Children of toxic parents..am I a toxic parent? Long-sorry

[hopelessmummy]

I hope you can help me. I don't know how to make this better.

I have a very poor relationship with my son who I love to bits but he constantly tells me how horrible I am ( in his eyes) and how much he dislikes me. I don't know if he really means this or if it's meant to wind me up and hurt me for past behaviour between us.

He is 24 and has been back at home for 2 years after 4 years at uni. He never earned enough to move out but has just got a good job so will be leaving soon.

The history is this. When he was a child he had problems including ADHD, mild dyslexia, mild dyspraxia, a chronic sleep problem akin to insomnia ( which he still has), food allergies which needed a special diet, and on top of that he was classed as gifted.

The moment his sister was born- there is just a 2 year gap- he became very demanding- and jealous. To call him a "live wire" is a gross underestimation. He used to spend all his time provoking her, hitting her and generally making her and my life hell- until they were both late teens.

I meanwhile was bringing him up almost alone as my DH worked overseas a lot, I was frustrated by only working very part time ( my choice but I found it hard) and battling with 2 chronic health problems of my own.

In short, I was snappy and bad tempered much of the time. Utterly at my wits end and almost suicidal some days. To give you an example, if I told my son he couldn't go out somewhere he would climb out a bathroom window. I also criticised my DH in front of my son for not taking a stronger line - DH is very placid, overly tolerant, not very good at expressing emotion or anger, and avoids confrontation.

This nearly split us up many times- and may still do as I bear resentment for where we are now.

Now though DH and son are best mates and my son likes nothing better than to get dad on "his side" talk to him like a mate, and criticise me to him in front of me. DH tells him not to, but not as strongly or firmly as i think he should- certainly not enough to make my son stop, as this carries on daily.

My BF sums it up by saying that I am the strongest one in the family and my son resents this, which is why he sides with his dad so they can "join forces" against me.

Last night we were having a mild argument over something ( my son and I) and he called me a stupid cow, in front of and to my DH, and DH just mutters "don't talk like that". nothing more.

At every opportunity my son tells me how much he dislikes me, has no respect for me etc- yet will still have the nerve to ask me for favours such as lifts out at night and drop offs at the station. (He has a car but won't ( sensibly) drink a drop and drive.)

I don't know if he does really hate me, but he seems in complete denial over his part in it all. Whenever I try to remind him of how he was when he was younger he simply says I have spent 24 years "being horrible to him" and that I am a "horrible person".

I don't know how to build bridges and if we ever can. My BF says he will never understand until one day he might have kids of his own.

Any ideas?

Am I the only one being reminided of "We need to talk about Kevin"?
Not suggesting that your son will become a mass murderer of course, but there are a lot of parallels.

It sounds to me as though he has a bad case of sibling jealousy and resentment. He looks back to his childhood and sees all your good attention going to his sister, and all your bad attention focussed on him. That may well be because he was hideous and difficult, and I'm sure you never wished it that way - but that is what he will remember, and he can't get past it.

To those saying hopeless shouldn't be reminding him of how horrid he was - well, no, not if it's an irrelevant dig - but if it is in the context of a discussion about why he felt persecuted as a child, and why she found it hard to cope, then surely she needs to be honest with him about the strain she was under? He's a grown man - he can deal with it now, so long as it is handled properly.

the last 2 posts are helpful, thanks.
I have tried to demonstrate affection to him- arm round shoulder etc- and he recoils and brushes me away.
I think what upsets me most is that he has grown up thinking he is not loved which could not be further from the truth. When he was younger, his bad behaviour was all about insecurity and attention-seeking. I can see that now but at the time I did the classic wrong thing- I rejected and scolded him rather than making "special time" for him and me.

I do feel a failure there.

However, do not forget that I was housebund almost at times for 10 years with a health issue- which was not visible to anyone by the way- and angry that I was becoming almost disabled by it.

This was not remotely mental health- it was physical.

I am not saying this as an excuse but anyone who has got health issues knows they wear you down and make you grumpy .

