Children of toxic parents..am I a toxic parent? Long-sorry

[hopelessmummy]

I hope you can help me. I don't know how to make this better.

I have a very poor relationship with my son who I love to bits but he constantly tells me how horrible I am ( in his eyes) and how much he dislikes me. I don't know if he really means this or if it's meant to wind me up and hurt me for past behaviour between us.

He is 24 and has been back at home for 2 years after 4 years at uni. He never earned enough to move out but has just got a good job so will be leaving soon.

The history is this. When he was a child he had problems including ADHD, mild dyslexia, mild dyspraxia, a chronic sleep problem akin to insomnia ( which he still has), food allergies which needed a special diet, and on top of that he was classed as gifted.

The moment his sister was born- there is just a 2 year gap- he became very demanding- and jealous. To call him a "live wire" is a gross underestimation. He used to spend all his time provoking her, hitting her and generally making her and my life hell- until they were both late teens.

I meanwhile was bringing him up almost alone as my DH worked overseas a lot, I was frustrated by only working very part time ( my choice but I found it hard) and battling with 2 chronic health problems of my own.

In short, I was snappy and bad tempered much of the time. Utterly at my wits end and almost suicidal some days. To give you an example, if I told my son he couldn't go out somewhere he would climb out a bathroom window. I also criticised my DH in front of my son for not taking a stronger line - DH is very placid, overly tolerant, not very good at expressing emotion or anger, and avoids confrontation.

This nearly split us up many times- and may still do as I bear resentment for where we are now.

Now though DH and son are best mates and my son likes nothing better than to get dad on "his side" talk to him like a mate, and criticise me to him in front of me. DH tells him not to, but not as strongly or firmly as i think he should- certainly not enough to make my son stop, as this carries on daily.

My BF sums it up by saying that I am the strongest one in the family and my son resents this, which is why he sides with his dad so they can "join forces" against me.

Last night we were having a mild argument over something ( my son and I) and he called me a stupid cow, in front of and to my DH, and DH just mutters "don't talk like that". nothing more.

At every opportunity my son tells me how much he dislikes me, has no respect for me etc- yet will still have the nerve to ask me for favours such as lifts out at night and drop offs at the station. (He has a car but won't ( sensibly) drink a drop and drive.)

I don't know if he does really hate me, but he seems in complete denial over his part in it all. Whenever I try to remind him of how he was when he was younger he simply says I have spent 24 years "being horrible to him" and that I am a "horrible person".

I don't know how to build bridges and if we ever can. My BF says he will never understand until one day he might have kids of his own.

Any ideas?

I agree with your best friend. Your H should go nuts when your son says that he dislikes you.

At the same time, I don't think it's helpful of you to "remind him of how he was when he was younger". He was a child- a difficult child, and it must have been horrible for you, but please don't guilt trip him about it now.

(I am not a child of a toxic parents btw, so sorry if you only wanted replies from more experienced posters, I'll shut up now!)

He sounds like he is being very childish.

But "reminding him of how he was when he was younger" is not very nice. So, as a small child he was jealous and acted out and since then he has pushed his boundaries. You can't let that define your relationship now.

If you are expecting him to behave like an unpleasant child then maybe he is simply meeting your expectations.

I was quite unwell as a child, and difficult as a result, and my mother used to go on about that. It coloured our relationship until I pointed out to her that I had grown up: why couldn't she move on? Since then things have been much better. We both stopped overreacting, for a start. You both have to leave the past where it is and stop apportioning blame or expecting the other to take responsibility for things that happened years ago.

Your DH is a separate issue and he shouldn't tacitly accept your son being rude to you. As your son is now 24 I suggest that your DH should do what he can to accelerate his moving out. Once he has, you may find that the distance helps.

Thanks.I must add that we have done verything we could finanacially and emotionally for him over theyears- spent a fortune on private health care for his problems, I bought him the little run about he now uses, and pay for the insurance, and we also funded his masters degree which he is going to repay in time.

However, when I mention any of this as a sign that I care, he belittles me and says it's all my DHs money, says "you earn nothing" in a sneary voice, which drives me insane. I earn about £20K by working part time and we need that money. I chose to work p/t to try to be a good mum.

How would you feel if your son said he hates/dislikes you and you were a stupid cow, whilst your DH carries on watching TV and just mutters "don't talk to your mum like that, you need to leave home now".
No threats, no consequences, still best mates....

You don't sound toxic.

I would stop doing the favours though. How much do you do for him, ie ironing, cooking etc.

If he wants to be treated as an adult then he should perhaps start behaving like one. I came back from University with a new found respect for my parents.

