Could someone explain passive aggressive please

[domeafavour]

Thanks.
I know I could look it up but I don't have the energy!
X

Is

'I'm going out tonight, is that ok?'

'do what you want'

But not meaning that, is that passive-aggressive.

whenwill and flight you have listed what my ex was doing. Oh he was a master of PA art!

Another thing-i dont know if you would call it pa- they dont give opinions when there is problem but they always do afterr. i.e. in the car: me 'shall i turn right or left?', him: 'i don't know' (his fav phrase). I turn right and when it is obvious thats the wrong direction he will say 'are you stupid? Of course you should turn left' !
They never take decisions or risks, they sit back and let others do but they have opinion after the event.

Another thing, they usually have headaches, stomach aches etc. They make sure they take the paracetamol in front of you and if you ask them they play the martyr and say 'oh no i m ok, i dont want to worry you'. I had a collegue who was doing this. If there was a conflict in the office she would perform her dramatic coughing and then say 'i'm ok don't worry about me'.

I always think Bree in Desperate Housewives is my favourite example of a passive aggressive person.

Surely the clue is in the name?

It's aggressive activity, but with the agency of that aggression disguised, transferred, obfuscated in some way. Usually through the adoption of behaviour that is chosen, because of knowldege of the recipient (of the aggression), to effect pain (emotional) and discomfort.

Surely that's what distinguishes it from things such as sarcasm, politeness, your everyday wishing to avoid conflict?

Intent, surely, is everything. Lots of people avoid conflict, or rather, try to lessen the impact of the potential for aggression in conflict, out of respect, tolerance, affection, base-level politeness. But there is something quite different going on with passive aggression. the urge there is to hurt, but to evade ownership, responsibility, and agency for that hurt.

Agree that it's a bit mad to pathologise it, though. Lots of behaviour will veer off in that direction. My suspicion is that it becomes an issue when it's part and parcel of emotionally/psychologically abusive behaviour: aggressive, controlling behaviour that is difficult to call the perpetrator on.

I forgot to say, also sabotaging other people's fun or special moments either by sulking or imaginative illness. They achieve their goal which is to spoil your mood or your friend's party but they havn't actually done anything wrong, they havn't shouted or swore

Yes yes yes! Some of the responses here are bang on. Lateness, heel dragging instead of saying 'I don't think I'm going to be able to do that/don't want to do that' which would be much simpler all round. Making you dance around trying to 'guess' what's wrong when they know perfectly well what's wrong but still maintain there's nothing the matter. Abstaining from events, or agreeing for example to go shopping and the leaving to do something else all the while acting huffy, instead of simply not going in the first place with good grace.
Using lateness as a weapon. Having to be chided out the door rather than being upfront about the fact they don't want to go to Auntie Susan's, or whatever.
Being off with you but talking about normal things so you have no clue what you've done to offend them and don't feel able to ask because they are talking about the weather, etc.

PA people get everyone around them feeling as pissed off as no doubt they are feeling inside. Perhaps that makes them feel better, I don't know.

And if nobody else has posted this yet (haven't read the whole thread) then: this link is pretty damn good.

So PA would be doing it on purpose to irritate and annoy, knowing that it will have that effect, rather than just doing it out of a desire to avoid direct conflict?

Last night, I asked him if he wanted to eat with us, purely so I didn't make food, have him not come down, so then the food would be wasted and I would be annoyed.

He said he wasn't hungry - fair enough. I made food for the rest of us and left the washing up deliberately to see if he wouild do it, which is his agreed job - I cook in the evenings, he washes up.

Abot half an hour after we had finished, he came down to make a cup of tea. Didn't do the washing up.

So then I went in and did it. I wasn't annoyed, just curious to see if he would do it - a little test if you like. He could argue that as he hadn't eaten, he shouldn't have to wash up. We didn't discuss it.

Was it PA of me to leave it to see if he would do it?

And yes I had to deal with all the childcare, including escorting 3 yo upstairs several times during the evening to uses the loo, with my poorly leg, which he knows about.

Maybe I should start my own thread, I don't know. He isn't like this all the time, just sometimes - but it's like he turns into a totally different person - one who I intensely dislike and could cheerfully hit around the head wth a frying pan.

Chrysanthemum you do need to sort this out. The way you are communicating with each other is far from direct and that can be quite damaging to a relationship.

You're not being PA as such, in that example. But you weren't being direct and it sounds like he often isn't, as well.

It's not a sign of great mutual respect when you both are hedging round what you really think of each other's behaviour, and never getting to grips with it.

I think if you want this to work out, you need to talk to him properly - either alone together or with a counsellor.

Otherwise it just becomes a big mind game the whole time and you lose touch more and more.

Btw - PA people are not always aware of their own innate aggression or anger, they can be conscious of what their motives are on some level but often are not and simply cannot see beyond their own feelings of 'that's not fair'.

