Thought we were getting back on track - then this!

[Irishchic]

DH and I have been going through some troubles this last couple years. Mostly the usual ups and downs with having a young family and busy lives etc. Our sex life suffered a bit, but lately, in the last couple of weeks I had tried to get things back on track in that department.

We have been getting on much better, and have had sex a few times in the last couple of weeks, and last weekend, I made a big effort, sexy undies, candles, some mild sex toys, to get us in the mood and it really really worked, and we had the best sex we had had in years, I was so pleased, and really hopeful that things were on the up.

Well...tonight we were meeting friends for dinner. We had a quickie yesterday morning and agreed that tonight after we got back from meeting this couple we would spend some more quality time in the bedroom, and we were both looking forward to this.

We were walking to the restaurant chatting, and I asked him to hold my hand, as we havent done this in ages when out. I just felt that we were close, and felt that i could do this. He did hold my hand for a few minutes but then pulled away and said that he would rather not, as he felt uncomfortable with this. (We live in a small town, and he is quite well known in the town as he owns a couple of businesses in the town) and he felt self conscious with this level of public display of affection.

I felt a bit upset about this, and pointed out that we were planning on having sex tonight, and yet he could not even hold my hand in public, (in the dark - 8pm) after 11 years of marriage and 5 kids, I felt that this was a bit, well, horrible to be honest. He replied that if it was something that he was uncomfortable doing then I should not make an issue of it.

But it is not as it I was asking him to snog me in public or anything like that, just to bloody holf my hand. I am really fucking upset about this and needless to say have lost any urge to make love to him tonight as i just feel that if he cannot even do this much for me, then how can I get in the mood for much more intimate stuff later on. I cannot just switch it on once the front door closes behind us. I felt gutted actually, I thought that we were moving on and getting on so much better, emotionally and physically, then this, and he is still making mne feel bad about it. When we got hom, he said that he was sorry that he had spoiled our night but that he justwas not comfortable with this and that I should not be making such a big deal about it.

AM i making a big deal here? Am I asking for too much? It is not as if he is a shy person, he is involved a lot in the local community and has not problems speaking in public. I dont know, just feel totally shit ]about it all now...

I am not surprised

Is he normally such a drama queen ?

Such OTT pronouncements !!

He sounds like a big baby, tbh

Lol Anyfucker, yeah he is normally like that, he takes himself awfully seriously.

We had a god-awful evening whereby he eventually admitted that he fucked up, but that he felt we were not yet sufficiently strong in our relationship for him to feel comfirtable with me taking his hand when we are out ,esp when he would not normally do this anyway being the undemonstrative type.

I found it strange and very hurtful that he was ok to shag me over the last couple of weeks, and yet felt that holding my hand was beyond him.

What the counsellor will make of this is anyones guess, but I know what I think of it and i think that it is horseshit if you will pardon my french!

christ almighty, he is irritating me beyond belief and I don't even know him

sorry, but I feel your pain x

I did mention earlier that the reson my other half is uncomfortable locally is that he had an affair locally for eighteen months obviously I know about it and it was a while ago now but still he struggles with town as this is where she works also the local Tescos how is yours in the supermarket.

We had our counselling session today.

Jesus Wept - You go in to counselling thinking you have 2 or 3 problems, you leave an hour later realising you have 25 problems!!

It was very painful, but at least the Counsellor did gently point out th dh that his behaviour around the hand holding was unfortunate given where we are at the moment, in terms of getting things back on track, and that it was at least, thoughtless of him.

He agreed. And told counsellor he had apologised for this, but then went on to list all the other things that have been bugging and frustrating him at the moment in our relationship.

And there I was thinking we were doing so well.

Then he said that the last 2 or 3 weeks had been good, but that the months prior to that not good, and he pulled a bunch of paper out of his pocket and started to quote to the counsellor things which I shouted at him in anger when we were having a big ding dong one night. He never of course told the counsellor the awful things he said that prompted my heated response, (he realises this was wrong and said to me later that we would tell my side of it next week) and so I found the whole session far from satisfactory because, it just brought it homoe to me, that no matter how hard I am trying, all it takes is one blip, and he's pulled the rug out from beneath me, and I realise that there is all this resentment bubbling away under the surface with him, stored grudges etc.

