before divorce was socially acceptable, affairs and lovers filled that gap and not just for the upper classes. Since divorce has been more socially acceptable divorce and/or serial monogamy has been a way of avoiding lifelong monogamy with the same person.

Throw into the pot the sex industry, porn, casual sexual encounters and other associated sexual outlets and there is a lot of scope for people to deviate from what society deems is 'acceptable'.

"I think it would be interesting to throw the sex out of the window here in this discussion and focus on caring, responsibility, love etc - for one person- rather than the alternative, which is loving no one especially and having several friendships which involve sex."

Well, yes, I think that is a huge part of a committed relationship but no-one would argue that it is morally reprehensible to love, care and be responsible for more than one's spouse - that role is required for bringing up children for a start. Wider family, close friends - what is wrong with loving and caring for them too?

But the thread was all about jealousy! Is there anyone out there who has negotiated an open relationship or other agreed non-monogamous sexual relationships with any degree of success?

I know a fair few people who have done.

I understand what you mean now tadpole and agree completely the disconnect between the lives are supposed to be living and the one they are actually living.

I was going to respond to another post about sexual networks and I did some workshops with teenagers in thus in a previous life...and unless both if you have only slept with each other then your sexual network is probably much wider than you realise, so safe sex whatever your situation is really important. It is often those who know that other sexual partners are in the picture that are stricter on condom use. A fact somewhat tragically illustrated in areas hit by HIV, where one of the most at risk groups are married women. Before anyone says that is far off in foreign land and things are different here....in this regard the overlap in attitudes is massive and pertinent.

With regard to jealousy....for me it is akin to knowing a close (non sexual) friend of mine has another friend, it doesn't either me. When I split with my husband lots of people were bemused I didn't care that he had an OW. But from my perspective she is a nice person who is good with the kids so happy days, on that front.

tad-Well, yes, I think that is a huge part of a committed relationship but no-one would argue that it is morally reprehensible to love, care and be responsible for more than one's spouse - that role is required for bringing up children for a start. Wider family, close friends - what is wrong with loving and caring for them too?

You are taking my quote out of context and manipulating it. Of course we can all love other people in our lives.

I am sure it is crystal clear to you and everyone else that I was talking about one primary sexual, committed relationship which involved love and responsibility- to a partner. Not a child, a parent, a bother , sister or anyone else.

The point you seem to bemissing cabbageroses is that there is no logical reason why a person can't love more than one sexual partner, just the same as people can love more than one sibling, or more than one child. WHile people's emotions are not always logical, it does get incredably tiresome when the proponents of the monogamy cult are just so incapable of getting their heads round the fact that other people are not like them. If you would find it distressing to engage in open relationships, then avoid them. But honestly, just piss off with the endless 'waa, waa, how can you possibly not be monogamous, what's wrong with you' because it's ever so boring.

Cabbagerose - I was really not trying to take your quote out of context and manipulate it. I understand what you were saying. But society does not condemn loving and cherishing lots of different people - partner, children, wider family, close friends etc. In general, there is condemnation for having sexual relationships outside a long term relationship/marriage.

"I am sure it is crystal clear to you and everyone else that I was talking about one primary sexual, committed relationship which involved love and responsibility- to a partner. Not a child, a parent, a bother , sister or anyone else."

Yes, I think I understood that, but to be honest I have a stronger sense of love and resonsibility towards my children than towards my partner. He is a grown-up. My children are not.

Also, I love my children unconditionally. Whereas my partner I do not love unconditionally.

SGB has hit the nail on the head. May I summarise?

Each to their own, as long as you are honest, legal and consenting. There is no right or wrong answer.

However I do think the people who insist monogamy is the true religion are a bit silly and naive. If it works for you luv, great. Don't impose your values on every bugger else!

Gay40, fair enough but you cannot convince me that my monogamous relationship is not more stable and more fulfilling than any non-monogamous one. I understand tadpole's point about the difference between the relationship with your children compared to that with your partner. I love my dd unconditionally and would lay down my life for her in a heartbeat; I have no doubt of that. But, my relationship with her will also change. She will grow up and become independent of me, need me less than and in different ways than she does now (she is 5).

