Could someone explain passive aggressive please

[domeafavour]

Thanks.
I know I could look it up but I don't have the energy!
X

Justthisone, to get it really smack on, she then has to sniff bravely in front of her friends and (for bonus points) her husband's family about how nothing she does ever seems good enough for him.

Argh! yy, TIANC!

This may have been said already. The way I understand it is however passive someone presents, their behaviour is actually driven by an underlying anger, which they may or may not be aware of, or able to express in a healthier way.

It can also be a trait that leads onto depression because the person doesn't express their feelings so they aren't considered.
Also, where feelings have built up over time and are constantly masked by a facade of passivity, they can be triggered by the slightest thing.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong :/

Oops, cross-posted with everyone!

Yep, I think you're right Bookcase. Good point about the masked anger building up - once you've started being passive-aggressive, it tends to snowball, doesn't it?

OMG so it has a name... I think passive aggressive is what Dh does best!

Me: Dh, what do you want for tea?
Dh: I don't know.
Me: Fishfingers and chips (for e.g)
DH: Ok.

Then at tea time he sits apart from the rest of the family and doesn't eat because it "wasn't what he fancied". Not annoying if it's done once but he used to do this regularly and it was a PITA.

Then there's all the times he goes round with a miserable face instead of expressing an opinion.

The question is, what can you do about this behaviour? I've tried speaking to Dh about this type of thing, telling him it would be best if he told me what the problem was so we could sort it. He always says there isn't a problem and goes off to sulk in another room.

It makes me feel like I'm the pain in the arse, like I'm not worth speaking to properly and I'm so irritating that I make him be in a permanent bad mood.

It does Grace. My DH has a tendency to be a little PA but he knows it comes from his family brushing issues under the carpet and never discussing feelings.
I try to encourage him to express his feelings otherwise it just leads to stress on both sides.

scouserabroad, your dh needs to become more aware that he is doing it and learn to be assertive ie: saying what he really wanted for tea.

I think alot of it comes from being worried about expressing needs and emotions in case they become overwhelming. The problem with keeping a lid on it by being passive is the pressure then builds up and becomes too much.

Here's another article

Sorry, I'm on a roll now :)

Oh I recognise so much of this - mainly from my DH and it is so hard to pinpoint at the time it's happening. Or if you do point it out it can lead to an argument which sort of appears out of nowhere.

I get a lot of the one where my DH corrects the way I've pronounced a word, in the middle of a heated discussion - or yesterday while I was making a point during an argument, he looked up at the light and say 'god look at those cobwebs' and I could have screamed but then forgot my point!

How to deal with it though? Really hard to get a PA person to recognise it as PA behaviour, rather than their view which will be that the problem is all caused by you.

I do recognise myself here sometimes also. I might have the urge to correct a pronunciation, or more usually, an incorrect use of a word, e.g. "Did you really mean xyz" - when I know fine well what he meant and I'm just using it to point-score.

But usually it's just that I have the urge to say it, but I can usually restrain mysekf from actually saying it unless I m REALLY pissed off with him - I know it is destructive and bitchy.

Pointing out stuff like cobwebs means "I an mot enjoying this discussion right now so I'm trying to deflect the tension."

I tend to make an inappropriate meant-to-be-humorou remark.

I think we can both be PA - but sadly I am learning how couples argue from him - I have never been a relationship before where we argued so I don't know how to do it. So I basically do back to him what he does to me - it's bringing out all sorts of latent bitchiness in me that I really don't like.

But it gets incredibly exhausting so I prefe to just ignore the entire situation which is what I am doing right now.

He has spent the entire day either in our bedroom or in his study. I have done the entirety of childcare and ALL the washing and drying which we usually share. I took the kids out playing in the snow this morning and we made a snowman - it was great fun.

I didn't make him any tea - didn't even offer.

He went out and got McDonalds.

Basically I am ignoring his stroppy pouty fit and getting on wth my life as if he didn't even exist.

But - get this. He put my Christmas card THROUGH THE FRONT DOOR! When I opened it it had all "To my darling wife" stuff on it.

I didn't know what to do. Why didn't he give it to me, or save it till we were made up? I put it back in the envelope and left it on the hall bookcase.

That sounds exhausting chrysanthemum38! And what was that about the card through the door - it's as if he really does want to communicate with you, but can't think how to go about it now you're both in this situation.

Will you confront it tonight when you go to bed? Don't know about you, but I can't sleep with that type of tension in the room.

I was reading over the comments your DP made to your daughter and I recognised those also! That type of sarcasm makes me so cross. Have you asked him to not be sarcastic with your daughter? My DH is frequently sarcastic, despite me asking him not to be, and our DS1 is starting to do the same which is a bit worrying.

