Thought we were getting back on track - then this!

[Irishchic]

DH and I have been going through some troubles this last couple years. Mostly the usual ups and downs with having a young family and busy lives etc. Our sex life suffered a bit, but lately, in the last couple of weeks I had tried to get things back on track in that department.

We have been getting on much better, and have had sex a few times in the last couple of weeks, and last weekend, I made a big effort, sexy undies, candles, some mild sex toys, to get us in the mood and it really really worked, and we had the best sex we had had in years, I was so pleased, and really hopeful that things were on the up.

Well...tonight we were meeting friends for dinner. We had a quickie yesterday morning and agreed that tonight after we got back from meeting this couple we would spend some more quality time in the bedroom, and we were both looking forward to this.

We were walking to the restaurant chatting, and I asked him to hold my hand, as we havent done this in ages when out. I just felt that we were close, and felt that i could do this. He did hold my hand for a few minutes but then pulled away and said that he would rather not, as he felt uncomfortable with this. (We live in a small town, and he is quite well known in the town as he owns a couple of businesses in the town) and he felt self conscious with this level of public display of affection.

I felt a bit upset about this, and pointed out that we were planning on having sex tonight, and yet he could not even hold my hand in public, (in the dark - 8pm) after 11 years of marriage and 5 kids, I felt that this was a bit, well, horrible to be honest. He replied that if it was something that he was uncomfortable doing then I should not make an issue of it.

But it is not as it I was asking him to snog me in public or anything like that, just to bloody holf my hand. I am really fucking upset about this and needless to say have lost any urge to make love to him tonight as i just feel that if he cannot even do this much for me, then how can I get in the mood for much more intimate stuff later on. I cannot just switch it on once the front door closes behind us. I felt gutted actually, I thought that we were moving on and getting on so much better, emotionally and physically, then this, and he is still making mne feel bad about it. When we got hom, he said that he was sorry that he had spoiled our night but that he justwas not comfortable with this and that I should not be making such a big deal about it.

AM i making a big deal here? Am I asking for too much? It is not as if he is a shy person, he is involved a lot in the local community and has not problems speaking in public. I dont know, just feel totally shit ]about it all now...

Aaaw, sorry it's made you feel so bad.

Tbh, unless the non hand-holding is indicative of a general lack of interest in you then I'd just think it's a strange little quirk he has, no reflection on you whatsoever, just one of those things that doesn't come naturally to him.

Having said that, it's all very well for him to say that he shouldn't have to do something he feels uncomfortable with (and that is true) but it's such a small thing that he could also just get over himself and do it because it makes you happy.

If he really, really cant bear public displays of affection (not that hand-holding is especially showy in most peoples books) then you'll just have to accept it - but don't let it upset you and don't think its a reflection on you, it's not.

Falling - thanks for the quick reply.

I would be of the school of thought that says that he should get over himself because it is not a very overtly public display of affection, but also because it is just something that i need, once in a while, and it is not as if I grab his hand every time we are out, far from it, usually he walks a couple of paces ahead of me, he doesnt even wait for me, and just tells me to hurry up (!) even when we ar ejust heading out to meet friends and I might be struggling in a pair of nice shoes.

He will hold my hand anywhere else except in the town in which we live.

Maybe i should just get over it, but whilst he might find it uncomfortable to do it, I find it really hurtful that he wont, especially when it is on a date night for us, where we are getting out without the kids, and looking forward to some intimacy later on, I just cannot get my head around it and I feel like if he cannot even hold my hand in public, (in the dark) how can he expect me to feel able to do so much else to him once we are in the privacy of the bedroom. To me, intimacy is in the little things..

Oh...well that massively changes my opinion actually - he will hold your hand just not in the town you live!?

No, that's not right at all! I thought he just didn't like holding hands in general.

Sounds utterly bizarre actually. Has this always been the case? I just cant get my head around that, you're his wife! You have children!

I know, thats what really upsets me.

We have five young kids, married 11 years this month (next week actually)!

If we are out for a night out in any other town or city he is happy enough to hold my hand, not much more than that though with the PDA'S but that is ok as I am not one for canoodling in public anyway.

But I actually find it a lot more hurtful that this reluctance only applies in the place where we live, like it it was a generalised awkwardness and applied everywhre it would be easier to take.

