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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help - my world is falling apart

122 replies

tomorrowsanotherday · 23/12/2010 21:33

I have been with DP for nearly 8 years now and we were about to start trying for a baby in a few months time.
I love him to pieces and I thought he felt the same about me.
He is not from this country but has had the right to live here permanently for the last 6 years or so, so no question of him only being with me for that.
My battery on my mobile is dead and I just used his mobile to send a text. Found a message written in his native language that is very sexually explicit.
I am distraught but haven't let on that I have seen it yet.
What do I do?
I suffered from severe depression several years ago and in the last few months it has been rearing its head again.
Twice this week I have come home from work and cried for hours.
This is at the worst possible time.
Please someone talk to me

OP posts:
FlightoftheCrimbleTree · 24/12/2010 10:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

Lydwatt · 24/12/2010 11:39

just wanted to add my support to EP and state that any form of racism is unacceptable here.

Hounding pepole with personal abuse who express an opposite opinion to yours is also unacceptable.

We are supposed to be supportive

LittleMissHoHoHoFit · 24/12/2010 14:40

I apologise. I am normally very careful to write SOME when I refer to Egyptians, so as not to offend anyone. I had had a glass of wine, and forgot SOME.

I never meant to generalise, and as I stated, don't usually.

I did truly suffer in that place at the hands of literally every one of them I met. I ended up with agoraphobia and even 18m back home am still traumatised. I do loathe the land and the people I came across, but that gives me no right to insult people on here, no matter what they call me.

OK, back to the matter at hand. Tomorrow, there are Farsi speakers or people with access to them, so please if you need help, PM them and you can get the message translated properly so you know exactly what you are dealing with.

Let us know what you need from us and we will do whatever we can

FlightoftheCrimbleTree · 24/12/2010 15:03

I'm guessing I was deleted because I quoted a lot of the also-deleted, offensive posts?

Best they are gone and the quotes from them also gone.

Thanks MNHQ.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 24/12/2010 15:03

I also want to apologise.

Wine had been consumed, and I was sticking up for my mate (LittleMiss) who I know has suffered terribly living within that culture (and is still recovering from the aftereffects....)

I also neglected to notice that the word "some" was omitted but I have seen her rant before on this very topic that is so personal to her, and no-one has ever stepped up to say they were offended previously.

I hope the derailing of the thread (by all concerned) didn't prevent OP from getting some support

(am not sure why flights posts were deleted, and I did read them before they went)

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 24/12/2010 15:05

x posted with flight

yes, that must be why they went

FlightoftheCrimbleTree · 24/12/2010 15:07

thankyou, AF, for saying that - crossed posts! I think tey deleted them because they were basically a list of quotations from other people, signed off with a bit of my own outrage! Xmas Smile

Good on you for apologising. I can see where you were coming from. When you are used to hearing something, it can be easy to lose sight when a line is crossed.

I hope OP gets the help she needs, too.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 24/12/2010 15:15

I have chatted to LM lots about this

as far as I can tell, she is not a racist, and would be upset that someone would think so

however, by her own frank apology, I know she will word her own opinion a bit more carefully next time

that opinion that we all would say she is entitled to, whether we agree wih it or not

I happen to agree wih it, because I also have personal family experience of cross-cultural marriages going horribly, horribly wrong

FlightoftheCrimbleTree · 24/12/2010 15:25

That's understandable. Had I had a major run in with several hundred bus drivers I might well have an opinion on bus drivers as a genre.

It wouldn't mean all of them were dreadful though and it would be dangerous and wrong to propagate the view that they are.

These thoughts do need to be massively qualified in order to be publicly stated. But I think we all realise that now.

egyptianprincess · 24/12/2010 19:06

Thanks LittleMiss and AF. Apology accepted. LittleMiss, I really am sorry you had such a bad experience in Egypt.

