I love you, but I'm not in love with you!!!!

[cheeselostandconfused]

Well, where do I start...? I have been with my DH since sweet sixteen, we have been together for 20 years and married 12. We have two wonderful children. My DH has been distant from me on an emotional and physical level - I put this down to the stress of the posibility of loosing his job. The job has been confirmed as secure, but he didn't come back to me (emotionally) as I had hoped. The last straw was last weekend. I asked him what was wrong and that if I didn't know what was going on in his head, I couldn't help him. He told me he was "fine". But in the evening he eventually opend up and told me he loved me as a friend (best friend), the sex is great (but it's just sex!)and that he is not in love with me. When I picked myself up off the floor, I asked him why? He said he couldn't give me any answers as he doesn't know and that his head is confused. He cried and I cried. He said he will go to counselling (on his own initially), which is hapening on Tuesday. I have already had one session and the Cousellor gave me the details of this website (so grateful to her already). We have talked and talked...DH said that there is noone else, and I believe him. He is a very honest man, and this is something I have always admired about him. I am totally, lost and confused. How do you get your DH to fall back in love with you? Please help....any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Neicie, people should listen to all points of view and then make their own mind up, it's what grown-ups do

I think the scenarios you are referring to where a poster thanks contributors for helping them see sense are ones where just some acknowledgement of how bad things actually are were all that was needed by the OP

In other words, that they knew something was unacceptable but had received pressure from their partners or families to "carry on trying", "what about the children", "you made your bed" etc

Sometimes it can be a blessed relief for someone to say "you know, you don't have to do this"

Or for someone to confirm that you are not "going mad" and that you are being manipulated. Wood for trees and all that.

So no, the pressure doesn't come from posters saying "leave him", the relationship was already busted before that, bearing in mind the societal pressures that exist for women to be the one who does all the "fixing" and the "trying"

By the time someone posts on here, the situation is often pretty desperate, whether you believe that or not.

SGB I have never ever heard you say anything in support of men. In this instance, the OP's husband is not threatening to do any of the things you say, nor is their marriage in dire straits for the reasons you mention.

Although i agree with some of what you say, i think you forget some things. First, most women do not earn enough to support themselves. I don't know what work you do, but if you can manage to buy a home on one salary then you are lucky. I know you are 45-sih so perhaps you bought when house prices were much lower, or live in a part of the Uk where prices are cheap. Where i am, you cannot buy a studio or 1 bed flat for under £180 K. Most women could not, so finances play a huge part in the decision to leave a marriage/shared home.

The other point is that your views seem very dated- I am older than you by 10 years and I could recognise those opinions of "needing a man" belonging to my mother's generation, but not mine and certainly not my daughters.

i have several friends who are alone for all kinds of reasons and they would not recognise the dependency image you paint.

For the record, I have seen sgb post equally damning indictments of women who behave badly too

AF - often but not always. There is no black and white in a lot cases. We don't read the situations the same way obviously (but I think we might have established that already). I think some people trully don't realise what they are embroiled in and some thread rumble on for weeks before the OP is made to see sense. So yes, I do think strangers on the internet have more influence than you are prepared to admit.

Actually, I think that ironically you are peddling some sort of fairytale which is unachievable. All relationships have blips, hiccups, moments of confusion, times when things don't go so well. Telling the OP to leave her H without having tried to sort it out seems to me tantamount to saying your relationships isn't perfect why bother? Well, no relationship is perfect - people behave badly sometimes. It happens and some times it can be sorted out and other times it can't but all this one strike and you're out business, which is effectively what you are saying, is unrealistic.

And I repeat again that I wouldn't wait forever for it to be sorted but leaving him now, giving up on 20 years is a lot to ask. Quite apart from anything else, if the OP doesn't try and find out what is going on then she isn't going to feel good about herself and she will always wonder if she made the right decision.

I am not "peddling" anything except the point that women, in this day and age, do not have to put up with being treated like a 2nd class citizen by men.

That is all.

Purpplepeony: home ownership is no more compulsory than heteromonogamy. I rent my home. And living on a low income may not be great, but it's still better than living in a nice house with someone who is horrible to you.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said peddling - it was too emotive a word and not what I intended.