I never realised it was such an issue until tonight when I asked him to do it and he subsequently withdrew his hand, and hsaid he felt uncomfortable with that, and even when I said that I found that a bit hurtful he didnt relent but instead told me that I should not make an issue of it.

I know in the greater scheme of things this is not a big deal, but right now, to me, given what we have gone through and how well we are now, (or were) doing, it has really knocked my confidence in me, and us.

This morning he apologised for upsetting me but says that he cannot change the way he feels about hand holding.

Ok that's really weird - the not doing it in your town thing.

If it's about wanting to appear a fine pillar of the local community, ask him how he'd think he'd look to everyone as a divorced man because he didn't think his wife's feelings were particularly important.

Disturbingly, he might prefer that, who knows?

would he be comfortable with his arm round you instead?

I understand your feelings over this - it used to drive me bats that DH would not only not want to hold my hand, but if I forced the issue, he would hold it for a few seconds then wriggle free. Horrible.

In your case however, it is more concerning in some ways that he only has a problem with it in your hometown - is he so immature that he fears his mates sniggering at him for PDAs with his wife?? Or is he worried about someone seeing and telling someone else? What exactly is his discomfort down to? I would seriously want to know why it is so location-dependent.

Sorry, but YABU. I know where he is coming from. He will hold your hand in a strange place because he does not care what strangers think of him, be it good or bad. Whereas in your town where he is known, he wishes to stay neutral, ie not attract attention good or bad, towards the 'personal' him.

I do not like PDA's either, and would not like to hand hold down the high street...if I were inclined to do it anywhere, it would be in a strange place where no one knows me!

Thumbwitch - He is very aware of his "image" in the town, goes to mass etc, probably seen as a "pillar" of the community to an extent.

Yet when in the company of his friends, they all tend to behave like overgrown schoolboys so there would be an element of worrying about his mates seeing him.

Also, despite the pillar of the community thing, he has drunk too much on occasion and made a tit of himself in public, so not THAT worried about his image at times.

When we are out in other towns, he wont reach for my hand instintively, but doesnt mind if I grab his, and wont pull away awkwardly like he did last night.

He didnt always used to be like this. We used to hold hands when we were out at night, early on into our marriage, so it is not as if I know this when I married him, he has changed on that score.

Also, now when we are at home in the evenings, he would not like me to sit beside him on the sofa, prefering that we have our own chairs, very conscious of his own space, and the need for his space not to be invaded, almost OCD to an extent, same in the bedroom, wont ever cuddle me in bed unless we have just had sex, and then does it under sufferance, and really wants to be over on his own side of the bed to fall asleep.

All of this I can live with. I wish it were different, but have come to accept it. The handholding thing last night though was just one step too far for me, I just began to think, Hang on a sec here, this isnt normal is it?

Or is it?

I think he simply felt uncomfortable behaving like a lovestruck teenager.

I may be old and cynical, having been married for 11 years myself, I cannot for the life of me see that handholding in public is the least bit intimate for a grown up couple.

If my dh and I are dressed up and going out to eat, we may link arms, but hold hands?

It is not romantic, it is daft. I am a woman, and I would not hold my husbands hand while out. It has no bearing on our love, or sex life, or how I feel about him. It just makes me feel really silly.

Try hold his arm instead. There is something a lot more grown up and decent about that. (and possibly rather elderly, but there you go. )

QS - I know what you mean, and I would be delighted if he let me do that, but he wont do that either, he finds it even more uncomfortable to do than the handholding, he just wants to stride on ahead, and is constantly chivvying me along because I cant keep up with him, I've tried to link arms but he just didnt like it.

He must be a lost cause. But do tell him to slow down, as it looks odd with him striding along ahead of you while you stumble after trying to keep up. At least he might slow down a bit.

Try not to let it upset you, as I am sure it has nothing to do with how he feels about you, but more to do with how he perceives himself.....

I suppose you are right.

It is hard though. We hardly touch as it is, except when we are having sex, and I need little things like that to get in the mood. I just feel disconnected from him otherwise.

How can I feel in the mood for sex with him if he cannot even hold my hand or walk alongside me??

oh QS - you old cynic you! I like holding DH's hand, he holds mine now, it was only in the earlier days that he had ishoos with it. I don't like him putting his arm round my shoulders/waist because it throws my back out of line (yes it is that feeble) but linking arms is ok.

I don't at all like the OP's DH's thing of striding ahead and chivvying - that isn't loving coupledom at all.