It's not inconceivable to me that I could lay my life down for my dh, too; I'd certainly give him a kidney if he needed one and mine would help him. Our relationship is a strong foundation that supports the "me" I present to the world.

I don't think a non-monogamous relationship would give me anything that would be as valuable to me as that is.

Mshighwater: So your way of conducting relationships works for you. Lovely. Big fucking deal. Why's it so important to insist that what works for you muat be the right option for people who are not you? Monogamy-free relationships suit some people and work just fine for them: I know couples who have been together, without being monogamous, for 15 or 20 years and who are very happy. I have also encountered monogamous couples who are miserable.

What Gay said.

But also to add, why do people care so much about whom other people screw and when?

What Gay said as well but expatinscotland do people care because they feel threatened by the way others live their lives? because the other way just might be a better way?

Well, partly because the patriarchal society depends on ensuring women are monogamous. So they don't get Ideas Above Their Station. People in general are kind of somewhere on a sliding scale about how much monogamy they want or need in a relationship. But a lot of the monogamy obsession comes from the same sort of deep, longstanding, patriarchal mindset that makes the single mother with children by more than one father such a hate figure -a lot of it is a fear of women who won't submit to a man's ownership.

Personally, I'm monogamous in relationships. But if others aren't or don't do relationships or have sex how they please or no sex at all, who cares?

What I'm really struggling with here is the anger and fury that seems directed at those who prefer monogamous relationships.

This talk of "monogamy cults", "monogamy obsession" and "monogamy oppressing women" just sounds angry and uncalled for.

I don't see any of the same anger directed the other way. I see comments like "I prefer monogamy, I think it's better", but nowhere near the same vitriol coming from the other side.

I'm sorry, but it does sound as if some have a real problem with monogamy.

RitaLynn: It's not those who simply prefer monogamous relationships who are a problem. It's those who can't leave the monogamy-free alone, who either want to see them punished in some way, insist that free women must be chasing 'other men's husbands' or can't stop with the clammy-handed, gloopy-eyed 'But there must be something 'wrong' with you' ignorance.

I don't see women who want to sleep with several men at the same time being punished in the UK.

I think in defence of your accusations though

1. Some following a non-monogamous lifestyle have said "it's not their business to find out if someone's married", which doesn't excuse the husband, but isn't a fantastically ethical way to behave

2. By using expressions like "monogamy cult", one does give the impression there's something wrong with you

I've got a lot of sympathy for the idea that we humans are naturally non-monogamistic, but I also don't think (personally) it's the best way to live. However, if people want to date other non-monogamistic people, that's their prerogative.

I have been on both sides (bizarre as it is that there are "sides" on this thread). I have only had two relationships where I have felt jealousy, and one of those is with the man that I am now married to. I have had at least three relationships where we knew that they were not monogamous (although I don't remember any discussion about how it would work, it just did).

I don't think that I am naturally monogamous, to be honest. But monogamy is a price well worth paying to be in a relationship with DH. Particularly as he has fired up the jealousy thing in me and I would be very upset if he had another woman. It would be a bit hypocritical if I didn't live up to my own standards.

BTW, I know that women in the UK who have multiple partners are not "punished" in the physical or legal sense, but they is definitely a lot of disapproval.

I think those people who talk about women being owned by men are really living on another planet.

What is odd is this:
if people /women prefer monogamy, they are being oppressed, fed a dream, a fairy tale etc etc., under the rule of men etc etc - and a load of other stuff- rather than just simply prefering that type of relationship. (Actually this just seeems to reinforce the notion that women are hopeless creatures without brains who need to be kept down by men.)

Whereas if people prefer non-monogamy, they are free-spirits who have got it just right and are not succumbing to any pressures from the nasty big patricarchal society which is trying to tame them.

Condescending clap trap or what?

If monogamy is some kind of oppression, surely it's men who are equally oppressed in this. Maybe it's the oppressive matriarchy that's to blame here.