burying my head in the sand

[ostracized]

Hi, have namechanged for this - don't even know if I have spelt "ostracized" right. Basically, dh and I had an argument almost three weeks ago and he has hardly spoken to me since. He has done this kind of thing before - namely once for 5 weeks two years ago. Then I was desperate for the sulking to stop and eventually got him out of it by "approaching him" in bed. This time however we are a lot more distant and angry with each other and don't sleep in the same bed. I am too pissed off with his general behaviour with me during normal times to approach him physically. This behaviour is fairly companionable but distant during the week and very critical and complaining at the weekends. To the point that I withdraw and become a shadow of my "during the week" self.

During this most recent bout of sulking I have been thinking why on earth should I force someone to talk to me who obviously doesn't want to, though the whole situation does make me sad. Plus we went to see his family this weekend and the sulking didn't stop him saying several critical lecturing things and being generally rude a few times. I was also called "pathetic" on friday. So it seems he can stop talking to me but also "interact" if he needs to .

What worries me this time is that I fear that unless I make some move towards him, he will never talk to me properly again. He has a tendency to do this - he hasn't talked to my sister properly since they had an argument a year and a half ago and doesn't talk to two of his own sisters at all.

I clearly need to say to him that we need to go to counselling. If it was just us I could move on but we have kids. BUT I am scared of suggesting anything for fear of being shouted down. I don't feel I have the strength to deal with how upset I become if he starts being horrible.

Not saying I haven't contributed to the "relationship" being in the sorry state it is, but he is the one who is uncompromising, bossy, critical and complaining.

I clearly have to do something about this but there NEVER seems to be a good time. Dh CONSTANTLY on laptop working and he doesn't seem to care that things are crap between us.
There are lots of things I don't like about him at the moment and he probably feels my dislike, but I am not the one who is so difficult. I am far more laid-back and far less critical. Plus I would love to be able to talk about our non relationship, but he dictates what we can and can't talk about.

Sorry, OP - stupid question. Just re-read your original post that you had to make the move sexually towards him.

Thanks for all messages. Writing again because feeling very down about all of this. Don't know if I am not talking to dh about any of this because in fact I would rather separate and this whole thing would eventually give me an excuse to do so. Afraid I can't see the wood for the trees at all. I fell asleep with the kids at 8.30pm last night but then woke up again about 12 or 1 in the morning and couldn't go back to sleep for AGES for thinking about all of this.

Have you tried talking this through with a Relate counsellor? Sorry if I've missed that in your thread if you have.

I had relationship problems and arranged a hasty 1 hour phone call with Relate and it helped so much. It gave me a chance to voice a whole lot of stuff, get a reality check on it and hear feedback from someone who was neutral. The Relate counsellor gave me her view, not just waffley stuff which I had sort of expected. She then suggested a plan and we're working through that plan, which involves us having individual and couple counselling.

It is so hard when you're having those exhausting middle-of-the-night thoughts - you can't get your head round it all. That's why speaking to someone about it helps.

Is he still not talking to you?? The man has serious issues, I couldn't keep this up for 3 hours, never mind 3 weeks.

I think I'd be packing his bags for him by now, and suggesting a trial separation to allow him to snap out of his sulk. Don't indulge it one bit.

You just can't live like this, it's horrible emotionally abuse and nothing can be resolved with someone who clearly can't communicate.

Would echo what loves2cycle said - a neutral perspective is so useful. Nobody will disagree that your H is being totally unreasonable, it's how to handle it that you may need some guidance on.

Thanks. Will phone relate - is it expensive? The thing about trial separations is that I have no idea where anyone would go and live. Many people are just not well off enough to separate I think!! I've kind of stopped talking to him as well in that when I came home from volunteering today for example, I didn't even look at him as just expecting him to be cold and unfriendly.

Sorry to hear you're feeling down but I think it's really good that you're thinking about it all as it sounds like you've been unhappy for a while.

Don't know how much relate costs but I think the phone counselling is cheaper than in person.