I dont like that he is striding ahead either...

That does look odd. It looks like he is running away from his wife. Or that he is really hungry.

I like to simply stroll slowly alongside my husband. Especially if our shoulders touch. That is romantic, so I am not that old and cynical....

- sorry, am only at QS's last statement, nothing else.

my partner wont go down town with me yet antwhere else hes fine holds hands kisses all normal stuff but local he wont I know why

Sorry Nikita, having read a few of your threads now, all featuring issues about his lack of intimacy, I think this problem needs addressing. You might want to give a bit of a back story though about how bad this has been, so that you get more relevant posts.

For some reason best known to him, it occurs to me he has huge difficulty treating you as a romantic partner in his life. If I were looking for root causes, I would investigate the effects of sexism and religion.

The effect however seems to be treating you as though your feelings don't matter, whether he is ignoring your sexual needs, behaving like an arse when he's "on the tear" with the lads (I bet your eyes would water if you heard some of the conversations about women there), rebuking you for wanting a perfectly normal gesture of affection and not connecting with you emotionally when you have sex.

I wonder what he thinks women are for in life, in terms of their purpose? What do you think he'd say?

Thumbwitch - How did you get your DH to get over his hand holding ishoos?

I hate the fact that he strides ahead. Also if we have to cross over a road and he is a couple of paces ahead he just heads on across leaving me behind on the other side maybe having to wait till a car has passed.

Now that our relationship has got on to a better footing and I am inititating lots of sex and trying to get us to feel closer, these things are really starting to upset me as I feel it is not normal in a loving partnership.

My DH is not comfortble holding hands in public either, or any PDA actually. He does not like drawing attention to himself, as he sees it. It has no reflection on me, or how much he loves me.

I think you need to accept it, and cut your DH some slack.

Imagine if he was trying to pressure you into doing something you felt uncomfortable with (bum sex, or weird role play or something)! You need to accept that we're all different, and holding hands is not his thing.

WWIFN - Thanks for responding, I have read your advice on other threads and you always get to the heart of the matter so well, I value your advice.

Mt husband was brought up in a strictly catholic household, with 3 brothers and no sisters, and a mother who was very deferential to mh dh's father. They were, and still are very undemonstrative as a family, although FIL has mellowed over the years and dotes on our children, with his own sons they never hug or anything, just a stiff handshake when they meet up, even after a long time - I find that bizarre.

When dh met me he loved the fact that I was articulate, well read and with a good job as a lawyer, he liked the fact that I had opinions and could stand up for myself. However, over the years, he now find this a problem, he does not like it when I dont go along with what he wants, that makes him sound really controlling, but I dont think he means that, its just that his mother never challenged her father, let him make all the decisions and deferred to him completely, and I think he cant understand why I cannot be like this.

His abuse of alcohol has been a huge issue for us at times over the years but he has really taken himself in hand, and wised up a good bit, and now he goes out once a week with his golfing buddies for a few pints, and by and large he is home at a reasonable hour and in good shape.

We started counselling at end of august, had once alone session each, then nothing for 3 weeks as our counsellor was on holiday, so tomorrow we are back to see her together, and ironcially this time yesterday I would have been looking forward to telling the counsellor that we were doing quite well and that I was very optimistic, but today I feel totally different, as I am looking at last nights incident and I see it as being a small but quite significant indicator of how "together" we really are, despite the good sex of last weekend, we still really have no togetherness or intimacy worth speaking of.

Nikita - it was more a part of our evolving relationship - as we got closer, he minded less - plus I told him how it made me feel and how crappy it was.
If we are going to the shops he might still do what your DH does in terms of crossing the road ahead of me, but if we were out on a night out, no way.

I think your DH has problems, as WWIFN has suggested, that you need to address. It looks almost like he doesn't want to be seen as being part of a couple with you - how shit is that. Challenge him on it - tell him how it makes you feel - see if he cares enough to do something about it.

Iwasyoung - I really dont think that hand holding or linking arms is anywhere near bum sex on the scale of intimacy.

As for not wanting to draw attention to himself, this is a man who is on the local Chamber of Commerce and a very vocal and outspoken member of that, and several other local committees, was the youngest ever captain of the gold club, and has considered running for the local council, and has been approached to run in elections for the NI Assembly, so he is not shrinking violet who does not like the spotlight!