Nevertheless I don't see the OP is being treated like a second class citizen - I see the OP and her H as going through a painful time of change and re-evaluation. I don't see as he has done anything terribly wrong except express doubts. Would you rather he said nothing and just upped and left one day leaving the OP wondering what the hell had happened? Depends how it goes from here on in, as to whether he is treating her badly. What is he going to do about his revelation? At the moment the only thing we know he is going to do is see a counsellor and that isn't usually something you need condemn someone for.

Niecie isn't the point what these doubts consist of?
Telling your partner that you have fallen out of love with them but there is no one else and you want to go to counselling - hurtful but honest, thank you. Telling your partner that you mistook "protecting her" as loving her and then highlighting two potential new interests, one of which clearly could be "rescued" the other being her friend while saying you would still like to go on date nights with your partner while she presumably continues domestic duties etc - speaks volumes to the thoughts going on in his head and the type of person he is. Many, including myself, might think that this is an example of how the op is being treated like a second class citizen.
This doesn't mean she should throw away her relationship without trying (if she wants to) but there is value in the message of caution from posters on this thread.

PurplePeopny (and to an extent the OP) what I'm reading from your posts is a slightly horrible submissiveness. 'I must please my man or the sky will fall in'. No it won't. Sorry but it won't.

And women should feel empowered. We have the best divorce laws in the world pretty well. Even if you've neglected your career (for whatever reason) you don't necessarily have to live in poverty because you've divorced.

Many good points made above: women should not live in abusive or fearful situations. I haven't followed it all but I thought that Purple was saying that advice to ditch your partner based on a few posts about him being self indulgent and insensitive might not be the right answer for some.....even though I have have taken a dislike to OP's DH, I can see that OP might decide to try to make it work.

My advice to OP is only to do so on her terms...no submission or hint begging or anything like that.

Cheese I hope you are ok ? It must be awful reading some of this which is all about your personal feelings . I didnt know about MN when I was going through the split and in some ways I am glad because I dont know if I would have been strong enough to take so much frankness in the early weeks.

I agree though that this is all just opinions /advice and only you will know what to take on board and what to discard as irrelevant to your situation.

Good Luck and keep strong

I hope Cheese appreciates the debate as much as I do. It is often helpful to see what a bunch of objective strangers make of your situation unclouded by emotion and hurt.

AF I am someone who listened to your advice and eventually left my DH. Bizarrely after I had confessed my affair to him and told him "IDLY" he posted on MN pretending to be a wronged wife. You told him to "tell the fucker to fuck off!" in robust AF style.

He didn't but I did! He deserves better even if he doesn't believe it. And so do I. (Name changed twice since then and thread deleted).

Sorry OP for hijack but you are getting good advice. Hope you are feeling strong today

stagefright - I have advised caution myself on several occasions and suggested that she doesn't spent too long sorting it out.

As I also said before this guy is not dealinng with this very well but I still think a lot of this trouble is bound up with being so worried about his job. His self esteem probably took a nose dive because of that and perhaps if he felt his employer did not want or need him, he started looking around to see if anybody did and realised tht because she was stronger now than when he met her, even his wife didn't need him. Falling out of love with her is a reflection of his own feelings about his self worth. He is making an effort to be with her and for them to spend some time together. If he had just walked away or was cutting the OP off I could understand all the don't bother comments but he hasn't.

I don't see it as submissive to try salvage the relatonship. Who says she is doing it because she is being needy and wants to please him and she is clinging on to him. All a big presumption. Maybe she is doing it for herself because she wants to retain something in her life which has brought her contentment for a long time. Nobody can treat her as a second class citizen if she doesn't let them - he can say what he likes but that doesn't make her second class. And where does it say she is expected to be his skivvy and do everything to keep him happy? We don't even know if the OP works let alone what the division of their domestic duties are.

Far from being submissive I see the OP who is taking the problem by the horns and dealing with it. She isn't going to give up without a fight, it would seem.

I also think some of you are forgetting this is a 20 yr relationship. It would be entirely different if it were only a year or 2 but they have had years together. There is nothing to suggest anywhere that he hasn't been a good partner for many of those years.

I do think that the problem with MN is that so many people pick up one phrase from any OP and then pin all their comments on that, without knowing the true situation.