I agree that talking to someone else might help. Also why don't you do some reading about emotional abuse to see if it rings any bells?

Yes I will do some reading. The reason I can't see the wood for the trees is because I know I have done my own damage to the "relationship" by passive aggressively leaving mess around the place for example. On the other hand, he has has been a critical person since day one and this has got a lot worse recently (we used to have ups and downs but at least there were ups and we were actually a couple) culminating in this last year where he complains about everything under the sun every weekend. I don't know how much of me feeling so disaffected is because I would actually give myself the chance of meeting someone else. Have had crush on an acquaintance for ages. This acquaintance is very happily married I think so that's not the point, but can't help thinking I could meet someone else like him. On the other hand I could take my courage in two hands, talk to dh about what I really need, accept some of the things he has to say (as long as he doesn't shout) and try to rebuild my life with him. Can't believe I am actually even fantasizing about something which would split my dcs' lives in two and would mean that I cannot be with them all the time.

sorry, like to give myself the chance to meet someone else

The relate phone counselling was £20 an hour session (over summer months) but now it's gone up to it's previous price of £45. Was some Govt funding apparently. Might be worth asking about the £20 rate though. I got my first phone call 2 days after ringing the central office number.

I would see a phone session as a chance to get everything off your chest. Your own fears that you have contributed, your feelings about the whole lot and let them sift through it with you. When I first phoned I spent almost half an hour off loading and the counsellor responded to it all by saying there was too much to work on in one go, we needed to break things down and prioritise.

D'you know - it just felt brilliant, sharing it with someone and feeling that they were holding my hand. Not taking it away from me but just being there to accept it all without critisism or blame, just 100% acceptance. I don't think my DH had ever really accepted anything I said to that level, so that was like a huge weight being lifted. Surely it's worth a try even if all you do is have a few on your own, to test it out?

Yes, it is worth it. Somehow can't get rid of the feeling that if I was doing something different then "relationship" would be much better. Think I have withdrawn from dh so much because for so long there has been little or no affection and so don't feel really liked.

I know that feeling. It can be impossible to recall whose 'withdrawal' came first. In a sense though it doesn't matter about trying to recall it, though of course if you could it would give you a much greater insight into the problems.

But no matter where it all started, if you have tried repairing things and your attempts keep being thwarted, then there's something not right.

He dictates what you can and can't talk about. He spends all his time on his laptop meaning that talking is less likely to happen anyway. He is the critical one. You sounds as though you have tried really hard. It doesn't look that muddled from an outside perspective, it looks quite clear really, that you have been doing all the trying, he has been doing the bulk of withdrawing.

But hard to work out how you work through all this which is where counselling would help. I also like the Relate set up because you can have as many as you like (or as you can afford) so if you want two in a week to really get to the bottom of something, you can do that. If there is momentum it means you don't loose it if you have several close together.

Have you tried completely ignoring the fact that he is sulking? Just go about your business, passing the occasional cheerful normal remark to him and not reacting to the sulk at all (the way one deals with a stroppy toddler). I don't recomment this at all as a long term strategy, but if he isn't abusive, is just a bloke who has got into an unfortunate childish habit, he may stop the behaviour when it doesn't get the desired result (ie you crying and desperate to placate him and be 'forgiven').
Unfortunately, if he is an abusive controlling man, he may become aggressive if his normal bullying technique isn't working - if he does respond with aggression then you will know that the relationship is beyond salvaging and can take the necessary steps to get rid of him.

That's a very good idea SGB. Sometimes to change the dynamics of a relationship you have to change your own behaviour.

Regardless of who started it, or what it's about, if you change your normal way of reacting, then it might result in a different outcome.

Yes - even if the outcome is worse it at least gives you a new perspective on the situation (ie if he does get aggressive then it becomes obvious that the problem is he is a dick and not anything the OP has done).

There are too many posts running with this theme. It is all very depressing. The reason it happens I believe is that women are better at most things than men - and they resent that. OK, I am generalising - there are some very decent blokes out there - but clearly there are lots more who are not.

