Tracking Devices? Anyone know about them?

[AlienZombieMum]

Does anyone know anything about using a tracking device / gps to catch a cheating spouse?

For logistical reasons I cannot follow him (don't drive, kids in bed, no babysitters), I have had my suspicions for months and check his phone regularly when he sleeps (never lets it out his sight when awake) , but cannot find anything (all deleted). Asked to borrow it once and he gave me it but looked shifty, took it for 24 hrs and let him think he'd "lost" it - nada! Although he did "have" to go out urgently 2 mins after he thought he had lost it - prob to a payphone to tell her not to call.

He doesn't have a computer at all and doesn't have access to mine.

He is self-employed as a driver so chooses his own hours and has no workplace . Have checked his car.

However, I have good reason to believe he is not actually at work when he says he is although I cannot prove it. I have a good inkling of where he may be, so if I could put a mobile phone with a tracker in his car or something like that I could confront him with evidence he cannot deny.

Does anyone know a (reputable) way of getting and setting up one of these devices? Would a private investigator supply you with one? The vehicle is actually in my name although he is on insurance so I don't think it would be illegal?

My friend put a tracker on her DHs phone, it cost about £20 you download it into the phone, must be one that has Internet.

You can then log onto their website and read all of the text messages and see the phone calls.

You can pay by pay pal.

I don't know what it is called but could find out if you want to know.

Alien - I can see how you would find the evidence a bit empowering at first. confirming your instincts and giving you something you think you can use as a weapon or tool in the breakup. But I would second all those that have told you to just get on with the divorce. You don't need external justification, and it's unlikely he'll accept anything you consider to be evidence. He'll excuse it in some other way. You already know he's not being a husband and father, you have proof of this, but he isn't accepting it. Why do you think proof of other behaviours will be different?

If you really can't move forward otherwise, do be careful. What will he do if you confront him with "proof"? Is it possible he will get violent because you've been "snooping" (and smashed his bubble)? Will he turn it on you so that you feel even less sure of yourself? Will he just deny it? What do you do then?

Also note - breaking into someone's voice mail or setting up a tracker on their phone without their permission is illegal and might become something he can use against you in any divorce. I don't know about a GPS locator in the car. I would think from a practical perspective though, you could get away with setting up tracking on your own phone and just happen to accidentally leave it in the car (in silent mode).

I agree, I think his behaviour is already unreasonable and you don't need any further proof that he is a poor husband and father.

Also I think it is unlikley he will confess all once you present him with any evidence. I would be very, very careful as he is more likely to turn it against you. 'She was always checking up on me etc., I mean she even put a tracking device on my phone.' He could make you sound like a loon and use it against you. The chances are, this is what he will do.

My ex used all my attempts to stand up to him against me. I've paid a heaviy price and my family all believe him and have nothing more to do with me. My daughter (5) told me just this morning that he told her I wasn't very nice to him.

Abusive people have no scruples, they will use it against you. My ex sees nothing wrong with using my daughter to score points.

I think you would benefit much more from speaking to Women's Aid (0808 2000 247). Your husband is really messing with your head. BTW what I meant last night about getting benefits is that if you moved out with the kids, you would get support. The fact that you part own a house that your ex lives in would not necessarily work against you, especially when there is domestic abuse. And that's what this is I'm afraid, please call WA.

AlienZombieMum - there's a little yellow envelope for mail at the top of your screen - it goes red if you've got mail.

AlienZombieMum - there's a little yellow envelope for mail at the top of your screen - it goes red if you've got mail.

SuchProspects, that's a far better idea to leave a phone/tracking device hidden in his car!! It's perfect. That way, it's a more ethical and legal way of finding out some useful info. Can't you just get a mate he doesn't know to follow him? It doesn't prove all that much, TBH, but if you really must do this.. and be ready to hear/see things that might upset you.

If you decide to go down this 'find the proof' road, you really will need a fair bit of proof, rather than just constant phonecalls to a number, his car on a certain road for a while, etc. There are lots of things that he really could wriggle out of. And no matter what happens from now on, it won't be possible to prove how long it's been going on (unless, of course, the other person squeals, which is possible. Stranger things have happened - depends if they want him.)

Agree totally with QueenofWhatever, too. I'd be extremely careful with your timing if you plan to confront him over all this. You really don't know how he would handle it if this whole thing came publicly to light.

And, also, though it may give you extreme satisfaction and relief in the short term, be ready for a big crash afterwards. It would reduce him considerably in so many ways. At the moment, he holds so much power - if you change that power balance v dramatically, who knows how it might make you both feel? What would the long-term effects be? On you, him and the DCs?

