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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Non communication

175 replies

temponame · 11/11/2010 11:37

If your husband refuses to communicate with you, you have been honest in a not too emotional way but he is constantly defensive, refuses to admit to any feelings or discuss anything about the relationship whatsoever, and then you discover he has gone through your joint email account and deleted every single email between you (home and work) which relate to the contentious issues (money, children etc), would it be reasonable or unreasonble to suspect an affair? Would it be reasonable to ask someone to go on living with non communication from a husband indefinitely?

OP posts:
Justthisone · 12/11/2010 12:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ViviAnn · 12/11/2010 12:53

It looks to me that you are actually out of pocket from living with him, and being married to him.

If you pay council tax and electricity. He pays the other bills. He pays the mortgage, and you the childcare, then he is actually freeloading off YOU. If you were not there he would both have to pay the nursery fees, and higher fees based on 5 days working. He would also have to keep a roof over his and your sons head.

So, can you go to entitledto.com and find out what your situation would be like if you were a single mum? Tax credits would pay a large chunk of your childcare costs. You may actually find out that financially you will be better off as a single mum. I suspect HIS high salary might put you above the tax credits treshold, making you worse off. Sort of.

Then you can show him black and white What your financial situation is with him, and without him, and tell him, that being married to him is too expensive for you, and you and him need to make changes. It is not fair that you are worse off, and he is better off, for living with you.

malinkey · 12/11/2010 12:55

temponame - I don't think you doing anything will make him open up and be honest with you. He just isn't capable or just doesn't care.

I think dignified's post above (11:57:36) sums it up brilliantly. You're trying so hard to find the answer to his behaviour but you can't. It is his decision to behave this way and there isn't anything you can do about it. All you can do is decide whether or not you're prepared to put up with it.

Justthisone · 12/11/2010 12:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cestlavielife · 12/11/2010 12:59

tempo - no - you need to stop thinking "what can i do to make him xxx or yyyy?2

you cannot change his behaviour. only he can.
he might decide to act differently - if you make chnges in your behaviour.

but if this is how he is - he aint gonna change is he???

and he probably does not want to while you still there being wife and begging and pleadng with him - and maybe hanging onto crumbs offered like 2lunch next week"

he has the upper hand.

change your behaviour.

think about what you want.

focus on sorting out financial arrangemetns so you are more of a partnership, if that is what you want.

think about the future in five, 10 years time: what will it be like?

dignified · 12/11/2010 13:06

No , i dont , but i think it might make you feel better and take some of the power of him. I dont think id bother whether he opened up or not.

The prospect of a split is probably quite devastating to you at the moment , so if its not an option for now , id focus on ways to cope . This is what id do , hes already " offered " you access to the other account , so use it . Just get the card and use it , no attempts to discuss .

The silence when asked about weekends is yet another game he plays and an attempt to control. Id ask him once and if theres no response simply state youll be taking them out or whatever . Dont mention it again.

Id make plans with freinds , id be out a lot , and i would just disengage and i wouldnt ever ask him how he feels about this or that. Start focusing on yourself and leave him to his silly games , which is what they are . Have long baths in the evenings , call a freind , just dont be available to listen to him. Why should you ?

And if the prospect of doing that makes you feel shaky and awful ,you need to examine that closeley. Whats the worse that can happen , what could he say , what outcome could there be ?

Hes worked really hard to make sure that your focus is on him constantly , you need to start undoing that . Perhaps start thinking of him in terms of a sulky teen . I suggested reading those books , researching witholding ect because once you read them youll see this for what it is , a well documented tactic to control you which is cruel , premeditated and designed to keep you focused on him .

I would warn though , that generally what happens when one method of control stops working another one is quickly employed .My ex did this . I literally gave up , stopped trying to talk to him and just got on with my own life. He was outraged that his supply of constant attention was cut off and resorted to ridiculous measures to reengage , from telling me dramaticly that he was going to lose his job , that so and so had said something unkind about me , that he was thinking of getting a job in another country, in the end he signed up for internet dating and would leave the page up so i could see it.
He tried everything he could to piss me off and get a reaction .

He was an emotional black hole , no matter how much attention you threw in it was never enough. Dont think for one minuite that he gets annoyed when you try to talk , he loves it. After all , a simple conversation could resolve it yet he chooses not to and instead keeps it going. Ask yourself what hes getting out of it .

