dh doesn't want another child, I do. reallly think this could break us

[silverfrog]

Well, just that really.

I want another child, dh doesn't. We were always going to have 3, and now he has changed his mind.

We have 2 dds, and I love them dearly, but really, really want another. After dd2 was born, we were having a bit of a rough patch, and agreed to postpone trying for number 3. Dd2 will be 4 soon, and dh is now adamant he doesn't want anymore.

I'm not sure I can accept this (although what choice do I have?)

You both really need to see a counsellor to work out all your feelings about what has happened in the past before you go forward with anything.

If he won't go, go on your own.

A third child will not end your unhappiness, IMO, becauase it's not just about having another childn.

Please, please, for your own sake and that of you daughters, make an appointment to see a counsellor on your own and a couples counsellor.

i think there is a very good argument for having a 3rd child when oldest is disabled (like you my oldest is severe LD/ASD). having two dds who can play together etc is fantastic.

they can also be support to each other.

however - you have to bear in mind risk of a third child also having a disability, even a different one. you can never be 100 per cent sure and you have to decide to take that risk.

but with one severe disabled and one typical - the typical one has all the disadvantages of having a sibling and none of the advantages of having a playmate and then sibling support when older.

not saying it always works out that way - but the typical child is much like an only child when the disabled sibling is not able to play/communicate in the same way.

that is the harsh reality.

i think you can present it to your H as the chance of providing your middle child with a typical sibling for play and support.

that has worked out well in my case.... the yonger two benefit so much from having each other, as the oldest - while tolerated and appreciated for his difference - is on another planet (in a nice way). I am extremely lucky. I had also seen similar families at various therpay groups who had expressed a similar view - dont miss out on giving your second child the chance to have a typical sibling.

however SN aware we are - we have to accept that it is not the same as having a sibling you can talk, play and communicate with on a level....

however - a friend in a similar position did go for third child who sadly was born with a severe neurological issue (still undiagnosed even post mortem but unrelated to first child's SN) she died at 13 months.

but - i believe she does not regret taking the chance to provide the middle child with a typical sibling.

thnak you again.

Am still reading, and stil pondering.

yes, I know we need to talk. it won't end well, though. sometimes it seems as thought we ever have to do is talk - honestly, we have got through more issues in the last 10 years than most have in a lifetime. it would be nice to not be in a constant state of "we need to talk"

I don't think I can tell him exactly how I feel about this, without it sounding like some sort of ultimatum (or him taking it that way)

it is one of the very few truly insolubles, isn't it? as someone pointed out earlier, you can't have half a baby, or only have one for a few years.

Shiney, no i didn't think you were haivng a pop. as you say, it is easier on the outside. add in emotions and situational stresses, and it's quite a messy affair.

perfumed - he has explained it, I just don't agree with soem of his reasoning.

and I do think there are other factors at play here, because dd1 is disabled. I think it was CCf who pointed out some of the thought processes behind having a (hopefully) NT sibling - shared experience while young, ally, another person around when they are older and dh nd I aren't around anymore. But I wouldn't be having another child to be a carer, before anyone points that out, and yes I know that things might not turn out that way.

but if we all thoguht like that, we'd never do anything, would we? one always likes to hope for the best.

Can't make this out at all. Are you saying you'd seriously consider breaking up the family you've got for the possibility of having the third child you crave with someone else? Yous say your (and dh's) ideal family size is three, but he already has four children so by my calculation he's already gone one over the odds. You say you feel cheated because he always said he wanted three children, but I think many people change their minds about how many kids they want - especially when you throw things like disability and life-threatening illness into the mix? I also wonder how people would feel if it were the other round - if dh was craving another child and you were saying I've chnaged my mind, two is enough?I think you have to compromise for the sake of the family you have - clearly you can't have half a child, but you're already two thirds of the way to your mysterious "ideal" family. Quit while you're ahead and count your blessings. Your dh's somewhat bizarre approach contraception may see you getting your own way in any case (honestly I'd think you were trolling with this particular point if it wasn't for the fact that other posters seem to know you).

silverfrog - it sounds as if you feel strongly about wanting a third child. There is no easy answer - and sadly it does tend to be a deal breaker for a lot of couples (I've observed this with family members).

If you yearn for another child that's how you feel and you cannot rationalise your feelings away.