Have got to the stage when I cant be bothered trying any more, and I am just going to do my own thing, look after the kids, see my friends, follow my own interests and pretty much live my own life, but under the same roof as him.

I know that sounds very bleak, and maybe I will change my mind, or doubtless things will improve for a while and I will think that we are happy, but sure as night folows day, this will happen again, some silly fight will set off a whole pile of shite and strife and I will be left reeling.

So, I am just going to suit myself from now on. I am not going to try and second guess him, not going to try and be his friend or lover, or make him happy, because I have tried to do that and it is very clear that I do not and can not make him happy, he is incapable of happiness.

Sorry for the rant, am all upset, am a bit all over the place, but I am ok, and I will be ok.

that does sound bleak

don't you think you deserve someone to love you ? (other than the dc...that goes without saying)

I am beginning to think the counselling sessions (to him) are just convenient opportunities for him to beat you with a big stick

I am surprised the counsellor allowed him to read out from a list of so-called verbal rants made by you

I think it strengthens the argument that counselling is a complete waste of time where there is abuse, even if it is of a subtle emotional/verbal nature or where one partner feels he/she is perfectly entitled to act the way they do

the counsellor (if a bit bamboozled/inexperienced) just ends up being a witness to the verbal jousting of the dominant partner

are you getting anything out of it ? Would you consider dropping the joint sessions and getting individual counselling ? I think that might be more appropriate here, tbh

"Have got to the stage when I cant be bothered trying any more, and I am just going to do my own thing, look after the kids, see my friends, follow my own interests and pretty much live my own life, but under the same roof as him.

I know that sounds very bleak, and maybe I will change my mind, or doubtless things will improve for a while and I will think that we are happy"

Nikita, you might just find if you do this that you will gradually detach yourself emotionally and get to a stage where you have no feelings left for him.

The counselling session sounded horrible - he seems to think that the counsellor is just there to hear about how awful you are! Can't believe he took a list with him!

I would agree that individual counselling might be more beneficial for you.

Thanks AF, yes I am actually going to do that, starting with next week, i plan to go along on my own, and not let dh join me, until I feel that I have made some headway on my own and am clear in my thoughts.

Dh read out from his written notes just at the end of the session so there was no real time for either me or the counsellor to call him on it, though I do think that she should have said something, however brief.

Not to worry, I will redress that balance next week, and i think it will be much more helpful for me to see this lady on my own, as, certainly at the moment, I find that the joint session takes way too much out of me.

Thanks for the support.

Thanks Malinkey, just caught your post now.

Yes single sessions for me for the time being.

It was god-awful today, I do think that the counsellor just let him rant on a bit, and never challenged him on a lot of his assertions, that is frustrating, but I have no experience with other counsellors so I dont know if that is just the way they work, no judgements, no taking sides, maybe..

Anyway, next week will be easier thankfully.

hey, you're worth it

By the way, I didn't mean the detaching yourself emotionally as a criticism in case it came across that way!

I'm talking from personal experience - in my case I found that after a while of living like you suggested above there was no relationship left and I became more objective about my husband's behaviour. Before I got to this stage I couldn't see a way out of the relationship or believe that I could actually leave just because I was unhappy. But when I reached this stage I couldn't see any way that I could stay.

Good luck with your counselling.

Sounds like my DH - never mind PDA there are no DA in our relationship at all! Kills me as I am very affectionate and equate hugs/kisses with being loved. Every few months I tend to have an outburst and have a shout/cry and he is affectionate for maybe 2/3 days then back to normal. His family are quite disfuctional and while his mother is very huggy, his father was not although surprisingly he was to me (then again I made a point of giving his father a hug everytime we left their house).
Last outburst was in public at DB's house when collecting DS(supposedly romantic weekend away did not turn out as hoped) - DB and SIL very understanding about it and turned out SIL in 6 year relationship with similar type before marrying DB. She advised counselling and have first appointment next Tuesday. DH thinks problem all in my head and just doesn't understand. We are together 10 years and first 2 were great then he changed and became distant romantically. We have 5yr old DS and DC on way. Don't want to divorce as love him and know he loves me but we need to become close again. That said, if won lottery would split money 50/50 and get own place with DCs .
P.S. DH also walks on ahead of me even now when 29wks preg and waddling/constantly out of breath. Tried to grab his hand a few weeks ago and he let go immediately saying "your hands are so rough compared to DS". Didn't know whether to cry or beat living daylights out of him .