MrsColumbo · 24/12/2010 19:34

Tomorrow - to get back to your original post, I can only agree wholeheartedly with the others who have advised agaimst having a baby with someone you do not trust and who has caused you so much grief. Please don't do it - your chance to have a baby with someone you really do love and trust will happen. Children with this man will remind you of him, and potentially affect your relationship with them, which is fair to no-one.
You really are worth so much more than this - even if he has told you that you will never find anyone who loves you like he does, or even that you're lucky to have him. If you were reading this thread from another woman, or a friend of yours was in this position, would you advise her to cut and run? Don't let him fool you into thinking that you don't have the strength to leave him, or that you can't cope on your own - he is the one who's frightened of being on his own without you to fall back on. Be brave and make a happier life for yourself. Good luck.

LittleMissHoHoHoFit · 25/12/2010 01:04

Thanks guys. I am 42, have made some classic errors in my life. The decision to trust a man and leave my entire life and go there was the biggest mistake of my entire life.

I wanted a baby with this bloke, I wanted to be the one he was with. I adored him, he was my everything.

We'd been on holidays before, he treated me like a queen. I'd known him for 5 years, living together for 3yr in the UK. He'd had been British since 1990, he had money, I had money, I thought this was IT. I thought I'd done it all right this time.

He changed the minute we arrived there.

I was abused by him, I was beaten by him. in front of DS a couple of times. I have photos of bruises.

I was told what women out there did and had to do to be a 'good wife'. i was not allowed to raise my voice, if I did, I was punished. Everything I did, said and thought was wrong apparently, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Add to this what the others did to me, being followed, photographed, stolen from, lied about, misquoted to start huge rows with 'H' and ideally break us up. Overtly filthy looks from female strangers, nasty comments. It was literally hell. I have said before that the only reason I didn't walk into the sea was because I didn't want to die in that place.

There were days and days I couldn't even look out of the window for the hatred of where I was and what and who I was surrounded by. I was kept indoors initially for literally months at a time without any interaction with anyone. no telly, no phone calls to my family. Only me, my 7/8m old DS and constant calls from local women wanting to shag H, being rude to me in a language I didn't speak, but H not believing me and not putting a stop to any of it.

I'm getting there. When HE leaves in Feb, DS and I can start our new life alone.

I wish I could let go of it all. Maybe when he is finally out of my life..

Again, I'm sorry.

The lesson I learned? Be VERY careful what you wish for.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 25/12/2010 09:27

LM, have a peaceful xmas

and I sincerely hope 2011 can help you move forward, without him x

suburbophobe · 25/12/2010 12:03

Little Miss, your story reminds me of that harrowing book "Fatwa" by Jacky Trevane - shudders -

And reading "Daughters of Shame" is so sad to know the experiences some women are having (one of a woman who was totally under the spell of a man who abused her, took her to his country and prostituted her).

I had an "exotic marriage", albeit short, and am happy to be a single mum with a beautiful, well-balanced teenager! I'm well out of it, and glad he too is back in his country.
The abuse started shortly (2 weeks) after the marriage - they've got you where they want you then - and escalated when I was pregnant.

We are going to visit next year as he had threatened to take his son with him (Muslim fathers have all the rights), my son will be 20 then.
Have you heard of Reunite? So glad I never got into that heartbreaking situation!

OP, of course you will be fine on your own, I bet your depression gets "cured" then too, I do think you should definately not have a child with this man, you have ages to find a good caring man who will treat you and the kids fantastically!(and time spent on your own will stand you in good stead for the rest of your life).

Having been married to a "farang", I obviously know a lot, and many of them first have a relationship and kids with a local (for papers or not), and eventually marry their childhood sweetheart (or a new one, and they are very much sought after in their home country!)and bring them over! While courting, they introduce them as their sister Shock
But they're allowed to have more wives, so it's natural for them.