Just some stuff to think about. Keep yourself safe, whatever you choose... it's obvious things can't carry on as they are. If I were you, I wouldn't go down the PI route, it could be an awful lot of money that you could spend on yourself or DCs afterwards.

My husband runs a company that integrates tracking devices into cars, vans, mobile phones - even pets! You can then track movement in real time via the internet.

So yes, it can be done.

However, you can't slip them in secretly! They have to be done by the owner of the item to be tracked.

And, more importantly, like others have said, if you are at this point - just get out of the relationship! It's not worth it.

No I didn't find anything out by following him. He had a one night stand early in our relationship and told me about it. I had met the girl and knew where she lived. He drove a night shift so I'd drive about until I found him and then follow him, or else drive repeatedly down this girl's street thinking I might catch him parked outside. I never did. It was a waste of time and energy and you can almost guarantee that if he was still shagging her he'd have been there when I wasn't watching.

The other thing is that the intense focus on the issue of is-he-isn't-he (being unfaithful) detracts from the more stark and banal facts: ie that the relationship is total shit. End it on these grounds and save yourself the pain of dealing with infidelity. It's what I should have done - I didn't - now I'm co-parenting with a man (long my ex) who holds me in contempt, as I do him, and I'm tied to him forever

Thank you all so much for the messages

I have not had internet access for a couple of days and youngest was in hospital with a virus, but ok now, thankfully.

Witchinthewindows I don't know if there is a way you can see all deleted texts, I have heard of it but don;t know how to go about it.

Whenwillifeelnormal
I think I have recently (past few months) realised that he will never change , HE will always come first and despite his "I'll try" s to shut me up he will continue to blithely do as he pleases with no regard to family at all, and there will always be an excuse to him . That and the fact he is never around anyway the past few months so there is nothing good to miss, however small, iyswim?
Do you think the stopping initiating sex with me is significant? Until a couple of months ago he would always ask me for sex even if we were arguing a lot at the time, but now he never does.

No he's on PAYG, no contract, phone not even registered. I've checked both phone and SIM memories on phone yes.
He obviously thinks he is being really clever just by deleting texts but he forgot to delete the message counter so I can see that say 8 texts have added on that day, but he didn't text me, and he definately wouldn't be texting his parents back and forward that many times!

No, no suspected OW, but he is a taxi driver so it would be easy to meet someone I suppose. I meant that sometimes I have an inkling he is sitting at his friends houses or in pub whilst I am struggling with the kids bathing/dinner/bedtime - he will say he is "working" so there's nothing he can do, but a good few times in the past I have later bumped into one of his friends and they have said "It was good to see B for dinner the other night" or something ! or I have seen the messages on his phone arranging to go over to friends whilst I'm clearly run ragged after working all day and 3 kids to feed, bath and bed! Sorry should have been clearer about that, but the texts to friends are not deleted (he thinks I haven't looked) and obviously he isn't at friends every single night?

Have looked through his wardrobe and the car for another phone but nada. He still has a room at his parents with his stuff still there from before he moved out although his mum has filled it with kids stuff too. He does have a key to his parents though and goes up every day to pick up DS. I've had a quick look in that room but hard when his mum is around.

If he does keep fuel receipts I don't know where, and he doesn't earn enough for VAT.

It is very exhausting . I did suggest to him last night that it would perhaps be better if we just co-parented DS but not be together as I just can't take any more. He said "Where would you be without me then eh?" to which I replied "The exact same since you do clearly play no part anyway of your own choice". He didn't like that and text me that he would have DS living with him and later text "If you want to end this you have my consent but I will not be moving out"

giant sigh <

sorry for giant post.

I'm going to do the PI trick which atswimtwolengths suggested and keep checking the phone. But it looks like we will be breaking up in the new year anyway so you are right it does seem a moot point but I would desperately like to find out about the details of any affair so he can't smugly get away with it and paint himself in a great light to everyone.

MummieHunnie Sorry you had to go through that. No I don't think I'm unhinged and paranoid for no reason. I am realistic that no-one works 16 hour day 7 days a week and deletes random texts on their phone for no reason, whilst disengaging completely from family life! Hope you are over it now though x

Thanks Mumonline I will try that. The only time I can get hold of his phone is at night whilst he sleeps. We have exactly the same model of phone and same screensaver so I take his and put mine in it's place so if he wakes up he will check time etc thinking mine is his.