I hope that you and your dh will be able to find a solution.

silver
Ds2s ASD changed DH for ever.
He does not bear the brunt of the day to day care in the way that I do . But the role he sees for himself makes DS2s difficulties just as burdensome.
He feels as though he has to provide a huge pot of money for every eventuality.
He worries about our old age and how we will cope
He is desperately sad that he cannot help DS2 more
He fears being old and our other DCs having to support DS2.
He feels old even though he is only 43.
He blames himself
He works harder than anyone should and yet he never feels he does enough
he rarely talks to me about all this sadness because he thinks I am burdened enough.
I only know because I persisted in the face of his content, rattled but coping, facade

Actually we are much better now that a few years ago. But I find out happiness hard won and delicate. i wouldn't fuck with that now after all we have come through

Lillian - thanks , I think.

I am not saying I would break up a perfectly happy family over this. ours is not currently a perfectly happy family. and this is the latest in a long line of issues, most of which have involved me compromising and dh not at all.

I have never said anything about an "ideal" family. and I am well aware dh has 4 children.

we had always agreed we would like 3 together. given that dh is a maths whizz, I think he could probably work out that this means he ends up with 5 overall.

Easy enought o say compromise. that is my point ot this thread.

I am not sure that this is (yet another) compromise I can swallow.

and no, sadly not a troll.

(oh, and the quit while you're ahead and count your blessings doesn't do much for me, tbh. I am well aware of what I have.)

Yes I object to people saying 'count your blessings'

Who has the right to tell someone else how they are entitled to feel about something?

things like disability completely change the "count your blessings" and "ideal family" angle... i thnk op is well aware of how families dont match up to the cornflake box ideal.... if she had two typical children i would also add my voice to the "count your blessings" view...

but - as i said above i think severe SN can make having another child seem more essential for family life.... and for the benefit of the non-SN child.... i am truly thankful that i do have 3 children and it makes dealing with the oldest needs a lot easier when the younger two can play together etc. froim a practical point of view, having two typical siblings plus a disbaled one makes life easier....

Another approach silverfrog is try and talk about it in a more positive way- like say things about how lovely yr dd2 interacts with her peers/ relatives of similar or younger age. Just drop little seeds of suggestion. Building up to talking about the issues cestlavie posts about. That way it won't be like an ultimatum

Can completely empathise with all that you are saying about wanting dc3 and the harsh reality which cestlavie speaks of

electra, pagwatch.

thanks.

bloody hell, it's never easy, is it?

I just see this situation we are in - which has involved my life changing far more than dh's has (partly what we agreed - that I would be sahm, partly not - without ASD I would be on my way back to my pre-children career).

and now dh is making decisions that, lets face it, other than financially (and I am not dismissing this at all, it is of course a worry for him) impact on me more than him.

and he is making them unilaterally.

dh is not getting any younger, of curse he isn't. but it feels a bit much to throw that at me now, when that has always been the case.

even without ASD, dh would be a workaholic. he feels the pressure to succeed far more than he feels the pressure to earn more to make us financially secure forever. we are in a reasonably good place, finance wise. wouldn't turn down a Euromillions win, though .

I agree with cestlavie 100%. Saying things like 'count your blessings' sneering about 'mythical ideal family' and saying 'quite while you're ahead' are all pretty unpleasant in the context of someone having a severely disabled child. Those of us with disabled kids of all kinds (and I don't claim to be in the same position as the OP at all) know all about families not being 'ideal'. It's not bad or wicked to hope for a sibling for your child - one they can play with and interact with.

No, never easy

Me too. I was actually senior to DH in terms of career when we were first together and the change of gear/diection was hard.
I think initially I even felt bitter watching him leave all the chaos behind and escape to work. I know now that that was the only way he could get through it whereas I at least felt 'useful' here.

It is going to be all about your relationship though , so whilst you can get other peoples thoughts it is only really you two that matter.

I wish you all th best. Notthat that is any help and

herjazz - dh agrees it would be great for dd2 to have a sibling to play with. she has just started at pre-school, and he thinks it is lovely that she is now getting some (oh forgive me, please, I really love dd1 very much) "proper" playtime with peers.

dd1 is severely ASD, but we get by ok. in fact she is doing really well. but she is, realistically, little more than an extra puppet for dd2 to order about during games. dd1 will sit and attend one of dd2's tea parties, but she is, quite honeslty, like an improved version of dd2's dolls - she walks, she talks, but real, proper play? uh-huh.

outdoor play is ok, and physical games, for now. but dd2 will soon outstrip dd1.

and yet, in the face of all this he still says no.

He will say he is worried about the impact of me being pregnant (I tend ot be quite ill), and the knock on effect of this.

