If you hit your OH then YES you are as much an abuser as he would be if he hit you.

[QueenGigantaurofMnet]

I have just seen someone on another forum discussing how she couldn't possibly have been an abuser. she has only hit her husband twice (although the second time she hit him twice as she enjoyed the fear and shock in his face) in the 15 years of their marriage.

the rest of the forumn are telling her that it was ok. they are both "headstrong"

other are saying things like "i wish i could hit my oh"

It makes me feel sick.

Violance on a relationship is wrong. It is called Domestic violance, not man hitting wife violance.

if you have hit your partner then you ARE an abuser and you SHOULD be looking at ways to deal with your anger.

Im sorry but i am actually quite angry about this

I'm not comparing a child hurting you to a man abusing, of course not! I was talking about the person mentioned in the OP's scenario, massive arguement, DH follows her, hurts her toes with the door, she punches him in the face. I'm just saying, if you would react to the situation different;y if it were your child ("8yo DS and I were having a big fight, I tried to leave, he followed me and shut the door on my toes so I punched him), well, that's just completely wrong isn't it? And if you would be able to control yourself if it were a child, why can't you control yourself if it is your husband?

In that case, it isn't being quick tempered, or headstrong or whatever, it is choosing to strike out at someone deliberately.

I agree with the OP completely, in that violence is not taken seriously if it is from a woman against a man. End of.

has a single person on this thread advocated that violence is acceptable, pen? you can't keep spinning that line, there is no case to answer on it.

i agree that sounds like a vile situation, and i hope that couple had some serious time to talk about it, tbh.

however, i think given that QG utterly shat out of addressing the poster directly, it's probably not a great case to bring up again. it sounds vile, however they got over it, thank goodness, without being lectured by QG.

QG had ample opportunity to speak to that poster on the thread, to delve further and perhaps explain her point better if she wanted to, but she flounced instead.

Im not sure why she should address any one particular poster. she used something she saw elsewhere in vague terms. she did not link to it or C&P it. she did not identify anyone in any way. She repeated that it wasn't about the specifics of that case but the attitudes that surrounded it.

And from what i have seen she has deregistered due to many factors, not least the fact she is being rounded on for believing that violence is wrong for both genders.

ClareVoyant Mon 24-Jan-11 01:30:26

has a single person on this thread advocated that violence is acceptable, pen? you can't keep spinning that line, there is no case to answer on it.

Every post here trying to defend someones violemnt action, everyone on here that was incredibly rude to QGOM simply because they recognised their own vile stance being derided, all the posts that were trying to excuse violence as the woman just snapped. they were saying that violence is ok in some situations and that is just wrong.

"they were saying that violence is ok in some situations and that is just wrong".

no, they weren't.

they were saying that they weren't abusers.

Penelope // they were saying that violence is ok in some situations and that is just wrong.

no, they where not saying violence is ok...they were saying "to snap" on an occasion does not automatically make you an abuser.

sorry but as there are still people who think that victims of abusers are responsible, are "asking for it", are contributing to it and to some extent they deserve it...
Now...this is a preconception worth fighting for.
To put all violent acts on the same level does nothing to break such vile misconceptions immo

I think there were some on the thread that really didn't see that their actions should be considered in the same terms (whatever you wish to call it) as if a man hit a woman.

I think that was what QGOM was trying to get at and i think she was right.

Whether you want to name an action as abuse is up to you. I certainly do think that if you react with violence on more than one occasion you do need to look at your issues around either anger or what caused your outburst.

But having read this thread I wanted to read the example to get my own picture and so i did go and have a look at the other site. I think the person in OP's example goes on to deny how violant she is by explaining that the other time she was aggressive was to punch a man to the floor in a bar. she says it was provoked because he passed some rude comment about/to her.
I think that given the incidents that that one poster managed to give i do think that she has issues with aggression and anger. But her peers were dismissing such claims because she was so lovely. She couldn't possibly be a violent person because they knew her and know that she just isn't like that.

I am sorry but i did read parallels to the well respected community member that goes home and beats his wife.

