Tracking Devices? Anyone know about them?

[AlienZombieMum]

Does anyone know anything about using a tracking device / gps to catch a cheating spouse?

For logistical reasons I cannot follow him (don't drive, kids in bed, no babysitters), I have had my suspicions for months and check his phone regularly when he sleeps (never lets it out his sight when awake) , but cannot find anything (all deleted). Asked to borrow it once and he gave me it but looked shifty, took it for 24 hrs and let him think he'd "lost" it - nada! Although he did "have" to go out urgently 2 mins after he thought he had lost it - prob to a payphone to tell her not to call.

He doesn't have a computer at all and doesn't have access to mine.

He is self-employed as a driver so chooses his own hours and has no workplace . Have checked his car.

However, I have good reason to believe he is not actually at work when he says he is although I cannot prove it. I have a good inkling of where he may be, so if I could put a mobile phone with a tracker in his car or something like that I could confront him with evidence he cannot deny.

Does anyone know a (reputable) way of getting and setting up one of these devices? Would a private investigator supply you with one? The vehicle is actually in my name although he is on insurance so I don't think it would be illegal?

I know what you mean Hairy that his refusal to engage in family life at all (except from when others would think it strange him not being there - birthdays etc) should be the dealbreaker, but he will twist it and twist it and make the excuses about
"It's the hours I have to work"
"You are unsupportive"
"We agreed on this (him going back to the taxi job)"

I would just like to have that evidence that he is really somewhere else, with someone else.

A couple of months ago we had a huge fight as he called me to say he was staying at his mums last minute (as he was working nightshift and kids would wake him). Idiot. His mum told me she never heard him come in at all and was pretty sure he didn't stay (he has a key to his parents). He then told her he had slept in his car (????!!!!) and me - whom he knew wouldn't believe the BS - that he had in fact stayed at his mum's just he got in at 4am when she was asleep and left at 7am to go back to work after 3 hours sleep. AS IF.

But he is so fucking smug as he knows that because his parents do most of the childcare whilst I'm at work I can't ask them to babysit also and my family live far away so he knows he can do what he likes after I'm in with kids at 6pm with no car so I won't have evidence

Do you see why I would like proof?

My youngest is his, my eldest isn't but he has known her since she was a baby and her biological dad disappeared.

To be honest, he doesn't really differentiate - he spends little to no time with EITHER of them.
Seriously, he drives them back from their childcare for me getting in from work (approx 5 mins per day) and sees them on special occasions like birthdays, Christmas, will occasionally watch them if I want to go out (but moans if it is a "busy" taxi night) or childcare fails, but never of his own accord.

He says it's his work, but that is not right.

The more I write, the more I am seeing this as him NOT WANTING to have a family, just the pretence of one.

I'm still going to look at the link and possibly get a tracker if it is possible just so he can't lie to me anymore whilst still in the house, but I think it is over.

If you desperately want proof, I'd go all out and hire a PI, to be honest. I wouldn't bother with the tracker because whatever info you come up with, he'd lie his way out of it. At least with a PI you have concrete evidence.

But I think that would be a waste of time and especially money. I can see why you want proof, but think you should just move ahead with ending things now. Spend your money on the divorce: from the sounds of it, you'll be needing one anyway so why faff about?

AZM

I totally understand why you FEEL you need proof. I am sorry for the negative comments from women who have obviously not been in an abusive relationship. If the person you love (or loved) keeps telling you that you are wrong, intolerant, suspicious - then you lose faith in yourself and your own judgement. It is very common. I know I've been there - but it is not true, you KNOW what you KNOW.

If your instincts are telling you he is having an affair, then he probably is. But what does it matter - he is never there, he is cruel, he doesn't see the children, he doesn't have sex with you - quite frankly, he's not the man you thought he was, or ever wanted for a husband. You can divorce him for unreasonable behaviour - or you can go for a 2-year separation.

There certainly are tracker devices - and by all means google one, or talk to a PD, but I think a good divorce lawyer would be a better step.

Good luck, hun. Remember, it's not you, it's HIM.

belle...where are the negative comments ?

there was only one, and the poster acknowledged she misread the siuation (we have all done it, and OP seems ok with it now)

Yeah I do see how the OP could have sounded a bit stalker-ish, but seriously I am driving myself crazy with this situation.