So help me with this- hehas asked for a lift to the station later this week as he has a do at work whch will involvelots of alcohol. I said last night that I was not doing it- after he called me s stupid cow-in front of DH-( he looks to DH for a reaction and usually DH under-reacts which makes DS feel great) it will actually put me to some inconvenience re. my own working hours that day- out of house earlier than I need ( 7.30am) and will be hanging around. Should I now say we wipe the slate clean and I will take him?

Hopeless your last post is very poignant. Especially where you acknowledge what happened to your son.
You are only human and it is ok to make mistakes. It is just finding the best way to communicate this to your son now. That is the hard bit because he has closed off from you.
How would you feel about writing that last post in letter form to him?

It's not possible to wave a magic wand and just say 'wipe the slate clean'.

Do you have to drive a grown man to the station? No.

Btw, your reaction to your physical health was mental ill health.

I agree with the others who have posted that you need to get yourself sorted out first before you can work on your relationship with your son.

Pointless to write a letter at this point as OP is still defending her behaviour.

Re. Your question "Should I do it?" Immediate answer is "Why not your dh?" Seems he wasn't around much before, so maybe he can put a few hours in now.

I'm sorry, I don't want to upset you, but I think TheRudeEnglishLady has a point. Suicidal feelings, yes, they are a mental health issue. And that is OK. It's no more an indictment of character, or something to be ashamed of than a cold.

Seriously, you are an mn-er. You must read the number of posts on here that touch on this (far too un-talked about) aspect of mothering (and it is mothering, because it is, still, preponderantly mothers who do this, and mothers who feel this).

It is, I repeat, nothing to be ashamed of. But it is necessary to accept it wasn't your child who did this to you. It was more likely to be society and its structures, that left you unsupported at a difficult time.

No I agree I meant the first paragraph really but I take your point.

As the daughter of a toxic mum, I can say that one of the blocks to our having any kind of decent relationship now is the reminders at every opportunity that I was "difficult" as a child. I wasn't. She was an inadequate mother who rarely made an effort to put me first, made me a scapegoat and preferred my brother.
She also had mental-health issues which she never admitted to and again like the OP I suspect she blamed them on me.
Cleaning the slate will take a huge amount of work if it's possible at all. It's not the same as sweeping it under the carpet, which I suspect is what you would really like to do. It will have to begin with you accepting responsibility, hopelessmummy. He was a small child. You were an adult.

Practical first- my Dh can't take DS to station as he will be away with work.

I did not have a mental health issue, and I am not in some kind of denial over it-- I was feeling very low with my physical health and my son's behaviour as a teenager. I wish I had never mentioned the suicidal thoughts now as some of you have taken those on board too much. I am sure that many people think of suicide when they are low as any easy option- it was never a serious thought, just a fantasy about escaping the situation at home.

I am afraid that although some of you have said things that are helpful, others have made me more confused. Some of you say start all over again- which makes me feel I should offer a lift to the station- others say no.

I also don't feel I have any "issues" to sort out, other than the lack of support from DH- though he feels he did give support- and my own childhood was very loving.

The only issue I have is that I made mistakes as a parent to my son, - we only get one chance at it and I didn't get it right- and now I need to know how to heal those mistakes.

Ok I have to go.

'I think what upsets me most is that he has grown up thinking he is not loved which could not be further from the truth. When he was younger, his bad behaviour was all about insecurity and attention-seeking. I can see that now but at the time I did the classic wrong thing- I rejected and scolded him rather than making "special time" for him and me.'

This for me is your foundation and if you can build on this it will be more helpful that continuing to place blame or excuse behaviours. Your son needs validation.

You have had some really good advice and I really hope you persue the counselling route.
It may seem like a can of worms at the moment but you have made importnat steps today.

I feel you know in your heart your you let your little boy down facing it is the hardest thing. It sounds like you are strong enough to do it. Good luck.

quidddity- okay, so rather than apportioning m ore blame to me, which you are doing, and making me feel even worse, which you are doing, what would you suggest I do- if you have been there as a child, what would you like your mum or dad to do to make it better?

I came here for help- I really don't need reminding of my inadequacies or people implying I have mental health issues.