The main problem here is your husband, there sounds little love or respect between you. If your son dislikes you so much then now that he is an adult he should be moving out. You don't sound as though you like him much either.
What do you now want to do with your life given that your kids are now adults?
Nothing is now stopping you living alone or working more hours if you can get them.
I'd be demanding your husband is more supportive and your adult son given boundaries and house rules.

He does his own washing and ironing- I am not "allowed to" as I'll mess it up.

I cook the evening meal and most days there is a criticism as it's not done right- he is a brilliant cook- but he cannot see how hurtful it is to be criticised all the time, even when I try to point this out. Doesn't say a word to DH who cannot cook one single thing and never has. Ever. Tempting to make him cook his own food but 2 meals in the kitchen in an evening would be worse.

He has the odd day when he talks to me as an adult- nicely- but 90% of the time he tries hard to belittle me. If I wasn't a strong person I would have left by now or soemthing. DH has some sleeping tablets which he was prescribed for a problem years back ( never took them) but I used to look at them in the drawer and think how easy it would be to opt out- only the thought of my daughter ( she is great and we get on well- she is at uni) stopped me.

He doesn't do a thing to help at home. My Dh has asked him to stack the dishwasher or do litle stuff like that but he doesn't and DH just backs off and forgets.

2rebecca- it's not as bad as you say. I work freelance- so some weeks I am actually working full time, others not as much.

My DH "adores me" according to my BF who knows us well...he just isn't that strong or able to muster anger etc when needed.

Son will move out striaght after Xmas I think- he is looking- but that doesn't change the past or how we can move on and hopefully have a better relationship- is he going to hate me all his life?

Why do you want to confront him now, when he is just about to leave anyway?

I am not confronting him now- the arguments and nastinesss from him are ongoing and I want to know how to make it better, as I feel once he goes that may well be the end of our relationship.

The reason I asked if I was a toxic parent is that there are always posts here from "children" who are harbouring resentment as adults and I don't want my son to do that.

Your DH is afraid of your son.
It's that simple.

Unprune- what makes you say that? And if so, what next?

Let him go. Fair dues to you for putting up with this much hideous behaviour. Toxic (adult) child more like. Sue Townsend calls them Grownies.

When he has kids then perhaps he will grow up a lot and realise what he has done to you.

Just because he is your child it doesn't mean that you have to accept his crap. You wouldn't accept it from a colleague would you?

Can you talk to your son about the way you feel? Maybe have husband there as well?

Just because he is your child it doesn't mean that you have to accept his crap. You wouldn't accept it from a colleague would you?

Precisely. I have used the same words to him- told him that I would not have anyone else in my life treating me like this and that it is only because I love him that I have put up with it.

If he's 24 he's quite old enough to live somewhere else if he doesn't like the company. I don't believe you owe it to your children to provide for them once they're capable of looking after themselves (different if they need your help) and I do believe in being treated with respect in my own home.

That said, your son did have a lot of problems that tend to contribute to behavioural difficulties, and it wouldn't be surprising if they were still affecting him now to some extent. No doubt your DH has this in mind when he cuts his son what you would consider too much slack. You appear to be sure that the young man has full self-control and has chosen to be unpleasant; his father appears to feel he can't help it. The truth is probably somewhere in between, as it often is.

Sometimes, you know, people with a lot of "issues" do take it out on their nearest and dearest because they feel safe to do so. If you had been genuinely horrible, he wouldn't dare to be rude. You are his scapegoat for the world's ills.

I wouldn't recommend continuing with the "everything we've done for you" tack as it isn't working. The "ask politely if you want something", in best assertive "broken record" technique, might be worth trying. Both parents need to stick to this though (eg if son demands a lift, you ask him to phrase the request differently, so he turns to his dad and says "will you give me a lift as the old cow is being funny about it", DH has to back you up!).

2rebecca- I have tried before- and he listens but then accuses me of being "horrible". I have on rare occasions sobbed in front of him saying how he hurts me so much and how I never wanted it to be like this. He accuses me of not respecting him and being "horrible. he tells me I am a horrible person. It's as if he doesn't want to know- or care.

I know it must be shit to feel as though your son hates you but you can't make him like you if he's determined to spend his time feeling resentful.

What you can do is sit him down, say (unemotionally) that you'd like for both of you to have a clean slate, develop a proper relationship, and treat each other like adults. If he's up for that, great. If not, then he really ought to move out right away. I don't think you should put up with someone living in your house who can't behave decently towards you. Maybe speak to your DH first and make sure he supports you in this (as he should).