Wouldn't a PI be expensive if they had to follow him around for perhaps hours / days?

yes, very expensive

do you have hundreds of pounds to spare ?

like someone else said, money would be better spent on a solicitor

I have a good lawyer, don't think he specialises in divorce, but is very good. Hope that will do . I don't really think it will be that complicated - the only thing which will be really complicated will be trying to get him to move out. No doubt since he is a cash-business he will only declare a little and get away with paying hardly any Child Support. I can support myself financially unless I lost my job somehow, but then I have good family who would help until things got sorted. So in a way I suppose it's relatively un-complicated. We don't have joint debt and I will not try to stop him seeing the children, although I doubt he will want to much. Although he will want to come in and out and "take control of issues" ie - school , despite never being around which he has done before. Car is in my name from years ago before a health issue forced me to give up driving and it's not worth a great deal so he can keep that. I don;t have sets of crown jewels sitting around the house, so nothing much of value to squabble over.

it sounds like you have thought about this a lot

the fact you think he won't bother much with the children were you to split is very sad

but only a reflection of how under-invested in you and the dc he is already

I guess I have thought about it a lot , without actually realising, iyswim.

Maybe I knew it would end like this. Not always, we were very in love once and he would've done anything for me, but not for years Think he fell out of love , or realised he just wanted the single life but is too much of a coward to say it. He has treated us with such little care, that I think I have mostly fallen out of love.

and have bronchitis and heartburn. Need to face this soon

Maybe I should hire a (responsible) babysitter for a couple of nights and get my friend from work who is young free and single (female) to drive me around to get some evidence in case he throws it back at me? Would be cheaper I guess.
Some of the childcare workers in DD's afterschool care also babysit I think if you ask them privately.

You'd be better off spending the money on a good solicitor. Tracking/PIs are only delaying the inevitable.

Unless part of you wants to 'shock' him into realising that his actions are going to cost him his wife and family? Do you believe that challenging him with proof about infidelity will make him come back to you, both emotionally and in practical terms? Do you want him to come back to you?

Btw I had an ex who was unfaithful and a taxi driver and I did the following him in a car thing, it's exhausting and you'll feel pretty bloody shit about the whole venture I can tell you. Plus in terms of logistics it's hard to follow a cabbie who is always stopping to pick up/drop off/do U-turns. And to keep a distance so you don't get spotted.

for you.

Thanks Mummery. I realise it would be difficult to follow him without him realising, and I don't think I can afford a professional.

I don't think it's just infidelity, although I think with the call / text history and the stopping sexual overtures then that is 99% the case. I also think he just doesn't want a family - he thought he did but now doesn't want the reality - finds it hard work / children boring. I can't really fix that. I just WISH HE WOULD ADMIT TO IT THOUGH. I text him with a sort of 'amnesty' - that if he would just admit what is clearly staring me in the face (doesn't want to spend time with us his family, isn't really at work all those hours) then I would leave him alone to his single life and separate as amicably as we can - I promised not to speak badly of him to family and friends etc. He (predicably) did not reply. He is dropping kids off from his mums soon but cannot start talking about it in front of kids and he will know this. He won't come in until late when I need to be in bed for work and then he will refuse to answer because he is "too tired" or I am being "ridiculous" - he could always call me on his break but he won't do that and if I call him he will either not answer (if not working) or say "I'm driving, what is it? stop annoying me" (if actually working). See how he effectively avoids all communication?

I do still love him somewhere deep down but I'm pretty sure he cannot love me from how he acts. Unless he was to miraculously change into a decent partner and father, I know it's doomed , which does make me very sad as he is VERY unlikely to do anything other than pay lip service and pretend he will start spending time with us, so then I agree to stay together but then continue using the "work" card unless I confronted him with evidence - which is why I posted OP.

xx

Did you find out what your ex was up to by following him? xx

Why is him 'admitting' it such an essential thing for you? You sound as if rationally you already see your relationship as over, even though it hurts you deeply.

Is it because you think he won't move out? If that's the case and you are confident you would keep the kids, then I think a solicitor would help you see otherwise. They give you 30 minutes free, try and get to see one before Christmas as come January they have a rush of people wanting to separate (sad, but true).