I agree with Flightofthecrimbletree.

Chrysanthemum - There's no point in trying to run your relationship on a mixture of telepathy and symbolically-laden gestures. That's not a relationship, it's some weird game of traps, tests, and hermeneutics. You're setting him up to fail, and yourself to be disappointed. And it must be exhausting.

Don't know what's going on with him; you're clearly deeply frustrated, probably because he's not being very pleasant to you.

Whatever is going on between you, you'll lose nothing by trying to get some of this into the open, probably by counselling.

Agree with Flight, PA behaviour can often involve an unconscious element, of deeply repressed anger.

CheerfulV I read that link but still not sure

• think I'm being passively dim now

Do you think my DHs habit of repeatedly correcting even the slightest mistake when I'm talking and especially when I've got a good argument against his and repeating his correction like a robot until I stop and say it correctly is PA ? Or is it just because he cant win that argumment so its a control thing ??

Yes indeed; the partner who actually left me for six years rather than telling me he was cross.

Sorry, crossed posts, that was in response to Animula.

I can understand why you didn't google what passive aggressive is. There are a lot of conflicting statements about it out there. And it can be hard to sift through them sometimes. It's probably easier to ask on here. I sometimes wish I could ask other people to find things out for me, it would save the time and effort of doing the hard work myself.

I was chatting to some Americans the other day who said we're all passive aggressive over here. They reckoned we're not blunt enough and we wrongly see them as aggressive when in fact they're just direct. The woman said that the inability to be straight with each other (sometimes even with good intentions), couches things in an aggressive, albeit passive, way. I'm not sure I entirely agree with her but there's an interesting theory in there.

There is nothing wrong with saying 'I want this' or 'I am cross' or 'I disagree' but I do think there's a general culture out there of finding that rather difficult and it can lead to resentment and strange PA behaviour.

Is it passive aggressive when people squeeze past you and almost drag your coat off at same time ! - rather than say 'Excuse me' ?

I really cant grasp it - I think I've got it then I read something else about it. There is too much out there about it and some of it's conflicting.

< goes for a lie down >

No that's just aggressive!

Think about the actions - are they seemingly 'innocent' or made out to be by the perpetrator?

So, illness for example when really they're not ill at all, or being late because they 'couldn't help it' - not just on occasion (which happens to all of us) but constantly - or when they didn't really want to be there at all?

Or sitting quietly insisting nothing is wrong when you KNOW they are sulking and pissed off.

the actions look blameless but you know there's anger behind it.

Pushing past someone is obviously an aggressive thing to do. So it's not passive aggression. iyswim.

Oooh! Oooh! How about when someone cooks a Christmas meal and then sits down with a heavy sigh and says "now I've cooked all this, I just can't face eating it (roll of eyes)" .... to a tableful of able-bodied, only slightly pissed adults i.e. people who could/would have helped but were not allowed in Command Control (aka the kitchen). My dear ole mum used to do this and I laugh about it but I found H starting to do it too (and he only ever did the sodding bird, I did everything else). Hopefully he will be legally my X come the New Year. It's all about raining on someone else's parade.

I know Xmas dinner is hard work but I am also a control freak like to offer hospitality and don't begrudge the effort. I am also greedy and would never feign lack of appetite when faced with a meal

I saw a corker of an example of PA today. My dappy cousin posted something along these lines on facebook...

HeroShrew's Cousin "..wishes that SOME PEOPLE would bother to call if they were going to come home an HOUR LATE"

I bet she just kept up a martyred silence for her DP. What must he have thought when he saw her status? What a doris.

Just try and think of aggressive as direct, simple, a+b=c.

Passive aggressive is when the aggression, the infliction of feelings, the belittling, the sentiments etc are hidden by what looks like something innocent/passive. On another person it could just be innocent/passive but you know what lies underneath it. That's not even really it but getting there.

It used to be called dumb insolence.
Dumb insolence is actually a military offence, with a specific definition: "a subordinate displays an attitude of defiance towards a superior without open disagreement." The term was widely applied throughout social & education settings, where it embraced a certain type of behaviour with same underlying attitude.

I love this explanation of dumb insolence. It begins:

"you've likely practised dumb insolence at least once as a smart-aleck kid, a snot nosed teenager or a piss-and-vinegar filled twentysomething.

Dumb insolence is (in general) an act of defiance through silent inaction. It can be as little as a glance of the eyes or a knowing grin. It can be as obvious as laughing in someones face and then turning your back and walking away, blowing them off. It can be as frustrating as following every instruction to the letter, no matter how minute or obscure. In any case, as the word "dumb" implies, no verbal response or explanation is (generally) ever given."

Worth a read!

oo Grace that's really interesting. I never clicked that they were the same concept.

Here is an article about it

Yours is a fun read. Great illustrations - your poor Dad!