There is a certain level of double standards too. WWIFN is always advising people to be totally honest - such as about affairs or attractions- so that the marriage can be saved ( which it might, or might not be.)
But here we have a man who has made a stab at saying how he feels- which may not be a very accurate account as he is obviously confused, and soul-searching for answers, and he is being condemned by almost all of you for having expressed his feelings.

Is it not possible for you to understand how the conversation might have gone: he tells her something is not right- it may be that he fell into the role of rescuer, and she reciprocated by being needy, or that may not be the reason at all. He is toying with possibilites.

I think it is commendable that he has had the guts to open up and say all is not right for him, rather than have an exit affair, or just do a runner.

At least now, there is the chance of some dialogue.

It really astounds me how so many of you are so quick to suggest this poster ends it, almost in a hissy fit, and flounces off, 20 years down the drain, just like that.

As for the criticism of me personally being passive- well, if you knew me, nothing could be further from the truth.

Suggesting a couple has counselling and tries to save a marriage is not being passive.

There are a few posters here who are trying not to react so subjectively, but a lot of others are dishing out advice based on their own unhappy experiences, and failed relationships.

I think you might have to be more direct here PP and say who you think has double-standards. Since you mention my name in your last post, can I point out that my contributions to this thread have focused on the following issues:

• The process of detachment.
• The good signs that the H in this case wants to go to counselling and therefore has some remaining investment in the relationship.
• A suggestion that the counselling involves an assessment of attachment styles.
• The need for the OP to focus on herself and what she wants from the relationship.
• Caution against subsuming her own needs while trying to meet her partner's.
• Being alive to the possibility that a replacement partner has already been identified by the H.

At no time have I said she should leave, or stop attempting to repair her marriage.

However, I would be enormously wary of endorsing the OP's plan to buy a shelf-load of self-help books about "How to get your partner to fall back in love with you", or any notion that she must engage in activities like golf and pool, if that's not how she wants to spend her time and more to the point, if there were no reciprocal interest from him in the things she wants to do.

A long marriage is certainly worth fighting for, but no relationship is more important than the individuals within it, especially where mental health is concerned. Repairing this marriage is going to take joint effort, not one person trying to like golf, pool or trying to be the perfect woman.

Good post Purplepeony.

Being passive is walking away from a relationship which has been OK for many years just because of a couple of conversations. 'Oh dear, you don't love me any more, I won't bother you any more and we'll split up'. Hardly standing up for yourself is it.

Having a go at saving the relationship is the opposite of passive/submissive. It is doing something rather than letting this man have the final say. The OP will have a lot more self respect if she tries to do something and if she doesn't imo.

WWIFN- i think i was pretty direct as I emntioned your name in the next sentence!

I agree with 100% of what you list as things for the OP to consider.

What i was fiercely objecting to is your stance- and it is usually you- on baring our souls to a partner when we feel the relationship has problems- be that in the form of an affair, at times.

What that situation and this one do have in common though is that one partner has said how he feels and he has, though this forum, been condemned for being honest. yet you are the protagonist of honesty above everything else, no matter how much pain that may cause.

I don't think that playing golf together is for a moment goint to sort out the OP's marriage, or reading books for that matter.I suspect, and i hope I am wrong, that they have grown apart, as they met and married very young. I think his redundancy threat has made him re-assess his whole life and he is questioning whether he is in the right place with any of it. I hope they find a way though it, and that this is just a blip, but agree that it takes both partners to work on it.

You see I think the Op's husband can't win. If he had an affair he would be a bastard, as it is he is being as honest as he can be before he has the affair. I think SGB's post incredibly extreme based on the OP.

Most people are not perfect. This guy does sound self absorbed but I can't see anywhare in the OP that he is trying to control the OP in any way that is not what many people do in theri lives (women and men) and basedo nthe Op it is certainly not abusive.

I think is is fairly normal thing to happen in some relationships, where one person gets dissatisified, usually because a complicated combination of personality, atatchment style, life expectations, bordeom thereshhold.

OP, please LISTEN to your Dh. He needs to work this out himself and you need to let him. I wouldn't hurt for you to detach slighly. When we love someone we want them to be the best person they can be and at the moment your dh needs to work on that.

