He can't remember what happened last night.

[soangrysometimes]

H and I had a massive row when he rolled in pathetically drunk and incapable last night at 3am (having been uncontactable etc - I was frantic). He has form, but it has been almost a year since the last episode like this after I issued an ultimatum after he got mugged having drunk himself insensible and passed out in an unfamiliar area.

He'd promised to help with a lot of stuff which needed doing by today so I was worried and furious.

Row ended up with me forcing him out of the front door (we're in flats). He passed out on the landing and woke me up at 6am having managed to get in (he couldn't work the door when he first got home). Pawing me and saying I love you baby.

Kicked him off and into DD's (empty, she was sharing with DD2) bed. Dragged him up in time to have a shower before work as he stunk of alcohol and was still stumbling/slurring etc.

He was aggressive and whiny. Packed him off to work and sorted the kids (he usually takes them to school).

He just called from work sounding pretty normal, no reference to last night, reminding me that school closes early today, just normal chat (we usually talk throughout the day).

I can well believe he doesn't remember the row, and might have thought he passed out on the stairs under his own steam, but he can't have genuinely forgotton this morning (I made it very clear I thought he was being incredibly disrespectful and pathetic), and he'll have all the text messages I sent him to refer to.

Is he pretending to have forgotton? Should I go along with it? The temptation to brush it under the carpet this close to xmas is strong but would send the wrong message I think.

I just know that when he comes home if I make my displeasure clear he'll say "why are you being grumpy" and I'll say "because of the disgusting way you behaved last night", and he'll say "I wasn't that drunk, you are so unreasonable".

If I 'act normally' and bring it up in the evening once the DCs are asleep he'll say "I don't see this as an issue, you are being so unreasonable".

Not being able to remember the state he was in is his default get-out clause, it repulses me.

He might well have been drunk this morning. I hope he didn't drive to work?

Anyway I would hope he is suffering a tremendous hangover and would firmly let him know how unimpressed you are with his behaviour.

I am a bit perplexed with you locking him out though, coukd you not have packed him off to sofa/spare bed?

Does this happen often? Or just once a year or so? Do you have a good relationship otherwise?

No, he takes the train to work.

He wouldn't've gone on the sofa - and I didn't want him near me tbh, he was saying some disgusting things and I was worried I might lose it completely. It's a smallish flat and we have three DCs, he would've woken them up (two of them were woken by the row anyway). I wanted him to actually leave (his mother is down the road), but he didn't make it down the stairs.

It used to happen often. Then I told him it was destroying my respect for him and damaging our relationship and his drinking was the issue which was making me doubt our future and he was fine for almost a year - did everything we'd agreed to (staying contactable, letting me know if his plans changed), moderated his drinking so he didn't come home with piss all over him etc.

We usually have a good relationship - it's been hard this month as there have been lots of xmas parties and I get jumpy when he drinks.

Ok well I think for an adult to go and get steaming pissed once a year at xmas is not that big a deal. If he acts like a cock when drunk then I would arrange for him to crash at a mate's, or agree beforehand that he will sleep on the sofa, or tell him you will be locking the door at midnight. I would certainly not stay up til 3am to have a row with him. That is pointless.

If however it is part of a pattern of excessive drinking then I would be having serious words.

We had the serious words a year ago, and I was just beginning to think he'd changed.

Last night was just him and a mate in the pub, not an xmas do or anything.

I am exhausted with worrying about him, when we're out together I am worrying if he's going to puke on our host, shit himself, tell me to shut up in front of the in-laws - he's done all that in the past.

He's not 'an alcoholic' though (and he is an expert on them apparently as his dad drank himself to death), so the problem is mine not his.

Of course he does not consider himself an alcoholic...

That's because he is an alcoholic in denial (IMVHO anyway)

Sorry you are having to go through this, esp at this time of year

I'm not sure if he is 'an alcoholic'. He has a problem with alcohol, it's obvious to everyone - when he drinks to get drunk he gets so drunk he isn't a person anymore. Friends and colleagues have mentioned it to him too so he can't really say I am making it up.

But it's not an issue for him, so he thinks it shouldn't be for me.

I know that if I asked him to stop drinking he would refuse.

He has a problem with alcohol, obviously, if you are 'jumpy' whenever he drinks. Getting pissed enough to puke on your host or shit yourself, even once in your life, is not normal imo.

Much sympathy.

Ugh. Sounds like a right pain in the arse. Many people can go and get pissed and just come home and fall asleep on the sofa. Others just become areseholes.

When you are discusing this with him, don't mention the drinking as such, but focus on his behaviour and your feelings about it (When you do X, I feel.... and When you don't do Y, I feel .....). And just don't get into a fight with him when he is drunk. That never works. Wait until he's sober. Oh, and don't let him get out of doing stuff with a hangover, unless he's pre-arranged to duck out of responsibilities the next day. (or just go out on your own the next morning and leave him to sort the kids out).

Sounds harsh, but nowhere near as harsh as he's being.

Depends whatyour definition of an alcoholic is I suppose...

Refusal to stop drinking? (Even though it gets him into absolutely rock-bottom scenarios. I mean, shitting himself?!)

Denial - "I haven't got a pronlem with alcohol" - even with the examples you list

Alcohol impacting on relationships with family, work, friends

Not able to stop once started (ie drinking to oblivion)

I would consider he had more than just a problem tbh

He reminds me of a teenager - certainly I saw that kind of behaviour when I was a teenager and we would drink cider until we were sick or whatever. But that was 20+ years ago for H. He needs to grow the fuck up or stop drinking altogether.

I know it, I do know it.

But I also know he's either so far in denial or really has parcelled it off (he doesn't remember it so it didn't happen, even if others tell him it did), that he's not going to see it that way.