I sya I coped before, when dd1 was a toodler, really very locked into her own world, battling for services for her, while major building works was done on just about every room in our house, and while dh was having his knee rebuilt (after a skiing jolly form work - such is his dedication to helping me cope with stressful situations, he buggered off to ski and ruptured his ACL, rather than stay behind and battle withthe docs/builders/talk me through the constant hyperemesis. ok I am being harsh- it was a business trip and he was away for 5 days, but this is what I mena. he still does these things (why woudl he not, it's part of his work) whereas I am going out tonight for the 4th time (count them, 4 times) since dd2 was born, with my oldest friend)

it all starts to look like a list of excuses on his part, or that I am dismissing his every argument.

but of course it is not like that in reality. in RL, we are just a family muddling through, getting by as best we can.

silver, from the sound of that post alone, it seems there are some major problems in your marriage and you need to get these sorted out before even thinking of adding another child to the mix.

sorry if that sounds harsh, but this sounds like years of frustration and hurt - very valid - not just about having another child.

please, sort this out.

you deserve to have peace no matter what and it can only be a good thing for yourself and everyone.

:)

In your OP you say "we were always going to have 3, and now he has changed his mind". It comes across to me that you don't seem to accept that life can change, people can change and that people are allowed to change their minds - which is both inflexible and naive of you. Would you have never married him if he said "although I quite like the idea of 3, I reserve the right to change my mind and want 1, 2 or 4 children" instead? If it was you who wanted to stick with 2 children, and he was saying "but you promised me 3" then you would undoubtedly expect our sympathy for that and be telling him that you are entitled to change your mind. You may have both said you wanted 3 DCs, but you didn't even know then whether that would be possible. You still don't know whether a 3rd child would be possible even though you do have 2. It isn't the same as somebody saying they want children and then deciding later they don't - it's about when to stop not whether you ever start, and that is something nobody can predict until you see the family dynamics at the time.

It is also baffling to me that you now feel you have wasted years on him because he has now decided he's happy with just 2 DCs. By implying you've wasted those years with him, it gets close to implying that the time spent having your children was also a waste because there are only 2 of them, whereas if there were 3 then suddenly those years wouldn't be wasted. That's really quite sad :(. Again I could understand you feeling you'd wasted time if he promised to have DCs but then never actually was willing to go ahead, but you have 2 beautiful DDs - so how can that time have been wasted?

This is not to say I don't sympathise with you. I think I could be in a similar position to you in a year or so - possibly wanting DC3 when DH now clearly doesn't even though we had originally talked about 3 - but I would never ever think that my time with him had been wasted because I didn't later get a 3rd DC, as I have DS and DD, and I never ever assumed that the number we talked about before children, and right up until midway through my pregnancy with DD, was ever set in stone because people and circumstances change..

Oh, and I totally agree that your DH is being a complete twat about the whole "no more children" but then using the withdrawal method. I think you need to go back to him and say "if you are the one who doesn't want more children then you bloody well choose a more reliable method of contraception"

Pagwatch your post made me cry ,it could have been written about my dh.Although ds2 's difficulties are minor compared to many and to the outside world all is fine I know that he feels the responsibility greatly ,it has changed him greatly and the older ds2 gets the worse it is because the reality of his life opportuneties and the contrasts with his brothers seem to be more vivid

Having ds3 was a huge leap and it was part of dhs reluctance to have a third,in reality ds3 was a huge gift to ds2 and ds1.To ds2 it meant he had the experience of being the older broher (this is not without difficulty as ds3 has overtaken ds2 in many ways),it gave him the chance to go through some of the developmental stages again,for example ds2 suddenly discovered imaginative play through ds3 ,I do also feel that ds1 although there is an 8 year age difference does have an ally in ds3 ,from an early age he felt the responsibility of ds2 (he doesn't see him only as this but he is a typical oldest child)and having ds3 has lessoned that a bitfor him
and given him a normal sibling relationship.It is so true who ever said that however SN aware you are the relationship is different

expat - we are sorting them

but yes, years of frustration on my part, despite a lot of it being compromises I entered willingly (going abroad with dh meant me being At Home pre-kids - no work permit, etc etc)

I wouldn't change what I have done, but it would be nice to have some acknowledgment of the sacrifices (for want of a better word) form dh.

which is why this has come as such a blow, tbh.

I don't resent dh going on work trips at all.

and when dd1 was younger, it really was easier and less stressful for me to stsy with her than to try to go out (severe anxiety on dd1's part)

we have slowly, slowly been chipping away at it all.

life is on a more even keel.

dh and I have been going out more recently, and don't get me wrong, i have seen plenty of my friends (my best friend is a layabout like me student so free during the day etc)

I am not chained ot the kitchen sink by any means, and we have recently employed a nanny so that I am not run ragged by school runs in opposing directions.

so, I guess partly dh doesn't wan thtis disrupted.

but I think it is him being selfish, not me. it is he who is dictating the situation, not me. and in reality, it is still my life that would be more compromised than his.

but, despite having said all this to him, and talked it through before, he probably will not budge.