If this man is cheating on you, (and all roads lead to rome, so to speak), tell him to hit the road Jack!

tomorrowsanotherday · 25/12/2010 17:37

Well I confronted him and he tried to wiggle his way out of it but I stood my ground and wouldn't let him.
I have told him he's got until new year to find somewhere to stay or I will be packing his bags for him.
He has begged me to forgive him but I just don't think I can Sad

OP posts:
Numberfour · 25/12/2010 18:30
Sad So sorry you are going through this. Do you have somewhere to go if he refuses to leave?
AnotherMumOnHere · 25/12/2010 18:30

Well done tomorrowsanotherday !! Ive been following your thread with interest. I have been in similar relationships but know for myself that they were going to go no further than that (I'm of the older persuasion.)

I'm sure the girls on here will give you loads of advice to help you.

tomorrowsanotherday · 25/12/2010 18:41

I went to a family gathering last night and been with family again today so haven't had time to dwell on anything.
My parents have room for me if it comes to it and he refuses to leave but he has already mentioned going to stay with a friend.

OP posts:
LittleMissHoHoHoFit · 25/12/2010 21:45

Let him go, insist on it.

YOU need the space to work out who you are and what you want from life.

If you let this go, it will be the start of a slippery slope.

If he is still swearing undying love for you and being honourable etc etc there could be some room for negotiation.

IMHO, there is so much better in a man from our culture, than the unknown, so I would say it's not worth the sacrifice long term.

But of course there are marriages that DO work. Must be said mostly where the man is allowed to take the reins and the woman at best takes a secondary position, but IMHO, you need a lot more experience and understanding of yourself, what you are and are not prepared to accept before you make life altering decisions like marrying into another culture.

End it with this chap. Take some time out and observe your friends, your family and everyone you can to see how their relationship dynamic works.

This was where my personal 'beginning of the end came from' when i looked around and saw that no-one had to endure what I did. It gave me strength to speak out and question. Once I started, once I started paying attention to the 'answers', I grew stronger and stronger, as I knew I was right.

Schoolgirl · 25/12/2010 22:49

Tomorrowsanotherday - I do hope you have had a peaceful Christmas day and that your family have been able to support you at such a difficult time. FWIW I think you're making the right decision - despite your history with this man, you have no children with him yet and IME such things as you've discovered recently are merely the tip of the iceberg in that, if you try to forgive and forget, you're simply allowing the level of betrayal to escalate - a text/emotional affair becomes an inappropriate friendship which becomes a full-on affair ... and so on.

BUT without wanting to go over old ground (I see apologies have been made) please do not for one minute think that this could have been avoided had you chosen a man from your own background. For each horror story about "those dirty foreigners" (and yes, that is how it sounds) there are at least a hundred horror stories for men from your own culture.

What I'm trying to say is that badly behaved men are just that - badly behaved men. Their culture, background and religion are irrelevant to how they behave. I say this as a woman who has friends who have been treated appallingly and as a matrimonial solicitor who has seen some terrible tales - 99% of the time it's your bog-standard middle class English man doing the dirty. That doesn't make English men bad just as men from other cultures aren't.

LittleMiss - I don't want to pick on you as I know that you and AF have apologised for blanket generalisations but this particular remark made my blood run cold "there is so much better in a man from our culture, than the unknown" - this was from your very last post, after your apology. The reason it makes me feel sick to my stomach is that the same argument is used to persuade people against mixed-race relationships for decades - to me it stinks to high heaven of Enoch Powell, the BNP, the NF and all the other racists I have been facing my whole life.

I realise this is not the spirit in which you intended to make that comment but I thought you should know the impact that it would have upon both the child of and the wife of an immigrant. I do think you've obviously had a terrible time and clearly cultural differences played a part. However your ex sounds like a rotten, nasty piece of work and I'm sure that would have been true whether he'd been from Iran or deepest darkest Surrey - some men are just bastards full stop.

I don't mean to offend anyone and apologies for taking the thread off-topic once again - I did feel very strongly that some posters simply do not realise the impact of what they're saying and the racist undertone, despite the lack of racist intention.

Tomorrow - I wish you all the happiness in the world and I know that you'll find the right guy whether he's from your culture or not. Hopefully this time next year, you'll be posting about your lovely Christmas with your new DP xx

suburbophobe · 26/12/2010 10:19

Schoolgirl, I hope you are not implying my post is a "racist rant" just because I married outside my culture!