You need to let go a bit and really think about what YOU want. At the moment you are having a knee jerk reaction based on the fear that your dh will leave.

You need to listen to the advice about focussing on yourself. Your dh may or may not decide to stay with you but you need to be really brave and stop trying to make him stay.

I was also going to say that at the same time as allowing your dh space you can also be open and honest and tell yout dh you love him and would like him to stay but that you understand that he may decide not to.

The best chance you have of working through this in a way that works for both of you is too keep talking to each other and being honest but also allowing each other space.

It is a hard balancing act but it is possible

PP then I simply don't understand the points you are making. You fiercely object to baring souls? As you know, I don't.

However I do think that within that honesty there is a duty of care about the words used and some empathy about the hurt that the honesty might cause. I have never to my knowledge advocated tactless or unkind honesty. I hope you would agree that there are kinder ways of expressing doubts in a relationship than the OP's H has demonstrated here and as I said upthread, I think that is indicative of the level of detachment felt in this relationship.

Apart from this, I'm not condemning this man for anything, actually. I was trying to advise the OP about ways to deal with that honesty and detachment.

I dont think its commendable that hes been honest , because i dont think hes is being at all honest. A conversation where a partner states that theyre not happy because of a , b and c is a positive thing , it alerts a partner to the fact theres a problem and then they can do something about it.

This isnt whats happened here . He didnt say that a , b and c is bothering him , he didnt mention wanting things to improve and he didnt state what he needed or wanted from this marriage . I wouldnt class that as " opening up " or communicating in any way at all. The op is left in the horrible position of trying to improve things , while not even knowing what needs to be improved.

I dont think any amount of playing pool or golf or reading books is going to fix this , because i think from everything he has said he has already left the relationship and has formed a new one with someone else . If this turns out not be the case i would be very very surprised.

There seem to be some positives in this situation to me. DH says he loves OP (as a friend - could be a phase?) and is willing to go to counselling and seems genuinely upset and maybe cares about the marriage. She has not mentioned unkindness towards her from her DH, although he does sound detached and a bit insensitive.

I say this from experience of something very different. OP's DH has been honest with her. No. She cannot make him fall in love with her but if he still has deep feelings for her, perhaps things can be improved.

My experience was DH telling me he loved me. Behind my back, the opposite was being said - no, not to another woman - to his best friend. Then sometimes, he didn't love me, sometimes he just wasn't sure whether he loved me, sometimes he wasn't sure love even existed full stop. Then, sometimes he would apparently love me again, temporarily, then change to - and the honest bit I realise - no, he did not love me and why is that really important and why can't we just carry on.

WWIFN
no, you get me wrong too.

What I said was that you advocate honesty above everything else, but when a person is honest then you condemn him for being so, or not using the right words.

I think the whole point of the OP was that her DH is confused, so we are all on a hiding to nothing to try to second guess what he might or might not be feeling or doing.

Additionally, I feel a bit irritated when you use terms such as "detachment" and so on, which may be the terms used in counselling, along with projection, transference,etc etc, but unless you are a trained counsellor who has time to help posters on MN, then you should be careful of using such vocabulary. It gives the OPs labels for behaviour which may well not be correct.

This comment is not aimed solely at you but at other posters who say their partner is passive aggressive, Aspergers etc etc- when really they are not qualified to use those terms, they have just picked up a few snippets of info.

PurplePeony I will say this again. I do not advocate honesty "above everything else".

I advocate tactful, kind, empathetic honesty and as Dignified says, a willingness to help with the solution. I am not "condemning" anyone for being honest (if indeed that is what it is) but I do have concerns about how this message was conveyed to the OP.

I note your irritation, but I simply don't agree with you and will carry on posting what I choose.

Here her WWIFN please do post what you choose.

PP you are amazing yesterday you are ranting on about people misreading things and taking things out of context but you quite happily accuse me after my initial post to the op of telling her to pursue an unrealistic fairy tale relationship when I did not do that at all I simply told my story because I felt from her op my story had a similar beginning to hers.

As to you being irritated by terms in counselling on here why did you then post twice some great long screed from The Times written by a counsellor, presumably in your wisdom you have decreed this something that us easily confused MNers can understand.

Just out of interest in what way are your last few posts any help to the op ?