BTW I had an abusive ex who was world class at lying, so I know how crazy making it is. You really start to lose your grip on reality. I agree that you are being gaslighted and you probably won't realise the extent until he is out of your life (this can be a good thing). Also I think his Mum is colluding with him and making things harder (cooking for him? FFS). It's a shame you have to rely on her for childcare.

We do still have a welfare state and it is to protect the vulnerable and those in need. Although you sound like a strong woman, I think you currently fall into that category. You can move out with the kids - you would be elgible for benefits even if you are working - working tax credit, child tax credits and housing benefit etc. I just want you to realise that you do have choices. You sound so worn down and trapped.

Mumsnet has helped many women get away from impossible situations and can help you. I should know, I was one of them.

I have no idea why him admitting it is such a big deal to me.

Perhaps I want him to admit the hurt he has caused and acknowledge that even although I am asking for the split, his refusal to engage in family life and probable infidelity are the cause, so he can't turn blame on me.

I think a big part of it may be wanting to make sure I have done everything possible to make it work for the DCs. I remember the immense sense of "failure" I had when DD's dad vanished when she was 6 weeks. I was given no explanation from him, which at the time was hard to handle. Looking back he was just completely immature (he was 21). I felt I had failed DD and this relationship was supposed to be the "family" for her - we got married fgs!

I can't be sure I have done everything possible unless I have proof he is cheating. If he really was working over 100 hours per week and saving for the family as best he could I would not feel justified in ending things. But deep down I know he isn't - he is somewhere else for those hours each night.

I know I'd get WTC and CTC, I would not get housing benefit though as I own half of this property outright. He doesn't own any of it however we are married and he is registered here and registered his "interest" in this house so I cannot just throw him out just like that - think he would need to be arrested for violence or sale forced because of divorce before I could force him to move out. This is why I cannot move out though, as no entitlement to HB and I would still be jointly liable for all bills here too. he would not pay them in full I doubt. He doesn't really want to stay here himself anyway, just stubbornly doesn't want me to get the house. He has plenty of places to go, unlike me and kids.

Thank you for your kind words. I hope MN can help me too.

I will email you with something that a private detective told me. Hope it helps. I've been in this position and was nearly driven mad by it - the need to know is absolutely overwhelming, isn't it?

Thank you atswimtwolengths, but I have no idea how emailing works on here? how will you get my email address? x

Sounds like the hardest thing for you is being treated like a complete idiot. It's so demeaning, and just goes to show how very much he's underestimating you.

Sounds like you need to know you are right, that you are not insane or deluded, and you would like to be publicly understood. I think another reason you're after proof is so that he will have little comeback when you tell him he has to leave. There will be less fight, he will be obliged to simply hold his hands up and you wouldn't have to explain your move to anyone - his behaviour will become common knowledge and he will be subject to at least some degree of public humiliation (maybe revenge is in the mix there, somewhere, but it's hardly surprising, is it? Anger/hurt.. it's all in there somewhere, I'm sure.) His family would be obliged to keep supporting the DCs without subjecting you to a hard time, too.

I do see why some people on here are saying you need to leave regardless (probably, yes), but I'm not sure it's that simple for you. I totally understand where you're coming from.

What this situation is doing to you is just appalling. I cringed for you when I read the initial post.

Oh, and another thing you could do (though sounds like you've already started) is investigate what your financial and practical setup would be in the event of him leaving. Can't see him walking away with much unless any of the kids go with him (highly unlikely, given his incredibly long working hours.. ) Housing you and your charges will require all the resources your house provides, I doubt there will be much left over for him. Obv, I could be wrong (am not a solicitor) but I think there are reasons why he's treating it as a doss house.

Thanks Missmehalia. You have summed it up very well. His parents will continue to support me with the DCs but he will no doubt spin them a yarn about why I have told him to leave, and obviously they do know what he is like but will be lenient on him, and this makes me angry as he has shown extreme neglect of his children (particularly his own biological child) , their grandchild so I wish they would take more of a stance instead of just shrugging shoulders. They are of the view (well his mum is) that the worst thing a man can do is cheat on or leave his wife, and everything else is just domestic issues to shrug shoulders at . I'm not of that opinion - I think mental torture and never seeing your kids is on a par with cheating.