There is no way any 24 year old who spoke to anyone in my household like that would be welcome to stay.

The next time he starts just point him to the door and tell him he's free to leave whenever he chooses.

I agree that you shouldn't blame him for how he was as a child. But that doesn't mean you should accept his abuse. Because that's what it is.

He sounds vile. I pity any woman who has a relationship with him.

He really needs to sort himself out.

When he leaves he might finally appreciate what you have done for him.

He sounds totally spoiled & selfish.

If my 24yr old told me daily that he didn´t like me & criticised me daily he wouldn´t be living with me.

It´s more like he´s a toxic son tbh.

If it was a parent treating you like this, everyone would be saying to cut contact so that they couldn´t treat you like this anymore.

'and that it is only because I love him that I have put up with it.'

You really really don't have to put up with it. He can't move out fast enough for you, and DON'T let him move back in in the future.

And I say all this as a person with a brother who sounds very like your son.

"I don't know if he does really hate me, but he seems in complete denial over his part in it all. Whenever I try to remind him of how he was when he was younger he simply says I have spent 24 years "being horrible to him" and that I am a "horrible person"."

You said you wanted an opinion of a child of toxic parents - well, here goes and you might not like it!

What you wrote there is just awful and really sums up where you are going wrong. He was a child you were an adult. How dare you blame him and continue to blame him for not being a 'good child'! You admit yourself he had health issues - so that's not his fault, you do know that? So what is his 'part'? Also you admit you had mental health issues and as a result were snappy and bad tempered. So you have a sensitive child that reached out in an annoying-to-you but essentially normal way for a child and you were not able to respond to him because of your physical and mental health issues. Which are not your fault either. Today, both of you are desperately trying to attach blame for the situation on each other.

If you want to fix this, you need to make the first move because you are the adult / parent. Its no good saying he's an adult now too because you are both still trapped in the pattern that was established in his childhood. That's probably why he talks so outrageously to you.

If you don't think you can do this by talking alone I would suggest you get a professional therapist in to help you both talk to each other and to keep it positive.

Tell your son you have been thinking about what he says to you, make him feel important and listened to and that you want to fix your relationship as adults. Tell him you are sorry and that you want to stop the blame game. Otherwise he's probably going to move out and never look back.

I can advise you this because I was in a similar situation with my Mum. She had to apologise to the child before she could build a relationship with the adult. We have the best relationship of any DM/DD I know now because we have been completely honest and stopped the blaming. We feel empathy for each other and we believe each other has good intentions. I used to hate my Mum so much and it just falls away once you make a real relationship. I wish you luck - I think this could be fixed pretty easily.

i agree with the prune, your dh is being a coward here, it's absolutely disgraceful. love for your children is unconditional (ish) but i don't know how you could love a man who lets his child treat you like this. would you if the child was a step-child?

I don't know what next. Talk to your DH about it? Ask him how he sees the situation?
Your son needs to not be living with you, for many reasons.

1. He isn't able to be part of the family. He can't behave with respect. Stop accepting this.
2. He is 24, he should be independent. Beyond a certain age, good parents help when needed, they do not provide sole support.
3. He needs to learn not to use you as a crutch for whatever is going on in his psyche, and he can't do that while he is around you. He is most likely not in the least bit capable of seeing that, so you two have to be strong enough to help him break free and deal with his demons.

(NB I am not qualified at all, I just have a very horrible family dynamic, a brother who has had a problematic upbringing and manages to get exactly what he wants from my father whilst treating him abominably.)

I think you need to set a few rules - and get your dh on side.

For starters, i would tell him that if he cannot respect you, he can move out. Today.

Second, stop treating him like a child. He should be paying his own insurance and his own bills and contributing to the household expenses - 1/3rd.

Next time he moans about your food, tell him you expect him to take over cooking duties from here on in. And shopping. He can use his contribution to family expenses to do all the grocery shopping from here on in. Because its very easy to critisise and make fabulous meals once in a while....but when you have a bad day and you are tired and you walk in and have to figure out what the heck you will feed your family tonight, taking into account who likes what...thats a burden, a chore.

I think you sound like a bullied parent, one with no support and with a child who takes you for granted. The sooner he moves out,the better, but in the interim, treat him as you would any other lodger, and demand that he pulls his weight...physically and financially.

And don't resent the closeness of father and son. Its a good thing. Just get your DH on side. His method of softly softly may just be more effetive.

Oh and your son is pushing your buttons. So next time he tells you what a rotten mum you are, just agree with him. Then tell him you are sorry and WALK AWAY. Having not provoked a reaction, he may stop with the negativity.