The thing is, the method they are currently using IS reliable. There is no pregnancy. Who knows, perhaps the dh worries if it was a pill, there might be an accident, whereas he can feel sure any conception that were to happen in the current circumstances would be his fault alone.

Ah, sorry - I've just read some more of the posts since i started to compose that mammoth one (which i also had to leave part way through to deal with DD) and i realise that i now sound like a complete bitch having a go at you when actually there is more coming out about your DH and also about the impact on your DD2 of the disability your DD1 has.

So I apologise - I didn't mean it to sound as heartless as I think it now comes across. You seemed so wedded to the idea of 3 and so inflexible about it, based on some theoretical discussion you had before you had any DC. People do change their minds on things and you have to at some level accept that, and I was trying to push taht point. But reading more it does sound like actually your DH is giving you completely mixed messages here - withdrawal method and thinking your DD2 needs a sibling, but then refusing a DC3 - so I understand better your confusion and reasons why you kept referring back to the fact that you had originally agreed to 3DCs.

So I'm sorry if I've upset you.

OP, if you split up your family over this, you will turn your children's lives upside down and potentially damage them...do you see the irony of that as you agonise over a third child?

I totally understand your yearning and the feeling of betrayal and I sympathise hugely.

But your husband, like you, has the right to change his mind.

I changed my mind about having dc number 3.I went from 100% wanting another one to 50% to 0% in the space of a year. My dh came round very quickly so I was lucky. But people change, it's not a crime, I think you need to find a way through it.

megonthemoon - thank you

You have my sympathy too Silver - that's one hell of a rug to have had pulled out from beneath you .... whichever way you found out, but to find out in reply to someone else's casual enquiry at a party ... well, IMO, that's pretty callous TBH.

It's all very well a lot of people saying a) be thankful for what you have and b) don't break up a family over a mythical 3rd child, but I wonder how they see your marriage/family going forward ? In your shoes I know I would feel cheated, disappointed, angry (at lack of discussion, & way I was told), and frankly the 2nd class partner in the marriage whose aspirations always came 2nd to my husband's. Sure - it'd be different if he'd never wanted a 3rd child with you .... but he enthused about the idea for several years, and the objections he has can either be overcome without little effect upon him and/or are as a result of his delaying (age thing). Feeling like that .... just how is the marriage supposed to work successfully ? .... because I'd be feeling huge resentment as well as feeling that I'd been led up the garden path and then dumped somewhere very unpleasant without any prior warning.

That is bound to have a negative effect on the marriage .... and whilst not wanting to presume how your mind ticks, I'd inevitably start to wonder if I really knew the man I thought I did at all. It's possible I'd start to feel insecure in other areas .... e.g. having been let down over this, I'd worry about what else I could be let down over if he changes his mind - and whether he'd see fit to discuss - or even tell - me about it ?! I can certainly see why this would have an effect on your sex life too .... going through the motions when you desperately want a baby but with him taking steps to (hopefully, in his view) ensure it doesn't happen. That's be so hurtful. And whilst I can't quote figures, most stats do show that withdrawal is one of the least reliable forms of contraception .... so it's kind of extra poignant that he's doing that and taking quite a risk regarding pregnancy - which he professes not to want. Almost ..... maybe .... as if somewhere deep in his psyche he's decided that if it happens by "accident" that'll be okay ....

Thing is .... if you can't come to terms with not having a 3rd child, I don't blame you for thinking outside the marriage if you're not confident you could remain happy within it - which of course would do your kids no good. Not necessarily so you'd be free to go off and find someone with whom to have your 3rd child .... but so you wouldn't have to live with the daily resentment and acute hurt of living with someone who you feel had let you down so badly. In other words, if you are destined to have "only" 2 children, would you feel "better" about that by being on your own (with the slight possibility it might yet happen) or in a marriage with someone you feel huge resentment towards when it will never happen ?

I agree - tentatively - that counselling may help you come to terms and be able to remain reasonably happily in your marriage ... but there isn't a guarantee, and I don't blame you for feeling the way you do. I guess he can't be blamed as such for his feelings either, because they can change over time ... but I think the way he went about informing you (or not) of this change of heart was appalling .... and if there's this long history of you having to make compromises and sacrifices in his favour then I can see why this might feel like the last straw. It's very sad and I hope you can work out a way forward that makes you happy(ish) .... or at least doesn't make you feel like you've been walked all over.