SGB - that's very hard to do -long term.

But gardenglory it wouldn't be long term. It is an immediate change needed to get a changed reaction in the other person. Because they are caught in this dynamic together. Something has to change in the dynamic to change the situation.

You're right, it would not work long term. But this stalemate of the sulking will just go on, so maybe changing tack and ignoring the sulking will have a different affect.

Thing is, I HAVE been ignoring the sulking for almost three weeks now, how long will I have to do this for .
The initial argument went like this: our neighbour was over and he was trying to explain to both of us (she is a woman and probably more friendly with me than him but kind of a mutual friend) where a particular piece of land maybe for sale was. He said to me - behind the "crazy woman's" house. I knew full well who he meant - he was referring to someone who used to be a friend of mine who has kind of paranoid tendencies. I haven't particularly fallen out with her but don't really see her socially anymore - her son however, is in my middle dd's class so I do see her. I resent him talking about her in this way in a derogatory fashion because she is simply someone with slight mental health issues, not someone to be derided - he has also referred to her as fat in past - she is overweight.
So, in front of our neighbour I got kind of cross about this and told neighbour (who also knows her a little but who is far more into and accepting of emotional issues than dh) that said "crazy" friend is simply fragile and prone to paranoia. I then said to dh "like the time you called my other friends "silly cows"" - which he had - some other mothers who were coming over for tea one day. Maybe because he resents the fact that I tend to clean up more if people are coming over (true that kitchen often a tip). However I resent having some of my friends called silly cows just because they do not pay him all that much attention.
So (to cut a long boring story short), when our neighbour left dh was really angry that I had said these things in front of her. I got angry back asking why was it okay for him to say these things to me but other people shouldn't find out. He was implying that it was some kind of private conversation between him and me and that I was spilling the beans to someone else. For me however, the silly cows comment was not a private conversation but him being demeaning about people I like in a very dismissive manner and I have no loyalty towards him over this. Dh then said he would tell people things about me.... Anyway, the end result has actually been the sulk for almost three weeks now. Thing is, I don't even know if dh remembers the initial argument.
If he is slightly slightly nicer in tone I find myself feeling happier but why on earth should I feel happy about him deciding to talk again one day - like some kind of lap dog.

Anyway, we have lots of issues but the above is apparently what the sulking is about.

I am supposed to be writing an essay for the course I am on but feel all over the place - don't know how I am supposed to do the reading for it etc... when I feel like this. I am definitely "co-dependent" but then you are supposed to be dependent on your partner (in a nice way) aren't you.
I don't know if women are better than men at things WeeScotsLass. I think they are better at "people" things. The thing dh resents about me is that I am not a good housekeeper. However I find it difficult to "improve" in a climate of non-acceptance and dislike and bossiness.

Anyway, if it's alright I will try some of above suggestions and get back with an update once something has actually happened to unlock my stalemate - thank you very much for all messages :)

He really dosn't like women does he? As he has proved by referring to the ''fat, crazy woman.'' run.

Oh Ostracized this man is a woman-hating shit. He isn;t going to get any better because he hates women. To him, women are a combination of domestic appliance with fuckable orifices, and family pet that needs kicking to keep it in its place. Sooner or later, he's going to escalate towards physical violence, as he sees that his sulking is not having the desired effect any more, or not having it fast enough.

Well to be fair, I am only talking about negative stuff as am thoroughly annoyed and it's nice to feel vindicated. He has always had a rather "offensive" turn of phrase when annoyed - to him the phrase "silly cow" means nothing whereas to me it sounds rude and derogatory. He is very bright but not particularly adept at putting his thoughts / feelings in to words and so they come out in this kind of basic fashion. For "silly cows" read - women who don't really acknowledge him in his own home (some of my friends) and who don't help to clear up before they leave. Still none of his business though as they are my friends. It also depends how it is said of course. He would never hurt me physically but am quite sure he could sulk for the rest of forever - literally.

Does he use these "offensive" phrases when referring to men too? Or is just women?