If my options were to either resolve a simple issue or keep having it raised , i think id resolve it . Unless i enjoyed it.

Briar · 12/11/2010 13:22

I'm curious temponame...does your DH talk to you at all?? I'm not on about "Where's my shoes?" type questions, but does he do full conversations not related to the money etc.

From your posts it seems all communication is done via text or email...does he discuss what's on the TV, something funny that happened at work or any everyday stuff with you??

Do you 'chat' of an evening?

temponame · 12/11/2010 13:27

oh god
i am now totally paralysed as to how to react. usually i know is preference is that i dont contact him at work. as per this thread i have resorted to emails to try to get some honesty, occasionally it has worked but now deleted. because i am so numb at what is going on and how to react and i did not really engage that much last night he has sent me an email to home and phoned me 6 times this morning, the last time i picked up. no i am not playing a game with him, i just genuinely dont know what is going on now and whether he knows things i dont know, thinks i have found out something (which I havent) or what. him phoning me from work that many times is fairly unprecdented. the reason for the call was to "find out how the double glazing is going" but also to ask me about lunch. i just dont know what to say now. i have typed a little note listing the mortgage and the childcare costs and calcuated if we split those two bills either 50 50 or 70 30 as a starter for a conversation. i guess that conversation is going to be at this "lunch" he wants next tuesday. what to do between then and now i am at a loss

OP posts:
ViviAnn · 12/11/2010 13:29

He is really playing with your head isnt he?

Analyse what you feel for him right now.

Love?

Worry?

Fear?

temponame · 12/11/2010 13:34

Briar yes, what happens in the evening is that i am doing bathtime with babies around 7pm, he comes home and does the dinner which I have usually preped (i.e just put x in oven and y in microwave) then he gives my 2 year old daughter her bottle and puts her to bed whilst i bath baby son then we both eat our dinner infront of tv whilst i breastfeed son then if son is asleep i go for my shower. same every night. he is more than happy to chat about what is on tv. sometimes he tells me something about work. i used to press him for some information about his day at work which is not usually forthcoming and if i was desperate for conversation i would say "what did you have for lunch" or "did you get lunch today". now i have given up doing that. since giving up he occasionally volunteers some info but not always. so yes we do talk about trivial shit and usually he is happy to do so. also we will talk about diy (the windows) and holidays as and when they come up

OP posts:
Briar · 12/11/2010 13:36

Phew...that's good temponame...at least there are some lines of regular communication open.

ViviAnn · 12/11/2010 13:40

But He calls the shots. He decides what communication is acceptable. Such as inconsequential chit chat. And not if op asks specificaly about something, then he blanks her. I dont think it is very good...

Justthisone · 12/11/2010 13:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Briar · 12/11/2010 13:44

I know he calls the shots ViviAnn...but was wondering if there was more going on than just control issues concerning temponame's DH's behaviour...it appears not though.

dignified · 12/11/2010 13:51

What a cock.
My guess is he was feeling a little low on the attention levels seeing as you didnt engage last night and havent contacted him today . See this for what it is Temp , its a little like a child tugging on your skirt." Notice me ! Give me some attention !"

Its a pity your children arent older as you would have witnessed them going through this stage , trying to get negative attention by refusing to tidy their room or taking some silly oppositional stance in order to get a reaction.

If you refuse to engage for the next few days youll probably hear him saying stupid stuff like " im a crap person , i dont deserve you " , or creeping round you acting nice or sorry for himself .

I would leave your list for now and i wouldnt mention it for the next week or so. When you do , if he wont take it on board id casually mention that in that case you,ll be doing extra shifts at weekends , or that theres a job going at suchaplace that is evenings / weekends , your not prepared to go without .

Let him then raise the issue that he doesnt want to be stuck with the dcs all weekend or in the evenings. Ask him what he suggests then.

You need to stop " feeding " him.

timetosparkle · 12/11/2010 13:55

temponame - yes, you must focus on yourself and the children. My experience is exactly that of a man who never wants to resolve any issues - it seems they would rather just have you ask for discussion over and over again, rather than just make things easy and straightforward. I have tried returning the 'silent treatment/refusal to talk' thing myself. I have said, when he gets annoyed (after about 30 secs) after I 'ignore' him in the same way he has me, and I have then made the point to him 'do you see how you react when I treat you in the same way?' His reply is 'I am just like that with you because I don't like arguments!!!!!!!!!'Confused

Yes, sure, that's why you can't just talk like a human being in the first place to avoid all the difficulty in communication!!!!!!