Now to clarify i am not saying that her husband is some poor dowtrodden and abused man. But i can see why Op was so upset with what she saw.

And some of the comments she recieved early on in this thread "do you wear the trousers" "men who wont be pushed around" inferring that a woman who is in an equal and respectful relationship must be living with a less macho man. That really did make me go all cats bum im afraid.

sorry but as there are still people who think that victims of abusers are responsible, are "asking for it", are contributing to it and to some extent they deserve it...

yes they do. Most abusers use the line "she just wouldn't shut up, she kept following me and i just snapped. I wont ever do it again, im so sorry.......

never seen that on here, tbh, MNers don't chuckle at violence, as a rule. so what was she lecturing us for, and making such adolescently sloganish statements as 'if you hit your OH then YES you are as much an abuser as he would be if he hit you'. if she wanted to turn that BMC thread around, i'm sure she could have done, but she couldn't be arsed.

i think she said that following what she saw she had no desire to join that site. Which given the attitudes i saw there and then those bought over here, I can understand.

I don't think that saying violence should be treated with equal disdain is childish at all.

penelope yes they do. Most abusers use the line "she just wouldn't shut up, she kept following me and i just snapped. I wont ever do it again, im so sorry.......

I did not say abusers I said PEOPLE in general... hello!
you changed the meaning of what I said, sorry

i don't think that's what i said, did i? i believe what i said was that her subject line was 'adolescently sloganish'.

the spinning on this thread is sickening, actually, and very disrespectful to victims of abuse.

she was trying to provoke a fight (ironically enough, QG is pretty combative herself, both passively and actively on this thread) and she got one, it would seem from the people on the MN and the BMC threads she was referring to.

the woman concerned came over and spoke to QG directly, more than once - QG flounced. speaks volumes, imo.

In my case I was in an abusive relationship and a couple of times I slapped my P after listening to him calling me a slag and various other names for hours on end. I'm not sorry at all and he deserved a lot more than that. Oh he did get up and punch me in the stomach though afterwards. I always said to him if I was bigger than him I would have battered him for the way he treated me. Also, women who snap and kill their partners are not abusers either.If I'd stayed with my P I would have ended up poisoning the cunt. I don't understand women who are sorry for hurting their partners after they have been verbally abused.

hence diminished responsibilty, spikey. like i say, the law allows for 'differences of wrongness' day in, day out... but of course it's black and white when speaking to the moral guardians of MN.

Clare

the spinning on this thread is sickening, actually, and very disrespectful to victims of abuse.

totally agree. And tbh is shocking to think that it was coming from a person that was herself a victim of continued abuse. In fact it saddened me because - and I mean thins in the most sincere and honest way - it felt like OP is still very much affected by what happened to hear and still have a long way to go wrt her own repressed anger

what happened to her (spellling!)

With respect, and yes I am a poster on the other forum (who would guess such a thing from my name), there was a lot of slanging from both sides on this thread. I don't think anyone would make light of abuse - there is a lot of jokey banter 'over there' as most posters know each other quite well. It was a comment taken out of context and held up for examination which has stirred up a lot of emotion. Maybe a line should be drawn under this now as there seems to be nothing much constructive coming from this.

I thnk what people may be missing is the overall power dynamic: that men are generally and widely (on a cultural, subconscious level in many cases) expected to be the bosses, the authority figures and the owners and controllers of women. Men are mostly bigger and stronger than women (though obviously not in every case, there are big strong women and weedy little men). Men are also expected to be more inclined to physical aggression.
So women showing more sympathy to a woman who hits out at a man are possibly siding with the one they percieve as the underdog in the situation, lashing out because of being cornered and trapped. Of course, this may not be true of every situation, women are not incapable of being abusive bullies.
But I would say in general that anyone who gets hit once by a partner should examine his/her whole relationship before deciding whether to stay or go ie is this physical assault the culmination of a pattern of bullying, undermining behaviour?

I think SGB speaks much sense.

Violence is not OK, but there is a difference in what happens next based on context.