Sorry Nikita09, didn't read last page til now. Flipping hell, what a crap thing to do to you at the end of counselling. But on flip side maybe it's good that these things are coming out now and not being stored up for later when no counsellor around to referee. Knowing what both of you think is wrong with your relationship may help you make a decision whether to stay together or not. However I am sure it does not feel like good thing at moment and you must be hurting. Individual session sounds like good idea as you can explain exactly how you are feeling without worrying what your husband thinks. I hope that things get better for you and make sure you take care of yourself.

Sounds like he's worried about what his mates think. Lads don't do pda. What an arse though. I hate it when men don't hold hands. It's a nice, normal thing to do.

Malinkey - I know what you mean. I presume you did split up then?

Ifitsnotanarse (great name btw!) Yes I felt absolutely gutted when I came out of the session.

Dh rang me today from Dublin where he is away with work (he went there after the counselling session) he wanted to check that I was ok, and didnt want me to think that he was storing grudges the whole time and thinking ill of me..

I said, well how else can i feel given how that session went?

Your first post made me laugh though, not at you but with you, because that is JUST the way my dh is, and he is genuinely nonplussed by my need or want for physical affection outside of the bedroom, he doesnt need it therefore he cannot understand why I need it.

And his father is exactly the same. They never hug, never ever, I have never seen him hug his brothers when they come home from abroad, and I could count on one hand how often I have seen him hug his mum.

Bizarre, utterly bizarre, I really think that is just plain sad, and it has left its mark on him.

PoshSingleMum - I know, and it bugs the shit out of me when I am made to feel "needy" for wanting it.

I'm in the process of splitting up. Not an ideal situation as we are still living together (in separate bedrooms) as we need to sell up and we're having building work done as our flat was in a bit of a state and would have been hard to sell. He refuses to move out and go and stay somewhere else and has been unreasonable at times.

But I'm counting down the days until I'm renting a place with DS and am looking forward to the future and I know that it is the right decision. I have been to counselling on my own - only 6 sessions as they were free through work - but they have helped me begin to see why I put up with an unhappy relationship for so long and begin to think about how to build on my self-esteem.

Sorry, got a bit long!

No, not at all, I am interested in your story, becuase I suppose I am at that point now in my marriage where i often question whether or not I want to be in my marriage.

I think that counselling with my dh has not worked to date, because I have held out the hope that it would change him, and that was unrealistic, I can only change myself, and how I react to things, and work on my own self esteem, and that is what I intend to do.

I dont know where that will lead me though. For you, it led to your breaking up, and I wonder if it will be the same for me...

My dh makes it very hard, almost impossible really, to love him, becuase he can be so bloody difficult at times and spurns intimacy.

I need to get the counselling for myself to work out if I can live with this, and if so, how??

I hope you dont think I am being nosy, I suppose I am just interested to hear from other people how they arrived at their decisions to stay or go.

Not nosey at all - I just didn't want to bang on about me on your thread!

Reading about other people's experiences on here and what is/isn't regarded as normal has really helped me. I originally came here because I was unhappy with my lack of sex life and was trying to find a way of sorting that out but I slowly realised that there were so many other things wrong in my relationship that I could no longer see why I was still here. After that I could see things for how they really are not for how they would be if only I could make it better. If it wasn't for MN I'd probably still be banging my head against a brick wall wondering what else I could do to fix things.

I think if your perception changes and/or the way you behave in the relationship changes you may get to a point where there is only one decision left.

Ok Malinkey, I am a bit like that too, in that I started to post on Relationships a lot to try and find out answers to the problems in our relationship.

TBH I sometimes think reading about peoples experiences on here has been more helpful than counselling, or maybe it is just that counselling hasnt worked for me/us...yet.

