Inappropriate touching or am I over-sensitive?

[picknmix100]

I recognised that I was in an emotionally abusive relationship 2 years ago and addressed it with DH 18 months ago. This resulted in him moving into the spare room and doing various things to help him with his difficult behaviour. Although his behaviour has improved a bit, it's not enough for me to want to emotionally committ to him again or share a bed. The comments he makes and the half-hearted way he has committed to counselling makes me realise he doesn't really accept that he has been EA, he just thinks he is depressed and I am accusing him unjustly.

Recently he has started to really pressure me into moving back into the bedroom, stating that it is embarrassing if people know and damaging the kids that we have separate rooms and blaimed me for his Dad not sleeping over Christmas night. He no longer respects the bedroom as my space and keeps coming in at night.

Alongside this he has started to touch me an awful lot. He keeps patting my bum and adjusting my clothing around that area, uninvited. He does this when I am doing something where it is hard to move away. He often stands in such a place that I have to squeeze past him. He did this on holiday and pushed his groin into me as I squeezed past. My DS noticed and was revolted.

Yesterday he deliberately brushed his hand past my top. I always move away when he does this type of touching. He knows I don't like it by my body language. I have told him I do not want him back in the bedroom as I do not feel things are sufficiently changed. This is happening in a relationship where we are not intimate anymore and he knows how I feel. I feel this touching is not right.

I know I will get blasted by MNs for still being in house with him but we have had very unusual circumstances this last 18 months death, illness, redundancy etc and the time has not been right.

I just want to know if he is behaving inapproriately given the circumstances or if he is just a normal husband frustrated at the situation. I made it clear I was not happy earlier when he touched me and he said its just that he finds me very attractive at the moment. He is now not talking to me. He's also started to make sexual references about me. Perhaps he thinks it will help get our relationship back on track.

picknmix - please don't doubt your reality and the situation you are in because of a few posters who really got the wrong end of the stick last night.

Both SGB and AF know what they are talking about. No way would he get custody and no way would he want it. It's just another stick to beat you with. If in doubt see a solicitor.

Oh and try and disengage i.e. try not to let him get you involved in arguments that are going nowhere; getting you to explain your perfectly reasonable behaviour; getting embroiled in discussions about feelings - when it is all about his feelings and none of it about your etc. You are going to need those skills, I suspect, after he leaves as he will try and get back into the relationship.

picknmix threatening to get custody of the children is absolute textbook behaviour when abusive men fear they are losing control and that their partner may leave.

They very rarely go through with it, but even if he did: You are the childrens mother. You are their main carer. Their primary attachment is to you. No court would ever seek to change that unless there were concrete proof that you were seriously harming or neglecting them. Trust me - he cannot take your babies away. Don't allow his threats to bully you into remaining in a situation that is harming you.

He has absolutely no right whatsoever to touch you when you do not want him to - whatever he believes the status of your relationship is. He is still abusing you. He is doing it in front of your children. It isn't your fault.

look pick, at least one of the posters that didn't "get it" last night are well known for posting things that go against common sense, tbh

and that is putting it politely

don't let them get under your skin

you are completely in the right here, and don't doubt it x

agree with AF.

i got your first 2 posts wrong OP. Not sure why I read them as you still wanted to stay in this relationship and were playing some kind of sick game
(you wrote : I guess I feel that if he wants us to get back together he should be making real efforts to change and develop our relationship)
Forgiven?

Hi Justfor...yes, of course forgiven! But you have made me think that I haven't been clear enough with him. He knows we are semi-separated but we haven't yet made a full break.

I was very unsure at first because his behaviour was often very insidious. He has never hit me, sworn at me or called me names. He's much more subtle - lots of mind games, 'justified' control and put-downs/critism. I questioned myself. Was I wrong in wanting to give up a relationship and break up our family? That's why I sought advice of different agencies. I wanted to be sure I was right that this was not a normal way to be treated and was surprised at the strong reaction they gave to the abuse. I am also very afraid of going it alone. My BF has had to and she really struggles. Reading Pinkhair's thread though has given me hope and lots of information. She's done really well.

