Last night DH told me that he is fed up with his job, family life, everything

[cornishblue]

And it wasn't the first time. He has been saying this on and off for years, in between periods of normality.

He is moody, he shouts and the children for the most petty things and sulks regularly. But sometimes he can "put it all to one side" and behave like a good, loving husband and father.

He says he's not about to leave. Part of me wishes he would just go and sort himself out, because I cannot carry on with him like this. But the rest of me is terrified.

Medication worked for my DH cb. It took time and several different sorts, and he's on it long term, but oh it was so worth it.

He has the odd bad day now, but thats all. Other than that, he is absolutely fine. His was really bad (suicidal thoughts etc) but as I said, he is out the other side these days and has been for several years.

What is happening to you is so familiar. Its so bloody exhausting isnt it. You worry about everything you say and do, not wanting to upset them. Sometimes the dislike is so intense too, but in there somewhere is still the odd glimpse of the person you love; guess thats what makes us stick around eh?

If he will get help, there is hope

Tell him to go live in Pakistan, see how "depressed" that makes him feel. Bloody western invention.

Cornish, you may be right that the drinking was caused by him feeling depressed but it will feed that depression, and his anger, and his mood swings. Take away the drink and he will start to overcome his problems. Alcoholism affects a person's mental health and he cannot address his problems if he is drinking.

And living with a problem drinker is deeply unsettling for the dc. Deeply.

I know that you are worried for your dc if their dad leaves. I once read about a picture of a child being taken away from its abusive mother; the child is screaming for its mum with its arms outstretched to her, even though she was hurting the child. Children tend to want to cling to what is familiar but that doesn't make it right for them to do that. I know your dh isn't like the mum in the picture, but I can tell you that my biggest hang-ups as an adult have come from the cruel things that adults said to me when I was little.

I agree 100% with Gladys, this is not your responsibility. You are responsible for yourself and your dc and right now your priority needs to be making your lives work, not wasting time trying to make someone else's work for them.

It is really helpful to hear it from a sufferer, DameGladys.

He said precisely what you say about needing to hit rock bottom before he can sort himself out. You are right about the rest too. But actually giving him the ok to walk out of here and into a pokey flat, alone, would be horrific.

And he does respond to the call of duty. Last night DD had a wobble about school and he was great - he offered to go with her on the bus this morning, then walked her right to the gate this morning and will meet her out of school later. He wouldn't have the opportunity to do that sort of thing if he wasn't here, and without that I am scared he will lose sight of what a father is supposed to be

Agree entirely with spiritmum that its not your responsibility. But for me, I knew I wanted to be with my husband IF he could make every effort and so become well again. And he needed my support to take steps to get the help. Each situation is individual of course, but for me, encouraging him and supporting him to get help wasnt a waste of time in the end, quite the opposite.

Only you can know how much more (if anything) you want to put into this relationship and of course how much of a negative impact the situation is having on your family. If your DH wont get help, then any future together would be a very difficult (impossible?) one surely

I do want to be with him follyfoot, and I don't want to see him ruin his life. So did your DH go to the doctor's on his own? What did you do right, and wrong?

Cornish, letting him go might be the only way for him to come back to you all as the husband and father he is meant to be.

You can't do this, you really can't. It can only be up to him.

I feel so badly for all of you, including dh. If he's tried things before that haven't worked it's understandable that he thinks trying anything else is a waste of time.

I have been through something similar to you and I have found The Work of Byron Katie really helpful for getting my head clear in relationships, issues such as the ones you face, and in particular sorting what falls to me to change and what I can't do anything about. Her website is here and I can honestly say that listening to her audios and reading her books (in particular Loving What Is) has changed my life. Honestly, check her out.

It really really depends on what your DH's pluses are. You're obviously suffering a lot with his behaviour... but only you can say if there's a lot of other good points that make it worth hanging on to the relationship & trying to find a way forward.

I do agree that his depression / other problems are ultimately his responsibility.

But I'm fairly optimistic that there are things you could do / not do in order to perhaps help the situation. Would you consider going to counselling yourself, so that you can clarify what it is you want out of the situation? It's always counterproductive to try & change another person, and if your only other option is separation (and I really get annoyed with so many people on MN crying out 'throw him out!!' with almost every post) couldn't you try seeing a counsellor so that things become clearer for you?