Hitting out in frustration, at someone who isn't physically frightened of the victim, by someone who feels powerless, and then is fully aware of the awfulness of their lack of control and takes steps to address it is very different from someone who deliberately uses violence to intimidate someone who is weaker than them (whether psychologically, emotionally, physically, even financially if dependency is involved), and fully intends to continue maintaining and re-inforcing that power balance, using fear.

That goes equally for male/ female or female/make violence.

It is a Bad Thing. It ALWAYS needs addressing, but haranguing people who don't immediately choose the 'LEAVE HER' option doesn't take account of any context, intention and possibility for change.

We don't take the children of exasperated one-off slapping mother's into immediate care. Why is that?

Sorry - I meant hitting out at a victim who isn't physically frightened of or intimidated by the hitter.

yyy to sgb and blu.

am still catching up from last night, so sorry if this is disjointed:

Add message | Report | Message poster RamonaFlowers Sun 23-Jan-11 22:31:42
But Lissie I didn't want to leave my DH. I adore him. He's my world. We had a big stupid argument and he wouldn't hear my hurt, so I snapped and thumped him.

I didn't thump him for the reasons topknot hit her P. But she can speak for herself.

There was no systematic emotional abuse in our relationship. We were a normal happy couple, who had one big stinking row which I reacted wholly inappropriately to. I can't take back what I did, and it leaves it's scar of course, but I don't mind stating that I feel DH and I have a flipping fantastic marriage. There is still romance, there is still great sex, the load of the DC"s is shared equally. We hang on in there - we cry on each other's shoulders. We think the same things are stupid on TV. It's crazy to suggest we should have split up as a result of my one moment of madness.

I wasnt saying that you should split up, as I stated earlier, I dont hold with the "leave him now, he forgot to get the milk" brigade, and I dont think that one off acts should end a marriage. but I think that a woman hitting a man should be treated with the same level of contempt as a man hitting a woman

StuffingGoldBrass Sun 23-Jan-11 22:49:33
I do think there is a difference between a one-off loss of temper and ongoing abuse. Usually an abusive person has worked up to actual hitting in a series of stages, sulking, making unreasonable demands, hitting objects, 'accidentally' hitting/pushing the partner etc.

Also, there are some abusers (I think there was a thread about this recently) who abuse by deliberately provoking the partner, who is smaller and maybe weaker, to the point where s/he lashes out so s/he can be publicly humiliated and terrorized further.

I agree, but again, what worries me is the thought that "its ok if its the woman lashing out" it isnt. a relationship isnt necessarily over if oner of you loses your rag. but its not ok!

noone is saying that lashing out after a sustained period of abuse makes you the abuser, but that is a relationship that is already very wrong. what I am saying is that punching your oh in the face during a row is not excusable. ever.

oh and although I didnt think this thread was necessarily about one poster, I just wanted to do this. C&P'd from McHobbes post:

"It was ridiculous. We were in the throws of a full on hurling insults and swearing row. I could see it was becoming farcical, so tried to remove myself from the situation to let it calm down. Shee followed me. I walked away again and went into another room. She followed, still bawling her head off.
Lastly I went into the sitting room and stood with my weight against the door to stop her coming in after me. There ensued a ludicrous struggle with me trying to hold the door shut, and her trying to open it.
Eventually she won over and the door burst open, catching my bare (cold) foot at the bottom and scraping the skin off my four toes.....she hadn't done it deliberately but it hurt like fuck....so when her face appeared round the door, I saw red and punched it. Twice.

and thats still ok?

TheShriekingHarpy Mon 24-Jan-11 00:47:43
If QG is in that camp, then she's at least consistent. I see a trend in MN - one which exonerates, justifies and takes the softly, softly approach to women who commit one off violent offenses, yet when an equivalent male is guilty of the same thing, he's declared an abuser.

totally agree

She? I'm pretty sure that Hobbes's partner is a bloke.

And Hobbes didn't say it was ok - she said she felt terrible about it and didn't say that it was 'ok'.

It is so easy for words to be twisted and taken out of context so I think I shall step away from this thread.