I suppose I could take it into bathroom and set a voicemail pin and get voicemail number then. Although I don't think he has voicemail set up at all. Maybe I could set it up for him and he wouldn't realise it wasn't there before?

Lynli Thanks but his phone is same as mine and has no internet

SuchProspects You are right, him not engaging at all in family is enough of a reason to divorce and I made an appointment with a counsellor I used a while back to hopefully come to a clear conclusion that this is the decision I want to make.
But he won't agree to move out, won't agree to divorce, will probably try to get custody of DS although he sees him 5 mins a day! If i can prove infidelity and burst his bubble he may just go quietly as he likes the image of 'respectable man in the community' and to his parents (who are of the belief that infidelity, physical violence or leaving your marriage is unforgivable but nothing else should split a couple up!).

I highly doubt he would get violent (enough to do any serious damage) as then he would look bad to everyone outside. He knows I would report it because he is becoming aware that I won't do anything to keep him anymore. He is verbally threatening at times intimidating but has never lifted a finger to me lest he get in trouble!

QueenofWhatever - that is is a very good point thank you. I'm not thinking clearly right now -

'She was always checking up on me etc., I mean she even put a tracking device on my phone.' He could make you sound like a loon and use it against you. The chances are, this is what he will do.

That is exactly what he would say! Why are they all so similar?

If I get proof I may just keep it to myself but be able to completely ignore all his denials and refusal to move out or divorce when I tell him I KNOW he has been cheating. So he won't be able to wiggle round it and make excuses and leave me thinking "what if?"

I will maybe phone WA , however if I'm about to divorce him anyway, not at risk of going back then would they be able to help anything?

xx

Thanks atswimtwolengths I worked out how to do it finally this morning. That is a genius idea - i will definately do that

MissMehalia It would need to be a saintly friend to follow him in his taxi for perhaps hours and hours of really working to finally catch him parked somewhere for a long time! and repeat for days and perhaps weeks. Don't really think I know anyone that generous!

DCs are pretty young (5 and 2) but I am wary of saying anything in front of them so I never do. I wouldn't confront him if they were even in the house as I think it would mess the eldest's head up to hear adult things like cheating and affairs. We do bicker in front of them (general snapping at each other) but not about big issues. Obviously they are not being taught about how a family should be though as currently he is literally NEVER in and the eldest has definately noticed he is never home when she is. but is only home "at big adult bed time and goes away before I get up"

Thanks for the info Hec I looked at a couple of the websites but sussed that it would be too expensive for this purpose (but would be good for businesses tracking their fleet or something) and also that they would probably require the driver to be present and the fact it is a taxi may cause a lot of issues with privacy of the public in his taxi?

x

Mummery I know what you mean. I would do the driving about following him thing if I could at this point, although it makes me feel shit about myself as he does not expand the same energy on me and I have better things to be spending energy on. But still the burning need to know . argh.
I know I will be tied to him forever. I know what it is like with DD's dad who was very immature when we had her and disappeared scared but very occasionally pops up and demands to see "his daughter" or starts telling me how to parent her when he hasn't seen her in a year or even two. I always tell him if I change phone number or address since I feel duty to as he is DD's biological father, but it's weird having to tell him that.

WA can help by advising you how to deal with his emotionally abusive behaviour towards you and also by advising on ways forward to remove him from your home.

He has an interest registered in it but you own the majority share.
This means that one of you needs to buy the other out, you re entitled to a much greater lump um than he is.
Your best way forward would be to have the house valued, make him an offer based on his interest and make this conditional on him moving out. You need a solicitor who specialises in property matters, they will be far more use to you at the moment than a tracking device.

I don't think trying to get proof will do your mental health any good, you will be unlikely to ever get the answers you want.
You are far better to start beng assertive and divorce him on the grounds of his unreasonable behaviour.
You can get counselling to sort through your feelings and I think that will be far healthier than keeping up this merrygoround you are currently on.

"H, i am beginning divorce proceedings, the children will be staying with me as i am their primary carer, i am also the majority owner of this house. You need to make arrangements to live elsewhere. Please let me know where you shall be on Boxing day so that i can arrange for you to spend some time with your children."

Every time he argures with you you simply repeat the above calmly, it is your mantra.

Honestly, this can be much simpler for you, you don't need proof to end your marriage and have a happy future.