I thought we'd had our breakthrough, which makes seeing the 'old' H again last night just so gutting. Like I thought he'd actually changed, and really he was just... holding back.

I have this big marble rolling-pin for pastry and I had this flash-vision of picking it up and whacking him with it last night. Scared me witless tbh.

Thing is you can't stop him drinking though god knows it sounds like you've tried. He has to want to stop, and that means admitting it's a problem.

Am I right in thinking you had this row last year, and it's the first time he's done it since then? If so, I would give him a bollocking and let it go. Once a year is once too often, but in the greater scheme of things it's not too bad.

If he gets this pissed again, video him. Works wonders.

You need to tell him before he comes home that you are upset with him.
But you and he will be civil in front of the children and then talk later.

I don't know if it'll be once a year. If it was I could live with it. It used to be every time he went out, and then (about a year ago, after he got mugged), I laid down the law and he's been great since then. But it hasn't been long enough to know if this was a blip or him reverting to type.

I think the process of finding out could make me go totally loopy.

If it was a christmas thing it'd be better in some ways - god knows work xmas dos can leave strings of casualties. But it wasn't and I thought the 'danger zone' was behind us iyswim.

I videoed him last year and he watched the video - it was AWFUL - and said "I wasn't that bad". When he came home at 3am literally unable to stand properly he was insisting he was 'not that drunk' even though he couldn't work out how to open our front door.

When he 'gets like this' it's like I have a flashback to all the truly awful things he has done in similar states - the puking thing (lost friends over that), shitting himself while sitting next to me on a bus, behaving awfully at the wedding of a dear friend, being sick at umpteen other parties, insulting people... it's like one of those special effects in films.

It's clearly a problem I have too, that I can't just roll my eyes and get on with things, that I take it personally. But he's not a genial funny drunk, he's a pathetic drooling insulting drunk, and I hate it.

He doesn't have friends who do it, either - there's no culture of acting like this or drinking to that extent, he's not a trader or a rugger bugger. He's not drinking to get away from personal trauma, he's not remorseful the next day, he doesn't care that I am up worrying about him when he goes AWOL.

It's hard to seperate H when he's drunk and H the rest of the time. It's the same person.

The thing is with an alcoholic (and yes, your H is one) is that you can't make him stop. Until he decides for himself that he is going to stop (and he almost certainly will need professional help of some sort), he isn't going to stop, and trying to police his drinking is going to drive you crazy. You have two options and two only: you live with the drinking (which means detaching yourself to a certain extent, not covering up or making excuses for him and not drinking with him), or you leave him/throw him out.

I can't imagine he'll ever want to stop, because he 100% doesn't think he has a problem and neither does society. And it being a problem for me isn't enough for him to want to change (he'd just list all the things about me which bother him).

Neither option gives me any hope really. In the past it has literally been me who suffered from his behaviour but now we have seperate social circles for the most part (don't really socialise together anyway as no babysitting for DCs other than one or other of us). But how do I learn to detatch? When he's this shambling idiot who can't even control his bodily functions?

I could try asking him to sleep elsewhere when he goes out. But how do I stop worrying that something's happened to him? When he got mugged it was awful, he was hospitalised. He sometimes joins in if people around him are taking drugs (they usually do one or the other but he'll get leglessly drunk then snort a line or two).

If I stop worrying doesn't that mean that I don't love/respect him anymore? Is there any point being married if I don't love/respect him?

It's clear that this upsets you really badly; I do understand why.

Until & unless he gets back on his old tracks, I think it would be wiser for you to assume he has learned his lesson - and overlook the occasional backslide. This doesn't mean pretending it didn't happen or denyig your own feelings - more trusting him to stick to the rules in general, but showing your pain and worry if he slips, as he just has done.

I hope you'll find it in you to share your feelings with him and get the message across without 'awfulising'. One backslip does NOT make for immediate rack & ruin, any more than one cake ruins a diet or one cigarette means you've failed to stop smoking.

When you're learning a new behaviour pattern, slips happen - you just pick yourself up, learn from it, and carry on changing. I feel this applies to both of you, tbh: he needs to learn that he can't (yet) trust himself to always stop at the drink he shouldn't have; you need to learn he no longer does this all the time, and he won't always get mugged.

As to your questions about what to do if it happens again - chuck him out, as you did (in fact, if you can chuck him outside, do so - with a sleeping bag). Don't sort him out in the morning, let him deal with the mess he's made of things.

I hope it doesn't happen again, though, not like this.
Good luck.

He came home a few minutes ago (early). I just got on with things while the DCs did their usual ecstatic greeting. He came up to be while I was unloading the dishwasher and said "I'm sorry I was horrible last night".

I said I appreciated him saying that (I did, he used to be all deny deny deny), but it had been really upsetting. He said he'd thought he'd "done quite well at being in control". I said that he says that every time and maybe he should reassess what his limit of staying in control is. he said he guessed so.

I am cautiously hopeful. That's not what he used to do (the apology, the discussion). GraceAwayInAManger I hope you are right.

Tbh I wouldn't put up with that much. BUT I don't drink myself really (mostly because I don't like the taste) and DH, before meeting me, had major depression and abused alcohol (for him it was a self harm thing, making himself sick etc)

He's thankfully able to drink in moderation although hardly ever drinks at all. There were a couple of times where DH was drunk after work parties but the last time was the night before my birthday a few years ago. DH was so ashamed that he'd spoilt my birthday that he's not drunk more than one since then, freely admitting that he can't tolerate alcohol like he used to.

It does sound like your DH has a problem, not every alcoholic has the same symptoms/behaviours.