Absolutely, Follyfoot, once someone makes the decision to seek help then you can choose to support them, and although hard it is also wonderful.

Cornish, I can tell you something of what I did. I made his problem my problem. I said, 'I've realised that I can't live with you when you do xxxx. If you carry on doing xxxx then I will leave. I love you and will always be here for you but xxxx has to change.'

I know your dh says he wants out so maybe this is different. OTOH maybe him realising that you are going to take matters into your own hands rather than waiting around for him to act might just shake him up, even if he does move out for a while.

And don't worry, he will not lose sight of what makes a father - if anything he will feel it even more acutely.

Spiritmum, on the other hand, identifying ONE person in the family as THE problem is sometimes counterproductive too. There are (perhaps) things that CornishBlue can do, insight she can gain, to help things along...

Absolutely, Maria, I totally agree with you that Cornish can do things to gain insight. As I said in my last post, I made his problem my problem. A lot of what I needed to do was stop judging, stop thinking that he 'should' do this when actually nobody 'should' do anything unless they do it, stop comparing my life to other people's, and also get back my own self-worth.

That's why I linked to the site above. I really did own my part in what I though were entirely his problems. But I could only change my part of them, not his, IYSWIM.

Hm, the whisky/flat/hit rock bottom thing sounds very like he wants to wallow in his depression.

Do you really think it is appropriate for you to think that he can only leave you and go and live in a flat if you give the ok?

Can you see how much responsiblity you are taking for him here?

How do you feel about saying to him, it is his choice to do what he wants to do, but he does have a financial responsibility to support his family, so you will expect x,y and z to be done?

What did I do right and wrong? Hmmm probably loads wrong and not much right

Wrong: Shouted, sobbed, threatened, told him to f**k off and die (not my finest moment haha), etc ad infinitum

Right: said I would be there for him IF IF IF he would get treatment

I didnt go to the doc with him. He was very ashamed of his illness and discussing the dark thoughts he was having in front of me would have been awful for him. That said, it was made very clear that a future together would only be possible if he sought professional help. For me, there had to be something positive to hope for - that he would seek help and it would work. It took time and a lot of suffering for everyone before the appointment with the doc was made, but once he had done that, and was on treatment, things started to look up. Albeit very slowly.

spiritmum thank you for the recommendation, I will have a look.

Maria, I am thinking about seeing a counsellor myself, my GP has some names so I'll go and see him. We agreed last night that our relationship has been crumbling for some time and we both take a share responsibility for that aspect of things.

He may well be depressed, but of course treatment for that isn't an option unless/until he will go to the GP. And the slog of working, family life, running a house is exhausting - for loads and loads of people - some step up to it more easily than others do (that's not a snide comment just a fact) - at the moment with two small DC, my DP finds it harder than I do and tends to depression, I know, though we're both very busy and tired.

However. Depression, feeling like shit etc is not an excuse for bullying/cruel behaviour or sulking (beyond the odd 20-minute grump I mean) and I think you need to address that. He has responsibilities to his family and they are to be a decent human being, a supportive and consistent parent and reasonably behaved, as a baseline. I think you need to talk to him about a) what his problems are and how to deal with them and b) a baseline of behaviour that should be expected, however he is feeling. Taking it out on you and the DC is simply not on and if he can't adhere to that then maybe you should look at splitting up, possibly temporarily. That would be my take on it. He cannot be allowed to think that feeling unhappy excuses nastiness. It doesn't.

Incidentally Shrek 4 is about this very issue - take him to see it. (I'm not joking)

Isitme - the thing is he won't go because he feels guilty about abandoning his responsibilities to his family. The only way he would go is if I said I actively wanted him to, ie if the advantages of him going outweigh the advantages of him staying. And at the moment I don't think they do.

And I am sure that he does want to wallow, which can't be a good thing surely?

BUT perhaps I should say what you suggest and see what he really, actually does.

Fio - don't know about occupational counselling. I'm not sure he'd go for that but it is a good idea, I will ask him and he will have to decide whether to try it or not (look - I'm not taking responsibility here!)

folly - thank you, that is very helpful.