Thanks Miniwedge I have no idea about house-stuff. I put a lot of the money for the house down first (I inherited money at the time) so the mortgage would be small and paid off quicker. His parents then later on put a fair bit of money into the house by paying off the mortgage when they came into a bit of money. So when first bought the house was in my name. But then his parents contributed to clear the mortgage and he is registered as living here obviously. No idea about legalities surronding house - looks like I will need a solicitor x

I was thinking of

"H you have not committed to your family and have completely removed yourself from all aspects of family life for months. We have had numerous discussions about this where you have promised to rectify this but nothing has changed. Obviously things cannot go on like this for the sake of the children and myself. Therefore I am ending our marriage by starting divorce proceedings. The children will be staying with me as I am their primary carer. DS can stay with you 50/50 joint custody if you wish us to get this sorted legally, but no more than this. You need to make arrangements to live elsewhere"

Is this ok?

The reason I say 50/50 access for DS is that mother-in-law looks after DS whilst i work and also some Saturday overnights so as it is she has him a lot of the time and H will most likely (if he would leave) go to stay with her. I have a bad feeling that he will not leave, paint me in an awful light and make things extremely difficult though

'DS can stay with you 50/50 joint custody if you wish us to get this sorted legally, but no more than this.'

Yes, but remove 'but no more than this.' He does not want custody of your son, it's a bluff. But by putting in writing that you are happy with 50/50 shows you are being reasonable. Looking after little 'uns is hard work, so he won't want the reality of it.

Also I would strongly say you want to get it sorted legally, otherwise he will just see more opportunities to mess you around with contact and custody. Calm and measured, do it all in writing. When he suggests something, always say 'let me think about it' and then leave at least 24 hours before you make a decision. He won't like it and will most probably badger you, but just keep saying it.

Women's Aid can also put you in contact with the Freedom Programme which I think you could really benefit from. Also I would get the Lundy Bancroft book which is £7. You will start seeing exactly how they really are all the same.

By the way, I'm afraid you should brace yourself for hiom smearing your name. The police, WA, GP etc. all said my ex was very much at the extreme end of the spectrum in terms of being abusive and controlling (no, he didn't hit me but there are lots of other forms of abuse), yet people we knew have all sided with him and I'm the one with MH issues (allegedly). People believe what they want and, sadly, they find it hard to believe that people can be this subtly manipulative. It's still worth it though.

Thanks Queenofwhatever Yeah I do want to be reasonable since his mum does look after DS when I'm at work a lot. And I heard somewhere that if 2 parents cannot agree who the child will live with then 50/50 is usually the starting point. Although his threats scare me I'm pretty sure he's not being serious about full residency. What is he going to do, give up his job and live on benefits which he probably won't get much if he is living with his mum? I think he is under the impression his mum will be forced into looking after DS all the time (forced by H I mean) and he can stop by once a day for his dinner and play the doting father then. He seems to have this fear of a loss of control over the DCs but in reality he is very short-tempered with them (especially his own funnily enough) and he has very limited capacity for "children stuff". Think once he realises his mum won't just step in and play mum (H and his mum are always arguing too - afaik usually his fault) then he will try to stay in the house.

Yeah I'm going to sort it legally when I have more money (in case I don't get legal aid). Can he refuse to sort child custody stuff legally? If he refuses to answer any solicitor letters etc I obviously will just have to deal with him my own way cause I wouldn't want to stop DS seeing his father. Been there done that with DD's father. he messed me and my family about no end with "informal" custody arrangements but refused to answer any legal letters he got (me trying to put into place a legal custody plan) but still pops up occasionally. grr.

I am worried about him smearing me . In the past he has used almost everything he could against me when he feels I have "attacked" him (ie - been angry at him for doing something unreasonable)

"You are a bad mother - you don't even look at DD" - nonsense! I'm not all that touchy-feely but def. not a bad mother!

"You come from a messed up family - you don't know what unconditional love is"

Digs about my family's religion.

Digs about the mess of my old house when we first met - "If I were to leave this house would collapse / be as messy as your old one" - erm no...since he does no housework and house is fine now (was cluttered before, which i resolved to eradicate once and for all when i moved)

"You will have me replaced in a minute with another guy, then another guy, then another guy..." lot of nonsense!

"You are mental / a bully / a facist / a proven liar"

I could go on and on (already have! )

I know none of these are true but it will still hurt when he will inevitably throw them at me if I tell him to move out. He will say one or two of the above, perhaps storm out for a couple of days to "punish" me then come back expecting me to be happy to have him back . I would bet my last dollar that is what he will do. Really don't know if I have the energy for it . Recently I have stood up to him and then some (in fact I have become quite an expert in it) but it takes loads of energy to think of responses and doesn't make me a happy person at all.