I will try the walking out of the room thing myself now as well. It has been done to me hundreds and hundreds of times over many years.

This has been my scenario, however. I have tried a million times to talk, approach him in the 'right way' and at 'the right time'..... I am sure you still want to try to get through to him, and I understand that.

timetosparkle · 12/11/2010 13:58

If he has got things the way he wants them, why would he want to discuss and communicate with you to change anything?

temponame · 12/11/2010 14:01

yes you are right
but i dont know if he has got things the way he wants them because he wont discuss it. however as you point out it is only me trying to find out how we can make things better not him. i kind of knew he was like this when i married him but me being on maternity leave and very busy with babies has totally brought things to the fore

OP posts:
timetosparkle · 12/11/2010 14:04

Do you find it possible to have any conversations of a 'deeper level' with your H? Other than everyday stuff - I never have.

ViviAnn · 12/11/2010 14:05

So if this is not a new thing, this is WHO HE IS. He is an emotionally abusive man.

So the question is, what sort of parent will he be when your children are 5? 10? 15?
Can you imagine if YOUR dad was like that with you? When you were 5, 10, 15, etc?

FortunateHamster · 12/11/2010 14:05

This seems like a very odd situation and I feel for you, OP.

Is there any chance he routinely deletes all emails (some people like having an empty inbox) or is it just your ones?

I think not only do you need to have an honest and frank conversation about money (which I appreciate is much harder than it sounds) but that it would also be good for you to develop more independence.

My husband and I have wildly differing salaries, but when we did our outgoings/incomings list we sorted it out so that we'd both have some spending money left over (we have separate accounts but mostly as just haven't got around to changing it). So when I go back to work he might pay the mortgage and I might pay the childcare, like you are doing, but the other bills will be arranged so he pays the majority of them. So long as you don't need to save every penny, I think it's a bit cruel of him to ensure you don't have any money left over. Ok, so he might choose to save his (we don't actually know), but I think it's pretty important to have some spare money that you can choose to use as you wish, whether on gifts or clothes or haircuts. Most of it will still go on essentials rather than luxury.

As pointed out, by having his kids and then doing childcare, you have probably sacrificed some of your earning potential. So while he might earn more than you, it's only because you've helped him to. So all the money that comes in should be usable by both of you. You've both earned it, really.

In his mind he probably just thinks 'well I work hard, I deserve to keep it all' (and it could be worse than that if he's being purposely controlling), but it's a shame if he's allowed to get away with that.

You are doing a huge job by looking after your children and it needs to be appreciated and respected.

You deserve conversation.

Get your own email account and start saving some money in a separate account too.

Jux · 12/11/2010 14:16

The next time he walks away call after him "do you treat your colleagues like this?" Might pull him up, at least to ask you what you mean. Then you can tell him how devastating it is for him to bugger off every time you try to talk to him and ask him why, would he get away with that at work? etc.

I don't think you should wait for next Tuesday. I think you need to take some control. Do not let him walk away. Follow him. Reiterate. If he still won't talk, then tell him that if he carries on like this you will have to reconsider your marriage.

timetosparkle · 12/11/2010 14:17

That is something. That you knew how he was like when you married him. Often, it is not so obvious.

timetosparkle · 12/11/2010 14:22

I have, for quite a while, when faced with this kind of behaviour, asked him - how do you think people at work would react to you if you treated them like this. But, there is a total disparity between how they behave 'at work' and 'at home'.

I hope you have better luck (probably not the right choice of words).Smile

temponame · 12/11/2010 14:24

FortuneateHamster thanks for your useful post. I think he has a thing about people who do not work getting money, and has voiced this and I have in my lower moments taken this on board as "people who dont work" as "people on maternity leave" however irrational and illogical this is. yes i have had his children. he sees this as him making great sacrifices at the moment, earning the money, enduring the relative chaos of young babies around and our relationship being somewhat neglected in the newborn months. my nervousness is saying to him "our children are a joint thing and for both of us" i want him to say yes and step up to that and not see his financial contribution as me ripping him off

OP posts: