Calling all prostitutes and former prostitutes on MN, as there seem to be a few around right now...

[Aitch]

I'm curious to know how it makes you feel to see threads on here from wives and girlfriends etc when they discover that their husbands etc have been visiting prostitutes? even if you are happy in your own jobs (and i hope to god you are somehow, because the alternative is intolerable), how does it feel to be confronted with the downside of your work on these pages?

(i think it goes without saying that the men are culpable in this scenario, but am looking for some insight into how your work squares with sisterhood etc).

wubblybubbly - sorry to read of your diagnosis but, you do kinda prove my point.

I fail to understand why people get so upset about what other people do in private - fair enough, if YOUR husband or partner visits a prostitute without your agreement, vent away - but what other people do is surely up to them?

"If a married woman found out her husband was seeing prostitutes then I would hope she would try to examine why, maybe it should end things and maybe it shouldn't."

I think married women would be so disgusted that their husband thought women's bodies were a commodity that the whys and wherefores as to why he did it would be the very last thing on their mind

Barmy, because we do not live in a vacum

Hi Sakura

The men I meet love women and love sex. I am sure that there are men that hate women who use prostitutes and men that hate women that don't.

I accept you might find this hard to accept.

I think women do use their bodies as commodities all the time and increasingly men do too, including to get better jobs and relationships. I am not that hung up about how I look. I really enjoy sex and prefer an honest transaction. I only do this when I am not in a relationship myself and recognise what I do as an unacceptable general lifestyle.

I am sorry it isn't what most people want to hear but I haven't had bad experiences from men and the sex is highly enjoyable.

Leaving aside the emotional and physical betrayal of a husband using a prostitute, no-one seems to have mentioned the financial betrayal.
It's taking family money and using it in secret, which is wrong whether it be paying for sex (in any form), gambling, drinking or anything else that might cost a lot of money ( including shopping on an OCD scale, before the clever-dicks say "but women do it too" ).

Secrecy in marriage is bad, full stop.

I think that people see hookers as the OW, but yuckier as they take cash.

Especially when they say things like.......

"If a married woman found out her husband was seeing prostitutes then I would hope she would try to examine why, maybe it should end things and maybe it shouldn't."

It's like an OW trying to blame the wife for something they choose to do, hookers are not the innocent party, but the men are to blame not the wives.

Malificence, I totally agree on that point. And remembering that an affair takes money away from the wife and is probably more of a long term finanacial threat.

I can understand that my husband could develop feelings for another woman, I could never understand or accept that he could have sex with someone who means nothing to him and even worse, pay for it.

I don't believe for a minute that men who use prostitutes "love" women - they certainly don't love or respect their wives, unless it's in a screwed up madonna/whore type way.

Agree Malificence, they love women, but not in the way most other men do

so yes, it is a mother/matron/madonna - whore complex at the root of it all

No BarmyArmy, it doesn't "kind prove your point" at all.

The reason I posted so much personal detail was to illustrate to you that, despite everything we (as a couple) have been through and what that means to our lives and sex life, I most certainly do not ""fear her attitude for all too obvious domestic reasons..."

I do not fear that my husband will go elsewhere. Whilst you can't ever know anyone completely, I trust him and trust my own judgement. If I'm ever proved wrong, then I'll deal with that at that time, but I certainly do not live in fear of that happening.

My views of prostitution haven't changed from the days when I was the one with the higher libido. It's my tit I've lost, not my mind.

justreading - I think you are right to say that you can't generalise about the reasons why men choose to use prostitutes (horrible expression in itself, but accurate I think, judging by the value for money type reviews you see on Punternet.) We are not just talking about a few individuals - the market for paid for sex is huge, so you would expect there to be disparities.

I think that in my h's case, I'm afraid that he was one of those looking for something 'extra' - as an escape from the domestic hum drum of home life; the tedium of a long-term partner and from the stresses of work.

My comment about mysogny really stems from thinking about the way my h has treated the women in his life. I asked him whether he would want our daughter to be treated in the same the way he has treated me (betrayed; lied to; deceived); the lonely female 35 something colleague he had an affair with (and dumped as soon as I found out), or any of the escorts he had 'used'. And of course he would fight tooth and nail to protect her from that kind of toxic treatment at the hands of a man.

I looked at Punternet (to get an insight into what my h had been doing). After I got over the horror that such a thing existed, I was struck by a several things. First, I was surprised by the anxiety of the majority of the men to give sexual pleasure to the woman. Second, the horrible judgements about 'value for money' and aspects of women's bodies that prove it really is about a woman as a commodity. Third, the generally vanilla-y same-ness of the experience. And fourth, the absolutely sickening references to some girls being 'dead behind the eyes' having clearly been in the business too long.

I understand that many people find it difficult to understand why I stayed with my h after discovering what he has done.

People will tear apart my reasoning, and they are free to do that if they want. All i can really say is that life is very complicated; I am trying to do what I think is best for my family at this moment in time and I think people can change and I want to help my husband to do that. I haven't done it lightly and there has been a cost.

I don't condone prostitution because I think it has a miserable, hollow core and is rooted in exploitation. I wouldn't want my daughter to work as an escort and my mum wouldn't want me to be one either. I think it says it all really.

MrsJellicle (sorry I got your name wrong last time) FWIW I think you are doing the right thing and it is for others to make their own choices.

If there is any insight I can give you, I would like to.

It is true that generally the men are desperate to please you and make you happy. That has been my experience.

Many times men are highly conflicted by what they are doing and you are working that through.

I find myself shaking my head at some of the assumptions that are made by the sex workers on this thread and also some of the commentators.

What a punter tells an escort about his motives for doing it are about as reliable as the motives given to an OW in an affair. Remarkably similar - unhappiness at home, no sex, separate rooms - even widowhood, or no relationship at home. With an escort, there is even less likelihood of the lies being exposed and tbh, I'm puzzled why any punter feels the need to justify himself to the sex worker anyway.

And despite brave posters like Mrs. Jellicle (who after all is in her marriage and can testify with some accuracy that hers was far removed from a sexless marriage) adding their contributions to this thread, her testimony is ignored in favour of the notion that men use sex workers because they aren't having sex.

After all the arguments on this long-running thread, I have seen nothing to dissuade me from my belief that prostitution damages women and that not a single woman benefits from the trade. As long as the high-earning escorts live in a society that values a woman's body over her brain - and when a man's purchase of her, would cause the devastation that Mrs.Jellicle has faced, it damages us all.

WWIFM: Point of information, punters see no need to hide the truth or justify anything to the sex worker as that is the deal they are striking. They may lie to their wives but they don't see a reason to do so when they are paying for sex.

They don't justify themselves, there is talk before, during, after or instead of sex. Or there is not, as the case may be. There is no reason for them not to be truthful as they are not being judged.
There are dads on their own, widowers, divorced men, singles, married happy and married unhappy all out there.

I disagree justreading, there is every reason for them not to be truthful, not even to themselves - it's makes them feel better about what they are doing.

With the real truth would come the reality of what they actually are. (I'm talking about the so-called happily married men here) and to face that isn't pleasant.

I would think that most of all, these men are highly skilled in lying to themselves - how else do they convince themselves that what they are doing isn't harmful?

I am puzzled then, how you come to learn of their reasons for being there, if they feel no need to justify it to you?

And you said downthread that you try your best not to accept clients who are married, but looking for extras. How do you screen them before making that decision? I imagine that if a punter knew that you might say "no" if he was married, there would be huge motivation to lie to you?

M and WWIFN: I don't think they feel they need to lie, I am part of what they are doing so why should they?

Conversation just spills out, things are intimate, chat happens.

I can work out when people are lying, the story doesn't hold together, questions put in different ways get different answers. I get a level of detail that would be very difficult to sustain if it was a lie.

I have some dialogue before a booking. I can't totally screen but I can choose not to see them again. I never say I don't see married men. I just choose who I want to see. I try to find out as much as possible and, if there is something I don't like, I don't see them.

Justreading - just keep telling yourself that because I am sure it is better for you to believe it is so. I'm with Mal on this and have read evidence to support it - I will link it if I can, but I think it is from a psychology journal that I was able to access when I was a student.

'I could never understand or accept that he could have sex with someone who means nothing to him and even worse, pay for it."

Malificence, this is a terrific insight. When a man has sex with a complete stranger it calls into question what sex with his wife meant to him. The fact he may claim it was meaningless is just as reprehensible and just as far-reaching in its implications as an affair, with feelings involved.

'I don't think they feel they need to lie, I am part of what they are doing so why should they?
Conversation just spills out, things are intimate, chat happens.'

Do you honestly believe you are so special to the man who has rented out your vagina that he will honour with the truth about himself or any part of the truth about himself?

You are an assemblage of the right body parts, with a pulse, to the men who pay for your time and whatever effort you put forth. They do not feel there is anything special about prostitutes in general or as individuals.

The use of the terms 'intimate' and 'intimacy' by the WGs is notable. They have come up more than once. I would like to ask those still here what their definition of intimacy is.

What some men who pay for sex have to say about the experience

?Prostitution is like masturbating without having to use your hand.?

?It?s like renting a girlfriend or wife. You get to choose like a catalogue.?

?I feel sorry for these girls but this is what I want.?

?No big deal, it?s just like getting a beer.?

?I like it if it?d be super expensive?she comes in, nothing said and she is instantly very sexual, a sexual creature.?

?My favourite experience in prostitution was when she was totally submissive.?

?I don?t like the ones that make no secret of it being a job. I like customer care. They try to finish quickly but I want to take a little bit of time.?

?I have sex as a means to an end to meet my sexual needs? It?s a financial transaction.?
?I found her on punternet.com and she looked at me with the look of a puppy dog in the Christmas window.?

?Look, men pay for women because he can have whatever and whoever he wants. Lots of men go to prostitutes so they can do things to them that real women would not put up with.

?If you go to the wrong one, you might as well be in a morgue, there?s a slab of flesh there.?

?We?re living in the age of instant coffee, instant food. This is instant sex.?

?Prostitution is a last resort to unfulfilled sexual desires. Rape would be less safe, or if you?re forced to hurt someone or if you?re so frustrated you jack off all day.?

?Prostitution is being able to do what you want without the taxation.?

?It?s no strings attached sex, no bother about buying gifts, it?s a one off financial commitment.?

?It should be legalised over here. This is the way God created us. It is being human. If you don?t have a partner then you have to go to a prostitute.?

?It?s unfulfilling, there?s no reward. It?s empty. It?s terrible. You come out feeling even more empty and unloved. You will likely feel quite empty afterwards, as if you have been used.?

?Prostitution is like being able to masturbate without doing any of the work.?

?You pay for the convenience, a bit like going to a public loo.?

?I hugely recommend it but be sure you know there?s a threshold you?ll be crossing. Prostitution is naturally questionable, whether it?s to yourself or to society.?

Not a whole lot of respect or love for women, whether prostitutes or not, shown in amongst that lot.

wubblybubbly - you don't like the idea of prostitution, so don't partake.

Doesn't mean other shouldn't be free to proffer their services if they wish.

I'm not quite sure where you end up with your disapproval - are you unable to sleep, thinking of the hundreds of pounds some of the very attractive escorts in London are earning every day?

Barmy
"Doesn't mean other shouldn't be free to proffer their services if they wish."

And what if they don't wish? What if they genuinely have no choice? What if they've been trafficked, tricked, co-erced, pimped? Does that keep you awake at night?

Or don't you believe that happens?

Did you read this? It's interesting.

Of course no-one should be coerced into doing anything they don't wish to do - one could say the same about lifting heavy loads, typing up reports, anything at all.

I fail to see what makes prostitution a special case.

Many escorts work in that line of business because of the large sums of money they can earn very quickly.

Well done them.