I just know he will tell everyone I have mental health issues. His friends already think I do because I don't "let" him go on boys holidays for 3 days when he hasn't spent more than an hour at a time with his kids in months (he makes out he spends loads of family time I bet). And because I have argued with him in front of them.
He will probably try to turn his mum against me but as she looks after DS a lot she knows a lot of the facts and although he is her son, she's not stupid or blind (I hope).

Happily I don't really have anyone else to worry about. He doesn't talk to my family much, and random aquaintance's views don;t really bother me.

Alien, I think it's clear that the first thing you can do to help yourself hugely is to stop listening to him. I know this is very hard, you've been in a relationship with him for ever such a long time. But he is unkind...

The idea of him having any kind of custody of DS is laughable, as he has almost no contact with him, from the sounds of it. I'd be very, very careful about doing any deals about custody in writing at this point. He may try to hassle you into some kind of discussion on the hop (typical of someone controlling, to pressurize you into an on-the-spot decision) but as someone on here said, just respond with 'I'll need to think about that for a few days.' So much of what he's saying atm is just hot air, I think you've got more power than you may realise.

I really think WA will give you the best specific advice possible for your situation. Now is a bad time to be doing anything other than getting lots and lots of information from organisations set up to help people in your exact situation - at least that way you'll know you can trust them. This will give you the confidence to truly begin the detachment process.

Good luck!! I'm quite sure you'll be fine. x

Thanks MissMehalia I was hoping someone would tell me I'll be fine I keep hearing all these Christmas songs at work and it's making me very sad >cries quietly< but I do realise that last Christmas and New Year we argued bitterly pretty much the whole time MIL took the DC's on Christmas night and New Year to give us time to ourselves. This Christmas we are so detached we are like strangers who hate each other, but it still hurts . There were small cracks the Christmas before last as well )-:

Today I text him 'Please can you drop in £5 to DD's school for her pantomime as I gave you my change for the taxi change box this morning?'

I was working far away from DD's school , he drives around all the time near it, so not unreasonable.

He replied -

"yeah right but no more texts. not wasting any more credit" (wonder who he is wasting it on?

I'm quite a practical person but I do have feelings too...

Recently I have wondered if I will ever find a decent normal person to have a relationship with. Not thinking of cheating at all , it's not my style, but a sign I'm detaching from the relationship. Hopefully there are good ones out there, but there do seem a lot of really abusive / immature / selfish men on MN all the time. eeek.

And if I will be ok on my own. DD nearly 6 now and quite good company and quite capable of getting help via phone should I take a bad asthma attack. So that is a comfort, and I do have a few good friends but I'm not the most proactive at organising meet-ups.

Thanks for the reassurance x

I won't enter into any written agreements with him hastily. I will try the idea suggested on here - the 24-hr think before replying.

I think he will accuse me of taking his son away from him though when I say DS is staying with me. Which will be hard.

Well, one thing the thinking period before decisions will do is avoid confrontation with him. You can rightly say you cannot simply make snap decisions about the lives of your nearest and dearest. It's irresponsible!

With regards to what the future may hold for you, please, please take heart. This difficult time really can change, and you can create a new life for you and your DCs where you still have all the responsibilities (as you do now!) but you will have huge freedoms and autonomy to balance that. I lived on my own with first DD from before birth til 6, and quite honestly it was a really great life. Won't lie, yes there were some lonely moments, but I think it's lonelier in a very bad relationship.

And, yes, there are some really really great men out there. Honestly. The reason you can get a skewed view on them if MN is your only point of reference is that many people only post on here about them when they're going through a bad patch. I've seen some great posts on here about them too.

The real mental, practical and emotional freedom to meet someone new may take a while to arrive, and you may simply love the single life for quite some time too. But, really, much later - if it's what you want it's quite possible!

Big hug. This will pass. x

Thanks x It just seems like such a mammoth task and I sort of want to get it over with as I know he is not happy either. He has been staying at his mum's for 2 nights so he can "get a break from the arguments" - whilst I am left with 2 kids and work too - one not well.
He is actually at his mums as she told me and she wouldn't lie - not that it;s much consolation. Maybe he is gearing up for staying there again but is too cowardly to say.

Do men usually repeat old break up patterns? I know all 3 of his previous relationships it was the girlfriend who broke things off eventually after him not being 'present' for a while (#1 he avoided, #2 he wouldn't move in with and #3 he didn't pay back a loan she had taken out for him then she left) Seems like I will have to do the breaking up part, now he has "given his consent" in his words.

grr x

Any happy update for us
AZM?