Sorry hopelessmummy, I shouldn't have been so blunt.
Some of what you have said reminded me painfully of my own childhood and relationship with my mother since then. I was triggered.
There is absolutely no chance that my own mother would do this, but if you could tell your son some of what you have been brave enough to tell us, about how sorry you are at the mistakes you made, that you know that sometimes you made the wrong parenting decisions, that you realise you hurt him terribly, how upset you are that he felt/feels unloved--that would be wonderful.
If you don't think you could have that conversation because he or you would get too upset or defensive, then putting it in writing would be fine.
It wouldn't fix everything straight away but it would be a start.
Counselling might help you too as you may need support in this process and it sounds like you're not going to get it from your husband (who isn't altogether free of blame himself, by the way--he may not have actively hurt your son, but he didn't do anything to help either of you, did he?).
I admire you for facing the facts and wanting to put things right, and I really hope you manage to heal the relationship with your son.

From what I see your posts are all about you, and not your son. You can't make it better, especially if you refuse to listen or accept fault or even consider anything broader than what you do. If you were my parent, I would want you to stop focusing on I-I-I and more on us or me, in this regard. Perhaps consider going to counselling either on your own or as a pair, so that an impartial observer could help us talk through our issues. Because you are not fundamentally going to change and that would be the main obstacle to healing in my view. You can't erase 24 years of pain from your son's life by not exploring fully what happened from both parties perspective and trying to apologise for it. And it is not going to magically get better with time, he will find a girfriend and have children (possibly) and all his hurt will still be there and will affect your future relationship with GC.

just as an observer to this thread, i must say i am losing sympathy for you here, OP. you do seem to be blaming a kid for ruining your life. i agree with the pp who said that in that paragraph where you acknowledge your one parenting error you do have the foundation of something to work with.

but no, i wouldn't get him a lift. that's what friends/taxis are for.

This is hard, hopelessmummy. It's brave of you to admit you made mistakes and ask for help, but at the same time I'm not sure you can expect other posters to come up with a painless solution.

From the sounds of it, his childhood wasn't easy for either of you - but it wasn't his fault. I don't want to 'remind you of your inadequacies' but I do think you need to apologise to him for how he was treated aged 2-18 and for your resentment of that - without any justification.

We know there were reasons why you behaved or had to behave that way. Your son may come to realise it in time as well, but when you make justifications you're essentially saying it's not your fault - but actually it's your son who needs to hear that it wasn't his fault.

"I'm sorry, but..." is not an apology.

FWIW I do think your son is being awful now, but I don't think the relationship can be repaired by glossing over the past and 'starting fresh' without actually talking about it.

HM, I feel you are contradicting yourself a lot and there's shame, guilt, blame, bitterness - allsorts coming out in your posts.

I am convinced that you should go to GP and get referred for counselling, or if this will take to long, go private.

You will never sort this out whilst you are so mixed up.

As for taking him to the station and running round after him - do it if it makes you feel good and if it doesn't don't do it. He can get a Taxi or cycle - its what you do if you don't live with your parents. Why not just go out with a friend or go to the pool or something that night then its not a 'no' just a 'I'm busy'. Make your life bigger so you have less space for others to take from you. People generally respect that. If you a least get some boundaries in a non-confrontational manner you could let this lie till he moves out and then do your counselling journey in a stable and quiet environment.

hopeless, i would reach a compromise with your son - tel him you will take him to the station, but he should make his own arrangements to get home.

Try talking to him in the car - its less confrontational as you will not be making eye contact and he will not have to either.

Tell him that his rudeness is not acceptable, but is understandable, and that you will, from this point on, refuse to do any favours for him if he cannot be civil and respectful.

State your case ie "Im sorry, I was an overly critical mother due to a variety of reasons, but I want to rebuild a positive relationship with you because you are so very special to me. But this is going to take effort on both our parts and we will probably both going to make mistakes along the way. I promise to show you how much I love you, and how proud I am of you. I will promise to stop dredging up the hurt from the past, focus on the positive and the future. I hope you will find it in your heart to start to forgive me and treat me with some kindness."