"Have you asked him to not be sarcastic with your daughter?"

That's what started all this - I dared to criticise the way he spoke to her.

I went into the kitchen - my card was in the bin :(

I fished it out and hid it behind the cushion.

I don't know what to make of this - this can go on for several days.

The only reason I haven't left is when it's good - it really is amazing. But when it's bad it is so utterly shit. And we have talked about it so many times - he does listen - there are things we have argused about in the past that I have specfically asked him not to do - he has gone off ad sulked about it for ever then agreed not to do it - and he doesn't.

That's why I think there is hope, because he does listen to what I say and will comply - after an extended period of sulking and "punishing" me for daring to find fault with him.

I just wish we could get rid of the sulking.

It's like there is my husband - who is so amazingly wonderful and kind and loving and caring - then there is this horrible uncaring cruel cold individual who sometimes comes and lives in his body. Now I'm crying :(

Oh Chrysanthemum, he sounds like a total shit, sorry. He's bulying you and your DD because he likes having you both unsettled and desperate to please him. The fact taht he's nice sometimes doesn't make much of a difference, his sulking, verbal abuse and ignoring you is deliberate, it's a strategy to make you understand and accept that he is the Important One and that you must put his wishes and feelings first, and that if you don't you will be punished.

oh that's really sad for you. He put it in the bin? It is like he is using the stupid card to communicate as he can't do it directly.

Obviously you're in a bad phase right now, but it will pass. When it does can you sit him down and explain that sarcasm is a completely unacceptable way of speaking to anyone, let alone your child or step-child, because it is designed to belittle and wound the other person. So can you both agree to not use sarcasm again? I know implementing that might not be easy, but maybe he would be more reasonable if you tackled in in a calm phase, when he's not wound up.

Get him to google sarcasm for it's definition.

I've been thinking about your posts, Chrysanthemum, loves2 & Bookcase. You're all significantly more empathetic than me I tend to see this sort of thing as manipulative, controlling and insulting - and say so rather promptly. I did live this for a while, and found it very unpleasant. As you've said, it seeks to invalidate you.

But ... each of you seems to be saying it stems from an inability to express bad feelings clearly, or a fear of expressing them.

I do recall a few occasions when I've handled passive-aggressive behaviour assertively.

Once was when XH and I had just moved in together. He stormed around the flat one morning, going "Haven't I got any clean shirts??!!?!" I enquired, sweetly, "I don't know, H, did you wash any?" He never tried that one again

He was a big sulker, too. He could do it for weeks. I would go into a slightly insane pantomime mode, speaking to him as if we were having a normal conversation and then saying "Would you like me to ask that a different way? What do you think", etc, then carrying on as before. I was determined not to play the bloody game, but ended up behaving passively-aggressively myself despite my best intentions.

One of my SILs does the 'martyr' act a lot; I have found it very helpful to point out that she sounds angry, and ask her gently what she's angry about. She tends to get her stuff out after that, but I don't feel every martyr would respond as healthily.

I'm afraid that, after a childhood full of dumb insolence and life with my controlling Xs, I do passive-aggression rather too much myself. I work to express myself assertively but, frustratingly, find I'm now p-a against myself!

I'm more than interested to hear everyone else's hints on dealing openly with these "hidden hits" and am following the links from your posts, Bookcase ...

Chrysanthemum, just read your x-post and am afraid I think you're living in the cycle of abuse. Yours isn't a guy who doesn't know how to express himself - he knows just what he's doing and how it makes you feel :(

DH is PA all the time and it drives me mad.

Usually starts sentences with 'Did you not?' and ends with 'no?'

Eg. 'did you not marinade the chicken, no'?

'Did you not get the car washed, no?'

Grrrrr

Are you not tempted to passively-aggressively point out his misuse of double negatives, no?

I do

To go back to your earlier point grace - I don't think I live with a PA person due to being empathetic or cope with it through empathy - I see it as insulting too. But it is hard to call someone on it all the time. You end up living in a war zone. I would rather ignore and have a happy house - I realise that is slightly deluded as I am a seething mass of resentment under my happy exterior but can't see much alternative right now.

Not easy to address/change someone like this especially when they can flip to being lovely thus removing all reason for complaint.

Uh-huh, loves2. As one of Bookcase's links says: if you don't play the game, you can afford not to care who 'wins'.

Pretty crap way to go through life, though. I have no idea whether it's even possible to do it without ending up a seething mass of resentment!

Yes those links were good. I am going to take myself out of the game playing tomorrow. Just be frank and straight and question any bits of sarcasm or PA shit - like the cobwebs comment during an argument - i should have asked what relevance they had to the point I was making and asked whether he was trying to distract me from my point. Is that the best way to not enter into the game?

Hope you get on ok chrysanthemum