Thanks Dittany - I feel the touching is wrong. It feels creepy. The other thing he did last night that I didn't mention (feels a bit base to be honest, but I'll say it anyway) was that he had a pain in his groin and started really complaining about it. Then he started to nag me to have a look at it later for him. I said no I didn't want to and he kept going on. I carried on saying no - no point not Dr and I don't want to anyway. Go to Drs if worried. He gave up. I was eating my dinner at the time. He has also knocked on the bathroom door a few times and offered to scrub my back and other bits when i am in the shower. He did this on holiday in front of the kids (just my back then!). It all feels creepy in the context. But again its insidious - he's not overtly attacking me. All subtle.

Yes, vile is a good word. How did he end up like this, it's so sad. The locking door thing worried me too. It wasn't the fact he locked the door, as he did that for a different reason, but the fact he then thought about locking me in to keep me there. This is what I worry about if I leave. I'm not sure what he is capable of. He threatens to hurt himself but I often feel uneasy around him. My sister has voiced her concerns about this too and my SIL suggested that she and BIL help remove him from house, as she was uneasy about how he would take news of split. Not sure how BIL would feel about this though. I would prefer to do it differently.

Do you think it would be considered sexual assault in law? Do you think he might get worse? My experience of him is that he focuses on a particular approach which he uses and develops until I get wise and start to assert myself or work a way round it. He then seems to focus on a new approach. This has gone on over the years. My worry is that this is the new tactic and where it might lead (especially from what you are saying, Dittany)

The book that dittany has said about, I have it here and almost finished reading it if you would like to borrow it I will post it out to you, very helpful book? Private message me with your address if you would like it? :-)

Picknmix, this sounds very frightening and absolutely sickening. I'm so sorry for you. P

You have opened your eyes to this man's behaviour over a number of years - don't close them now.

The fact that your close family seem to be extremely worried about your welfare concerns me greatly. Please consider getting him out of the house asap.

I think you have to listen to your screaming intincts and his chilling remarks and take them seriously. Very best of luck my love.

(As for the other posters who got the wrong end of the stick, I hope others on here will be generous and accept a) not everyone understands EA and b) that sometimes what is initially presented by OP is not clear. So for example in a 'normal' relationship where there is a semi/grey separation, this husband's behaviour could have legitimately been seen as innocent moves to initiate intimacy/closeness again, albeit in a clumsy way.)

It sounds like you are utterly repulsed by him. For his sake as well as yours, I really think you need to end this relationship.

I actually feel really sorry for the guy.

Just end it. You obviously feel uncomfortable with the things he is saying and doing, and he is still doing them, and I think that makes them abusive even if in another context they would be fine.

This is never going to go anywhere positive by the sounds of it.

Hi OP. This sounds like a nightmare. But I guess I'd have to say that although it would clearly appear to be your H who kicked things off, you do now seem to be perpetuating it.

Your posts suggest that you find him completely odious, and yet you continue to live in the same house as him. I realise that the decision to seperate is a massive one and is fraught with complications, esp with a 12 yr old involved, but the current situation sounds untenable. You suggest that the reason you have delayed leaving is because you're scared - this sounds harsh, but I don't think that's good enough (if you are scared that his abuse may escalate then please speak to someone in RL about this). In essence, you seem to have arrived at a compromise (not leaving, just seperate bedrooms). The thing about compromises in situations like this is that they normally prolong the agony and exacerbate the damage being caused to everybody involved. This may seem harsh because his behaviour kicked things off, but you have chosen to respond and I really hope you find the courage to go all the way.

I'm not saying this to justify the touching etc. It does sound inappropriate but from a neutral perspective, it comes across to me as a slightly desperate attempt for some kind of intimacy rather than anything more sinister (obviously, I don't know your H like you do). Although you have been clear about the situation re bedrooms, I don't think you've mentioned whether you have explicitly spoken to him about the touching (apologies if I've missed that). This is something you have to do.

The answer to your question in your latest post, "Do you think it would be considered sexual assault in law?" could actually be very interesting and may point you in the right direction in the future. My experience of this side of the law is limited (though not non-existent), but I would suggest that although his behaviour fulfills the criteria for sexual assault, it is unlikely that any court would convict on the basis of what you have said.

I absolutely am not labelling you as an abuser. It sounds like you have had a horrible time and have responded as best you can manage. Please make sure you get the RL support you need to take that response to its logical conclusion - whatever that may be - and get out of this limbo. And be awaqre that it does sound like you now have a great deal of control over him in certain aspects of your relationship (his desire for intimacy/sex, his desire to go back into your bedroom) and that control needs to be handled carefully.