There is certainly a wealth of experience and advice on here and I sometimes dont know what I would do without it!!

I also have found reading about other people's relationship helpful. I also came across this book "The Five Love Languages" which sounded corny but was actually a bit of an eye opener when I read it. Basically people equate love in one of five ways: words of affirmation; quality time; receiving gifts; acts of service; and physical touch. I'm definitely physical touch with a bit of quality time thrown in while my DH is acts of service i.e. he equates my love for him by having his clothes ironed, the house clean and the dinner on the table. Please don't all shout at once cause it actually makes sense . This is what he does in the house if I'm working late or visiting my mother (the man never stops washing clothes!) becasuse it's important to him (he's showing me what he'd like from me). Whereas I'm always trying to hug, kiss and basically touch him up to the point where i could be done for GBH because that's what I want from him. And I hate housework but have being trying to keep up with it since I read the book and you know what it has been working, kind of. Actually, he kissed me goodnight last night and on the way to work this morning - nearly fainted with surprise. Also think he's missing me from our bed - I'm sleeping in spare room as much better matteress (bump v. uncomfortable at mo) and new matteress for our bed doesn't arrive for another 2wks. That said I asked him to read the book and the fecker still hasn't - book on 18th century landscaping much more important . Will have to kick him up arse as counselling starts next Tues!

Sorry for rambling but it might be worthwhile reading the book. It's quite "american" if you know what I mean, and there are occasional references to what Jesus did and what Bible says about loving others but if an atheist like me can manage it that's saying something. If you get it and can get your husband to read it please let me know how !

I really want this to work and am so angry with myself for letting it go on for so long and not dealing with the problem 8 years ago as it has created other problems in our relationship. When I feel unloved it makes me so unhappy that I can't function properly and it affects my work to the point that I'm completely distracted whereas he's the opposite and burys his head in work when unhappy. Also like most people these days, we have finacial difficulties (made redundant, got year contract, now ended, nobody employ me as preg but still trying to get work as external consultant, yadda, yadda, yadda) and can't seem to sort them out and get us back on track. Sometimes I just feel like hitting my head off the wall but then I'd have to repaint . Acutally, we're nearly six years in our house and still haven't decorated it properly - living with someone elses decor is not good for your health!

Better stop now. Give everyone some breathing space from my ranting.

Link to book below:
www.amazon.co.uk/Five-Love-Languages-Commitment-Relationships/dp/1881273156/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1285145740&sr=1-1

BTW Nikita09, good that he phoned you. At least he's thinking about how you're feeling at the mo. Sometimes I think its easier for men to be caring when their away from you - my DH will tell me he loves me and misses me when he's away in England but not when he's standing beside me (well I guess he doesn't miss me then!).

May I ask how he is with your DCs, in that is he affectionate with them? At the begining I had to push my DH really hard to ensure that he hugged and kissed our son, who is very like me - loves hugs n kisses and always giving them out (thank goodness). And he's brilliant with him, v affectionate but could spend more time playing with him, but I know that's tiredness on DH's part and his misplaced emphasis on work being most important.
If your husband is good with your DCs then would not think him a complete heartless bastard but just not understanding your needs to the point of imbecility (just like mine ). If you have managed to ensure that he's more affectionate to your DCs than his father was to him, well that's a start!

Ifitsnotanarse - That is spot on, about how he is with the kids. He is definitely more physically affectionate with them than his father would have been with him, although he is overly stern at times, and doesnot play with them much, but he is trying, it just doesnt come naturally to him.

I will definitely seek out that book. I am the self help book queen, having read quite a few now since we ran into problems, (not sure how much difference they have made but anyway )

What do you hope to get out the counselling ? Do you think it will make your dh be more physical towards you? I would like it if my dh was, but whilst he can try to up it a bit, it is never going to come naturally to him and I feel I just have to learn to live with less than I would like. He is not a bad person though, he is much quicker than me to pick up a phone after a row and check if I am ok, whereas I would never do that to him, preferring to sulk first!

You have a very good, and positive attitude towards things, you sound quite wise, and I am sure the counselling can only be of benefit to you, your words have certainly helped me anyway, and also cheered me up!