I totally agree with you that the "bloke next door" (i e the Brit one) can be a nasty piece of work, just as the "farang" one can be the husband from heaven!

I did group therapy for women involved in domestic abuse and three quarters of them were with guys from their own culture.

As for those types who are anti mixed-race relationships, I don't even give them the time of day! Luckily I don't meet many, I am actually lucky to live in a city that is hugely tolerant (coffeeshops! Grin)and has 176 nationalities in a population of less than a million (in Europe) and my mixed-race son went to school with mostly mixed kids of all cultures himself.

LittleMissHoHoHoFit · 26/12/2010 14:00

Oh FFS, schoolgirl pick at some old bones why don't you. Angry

Of course there are vile men in our culture, as there are in all others. BUT... Treating a woman badly, i.e anything less than equal is universally known as not acceptable in our culture.

This is not the case in cultures such as the one I 'married' into. It is the norm, it is to be expected and in some cases is encouraged by the mothers and female relatives themselves.

Why do I hate my 'H' so much? because he knew better, before we left the UK, and he still reverted to the way his culture is, AND defends them.

Abusers who attend workshops would be those that understood what they were thinking, doing and saying to be wrong. People like my 'H' don't see it as wrong, they see it as a right no matter WHAT you say to them. Yep, I said right, that is what 'H' has actually said to me.

My BFF there though has a great H, he does a decent share of the child rearing, he does listen to her and he only studied in the UK, but he didn't live anymore than 5yrs here.

My 'H' lived here from the end of the 80's. He was fair to begin with. But that changed when I had his DS and we moved to his land. Ok so I ended up picking a wrongun, but he was not an oddity in his culture, for many, many, most even, this is the norm, or even worse.

As I said, inter-national relationships DO work, they CAN work, BUT it depends on the adaptability of the individual. For both persons to adapt, understand, respect and accept the other person's background, culture, belief, needs and wants. That is nothing to do with race incidentally, this is about the personality of the individual, their emotional health.

To make it work in my scenario I would have had to be a totally surrendered wife, and accept that I was a lesser person. I would have to understand that his needs were always above anyone elses and that I would be hit if it was deemed necessary. I lost count of the times I would see young men hit, slap or intimidate their fiancées on the corniche outside my flat. Nothing was ever done or said to these men, and the attacks were all in broad daylight. H cousins saw the bruises, but they would say, yeah but he does llove you... so don't worry about it.

When we meet someone from our own country, we get to know them, we know about them from where they grew up, the area, the street, the region. We learn about them from their accent, their vocabulary, their education, their family, their friends.

Many many subtle ways of weighing up the person. When we meet someone who has come from a different place, it is harder to 'get' them, to appreciate the subtleties of their background. In many instances we have only their words to go on. If a person is good, with good intentions then there is no problem. But with people with personality disorders, potential abuse/control issues either learned or ingrained etc, if they are spinning you a yarn to get you to fall for them, it's harder to spot the subtle nuances that would ring alarm bells if the bloke came from down the road. I find that you can also dismiss things in a partner from another culture as being cultural that you wouldn't with a neighbour for example.

I lived in Brazil in my 20s. To begin with, before I was fluent in portuguese, I knew that people weren't getting me, as my vocab couldn't convey exactly what I wanted to say. As my language skills grew, I was better able to express myself.

My 'H' speaks very good english, better than most non-british people I know, but naturally it's not perfect. He has told me all about him, and I had no reason to disbelieve him. However tbh, in recent months i have heard reports of what he has said to others about me, about life and it has utterly thrown doubt on everything he told me when I first met him 10 years ago.

It IS harder to gauge a person outside our culture, not impossible, but more complicated in many ways, for both sides. Hindsight is something a 42 year old has an abundance of. I had NONE at 24, or even 34.

Again, i don't think I am being racist, I think given the history of this thread it's unhelpful to start picking at old bones and accuse others of racism when actually the only mistake made is of typed generalisation.

This is an internet forum, not an exam paper.

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