I do feel like an idiot. I think he feels he is such a "great catch" that whilst I may protest and threaten I won't actually leave him as he seems to think I want to hold on to him at all costs. He actually said the other day "and then where will you be?" when I said the situation is intolerable and has to change. . I felt like saying I'd be in the exact same bloody place as you make no input anyway you selfish b*stard. I didn't say that of course as he would say that I was being abusive if I said that. He really is underestimating me there.

I don't know much about the legal side of things either but he does treat the place as a doss-house. He literally leaves before we are up or just after, comes in to eat at lunch-time when I'm at work and DC's not there, then drops them off at 6pm - doesn't even come through the door! Just drops them and goes. Comes back at bed-time and eats a sandwich and a cup of tea, has bath maybe then straight to bed. NOBODY works from 6/7am til 10pm 7 days a week, or do they? Does anyone here know of anyone who does these kinds of hours?

Makes me seething with resentment and annoyance every day.

Isn't there a way of seeing all texts that have been deleted on a mobile phone - I think I have seen this mentioned on here before but can't remember the details. There was someone in my area that advertised this service, but that was ages ago.

He is treating you with utter contempt and clearly thinks he is cleverer than he probably is. It's obvious that you left the relationship emotionally a long time ago (and with good reason), so I read it that you want proof to wipe that smirk off his face and prevent him from telling lies about why the marriage ended.

Is he on contract for his phone? If so, does he do online billing? It's easy to register him for this with an old phone bill to hand, which will have his contract number on it. This will give you access to 2 years worth of bills in some cases. I haven't come across a single affair in the past 10 years that hasn't involved the phone as a tool of the trade.

There are devices called Simcard readers that are meant to read the last 20 or so deleted texts, but as I understand it, these won't read messages that were saved on the phone's memory, only those on the SIM. I assume you've checked both phone and SIM memories on the phone?

In one of your posts, you said you had an inking where he was. Do you mean you have a suspected OW and think you know where she lives? If so, it would be relatively easy to find him there, wouldn't it?

Have a good look for a second phone too, in case he isn't really deleting stuff and is using another phone. Look for it anywhere that he considers is not your domain.

The other clue is in his fuel receipts. I assume he has to keep these for tax? Also, does he pay VAT? You can see whether his fuel receipts and tax records tally with the mileage and earnings he is claiming.

All I would say to you is, don't let this go on and on because this sort of hyper-vigilance is exhausting and demeaning. There comes a point (long ago in your case, IMO) when proving infidelity is the least of your worries. You've got enough as it is to prove unreasonable behaviour. It is okay to say you don't want to be married to a man who acts like a lodger.

Give yourself a time limit of a few weeks at most to get your evidence and if you don't get it by then, call time on this. The truth will out eventually and if you do split up and he miraculously "meets" an OW within days or weeks, if anyone in your circle believes that crock of shite, smile sweetly and tell them you'd credited them with more savvy.....

About two years before my ex left I had this feeling he was cheating, he was horrible to me, I even went to see a solicitor and started to stand up to him after he was horribly abusive towards me, I did not realise it was abuse at the time, I thought he was being very mean. I stood up to him and he was lovely to me and loving, everthing settled down and I let the whole thing go, i so very much wish I had left him when I felt strong then, rather than allow him to abuse me further and leave me in a weakened state, I have this horrible feeling that he had planned to be nice and leave and fool me to be honnest. I have no idea if the ow he left me for was about then or if it was someone else, she was definatly about the few months before he left!

If I could advise you from a position of hindsight, I would tell you to leave, if you think he is cheating he probably is, unless you are some unhinged paranoid jealous type for no reason, which you don't sound like you are, then your gut is telling you something!

I know exactly how you feel. It drives you crazy not knowing. If you have proof then you feel such relief.

If you can get hold of his phone you may be able to set up a way of listening to his voice mail messages from another phone. I did this with my H's phone. I listened to the answerphone and it says to alter settings or something like that. You need then to know his answerphone number you ring this from your home phone and then enter a code. If there are messages you can hear them.

Whatever happens though do not tell him you have done this. If you hear something from an OW you can just tell him someone has told you or something along those lines. This is a good method as it costs nothing.

And I got my proof in this way.