Oh, and please don't delay further action for the sake of DS. The sooner he has stability and well defined relationships with both parents the better. There will be some painful times coming up I guess, so really good luck to you.

Omg

I've been thinking hard about why I am still here. It is partly fear but it is also about what if I am wrong. I don't think I am wrong about the EA - too many others have pointed it out or confirmed it, but should I have tried harder to help him overcome his problems? I have helped him on a practical level but shut off emotionally 2 years ago. And the reason for this is that I basically have had enough of him emotionally and don't want to try again. Part of me thinks that if I just gave him a big hug and said we could try again, he would try really hard to behave better. BUT would it last? and I really don't think I can. So I feel guilty that I haven't done this. How much am I responsible for?

YOU are responsible for NONE of it..

I agree with the other posters, but i know how you are feeling pick, i have been there, its horrible, you blame yourself, think maybe i could try harder, do things different, but believe me they wont change.

It took me from when i first started noticing how H was treating me about nearly 18 months to leave, and i tell you something, i have had so much support on here and from friends in RL, otherwise i think i would still be with H now. It is hard i wont lie to you, but it does get easier in time.
Everything you have said in your post above i have been there and felt it, it is normal to feel like that, thats how being EA makes you feel.

You said about the touching bit you dont like it when H does it, i was the same, my H used to do it on purpose to, he would come up behind me and cuddle me, but rub himself up against me from behind, and i hated it, i had sex with H for a couple of times, but like i said before there was nothing there it was horrible, no emotion, and he used to just walk away afterwards.

Try and stay strong and speak to a solictor aswell, or CAB please.

You must understand Pick that your partners behaviour really has nothing to do with you and how you act.

He is 100% responsible for how he behaves and he is the only person that can change his behaviour. There is nothing you can do to help or change him. He can only help or change himself.

Unless he takes serious steps towards addressing his issues he will go on to abuse other partners too. I don't know if he had a partner previous to you but I don't doubt that if he did he will have abused her as well. This is because his abusive nature is a part of him and nothing to do with the women he becomes involved with.

Please don't blame yourself for this situation. It isn't your fault. You have simply been coping with his abuse the best you can. Your priority now has to be to keep yourself and your children safe. This man does not have your best interests at heart. He is not on your side. He is harming you and will continue to do so until you get him out of your home and out of your life.

It's great that you have so much real life support. Utilise it.

We have a poster up at work that has a saying I really love on it:

"A woman is like a teabag. You never know how strong she is until she gets into hot water."

It's true I think. You need to gather together all your courage Pick and do what you know you've got to do. I really do wish you all the very best.

Thank you all for your workds of support. He has never been violent to me. He did mention something about "some men would hit their wives for that" a couple of times earlier in our relationship, I can't remember. I was very firm with the boundaries on that - I told him he would be out the door. He concentrated instead on controlling what I wore (no flesh on display except arms and face and ankles OK if I wasn't doing anything active with kids; who I saw - he doesn't like me having friends and going out. He has been rude to my family often. He used to tell me no one liked me, even my family,and I believed him as I had no friends and was new to area. Then I realised it was rubbish and now have friends and go out. He doesn't like them. He's just keeps implying me and BF are in sexual relationship and calling her my "girlfriend". There's more but have to go to appointment. Back later. thanks again x

Sorry to sound oversimplistic but cannot see how leaving this relationship is a difficult decision. Think of the relief of having the house to yourself. Good luck with ending it and having feeling free and safe in your own house x

eww, vile vile man

he may not have hit you physically but the mental, sexual and emotional abuse was right there

he also tested he waters didn't he early by saying "some men" hit their wives

I think the fact that you have been relatively resistant to his manipulation means you are not a battered wife today

I am sorry, but that is how serious I am taking what you have already said about him

and I will eat my scarf if there isn't lots more behaviour of a demeaning and belittling nature from him towards you

end this relationship

Hi pick. Don't feel guilty.. you are no longer in a relationship with this man emotionally or physically.. it is not your job to help him overcome his problems, it sounds like you've given him more than enough chances. His treatment of you is terrible- do you want your son to think this is acceptable behaviour? It's time to make a proper break and ask him to move out (or if you prefer move out). You'll be so much happier when the break is made.