The timing of this is AWFUL. One child starting a new school, another needing support and stability to improve on last year and little one who just needs his Daddy

My ex was depressed all thru our marriage, no matter what I did.
He was on antidepressants, but took no responsibility for his moods and behaviour.

It was so hard for me, pretending to the kids that everything was OK, not being valued for all support I have given him and so on.

In my ex's case it was almost like chronic state of feeling sorry for himself.
Heard the term used - learned behaviour, which in his case is/was letting others to feel sorry for himself as if that was enough for him to wallow and be excused from actually adressing his issues.

Apart from the actual medical cases we are responsible for our behaviour and mostly moods we are in. That's why councelling works, mild medication does too.

I said to my ex on few occasions, that he would not treat his workmates as he treated me. So I see no excuse for his behaviour.
Also at the beginning of our relationship I told him that if he turned an alcoholic I would kick him out.

I think if your DH wants to make soem progress tell him to concentrate on improving relationship with his kids, even though yo uaren't going int odetails I am almost sure is not good.
He has to find time to go during weekend and spend time 1-2-1 wit heach of them.
Thatis his duty and doing stuff would give him something to enjoy and focus on.

As for foul moods - don't tolerate it.

Separation under the same roof gives people breathing space. Please consider it. It's not about splitting, is about evaluating what matters.

In case you decide to go on your own - he already shown he's hoing to support you. If being alone and feeling sorry for himself is what he want's - so be it.

I haven't been able to read through the whole thread but it does sound as though he could be depressed.

This is a bit simplistic, but does he exercise at all? My husband and I both find it essential to our mental health. I have started running again and it has done me the world of good.

Also, you can do humanitarian missions - volunteering in orphanages, digging wells etc - as part of a summer holiday. You could take the whole family. Just put it in to google - there are loads of options. You could combine it with a family holiday and some time to himself (ie: he goes for two months and you join him for one of those).

Cornish, this knob is feeling sorry for himself and forgetting that YOU are a person too. It's all down to you having to look after him becauase he won't go to the doctor or seek any help, boohoo, looking after him is your job.
IT IS NOT YOUR JOB. He is an adult. His behaviour is distressing (and harming) his children and doing you no good either. Tell him you are not willing to live like this indefinitely and he either goes to the doctor or he moves out.
YOu will manage fine without him. You're carrying him already - the load will be lighter without him whining in the corner all day and all night.

This is a horrible thread.

Depression is an illness, an illness that makes it hard for anyone, but especially, men (research based assertion) to seeks help.

This does NOT excuse him being like this for years on and off, but it may explain it.

www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfoforall/problems/depression/mendepression.aspx provides an excellent summary.

Helping him, caring for him does not equate taking responsibility for him. Give him a break. He has begun a very difficult process by admitting that he might be depressed and that his family may be better off without him. Give him a little time to consider that and then maybe show him the website above and then ask him what he would like you to do to support him commencing steps to get better.

He sounds like he loves you all, don't throw this away. UNLESS you truly believe he is being abusive to you or your children, but even then the process towards recovery might be the same, just backed up by telling him to try and sort this (with your help) or move out for a while.

I suspect some of the most useful advice in this tread is to improve your own life - and I write this as someone who has had depression, and whose husband has been in that same black hole. Thank god not at the same time!

chaya yes he cycles, he gets more exercise than me. In fact he is cycling now, he likes the solitude.

SGB he knows that. He is pretty lucid about it all, and he can see the damage he is doing which is why he wants to go. He isn't asking me to look after him. We both know I can manage without him, but I don't want to have to. You are right that I need to be clearer about what I expect of him.

I think his family should know, I don't want to cope with this alone (mine knows but live too far away to help). He doesn't want to tell them, his dreads his mother's reaction (which will not be helpful to him, I know that).

SGB, while what you say is correct on principle (in an ideal world), I'm not sure it's that helpful to ignore the fact that many many people do behave like this, and yet (surprise surprise) their partners love them & want to help them & find the whole thing extremely distressing. For god's sake, the answer to everything is not to be insulting about a man who OP clearly loves, who has other good points which she values & who is in distress.

I'm not saying that adults should behave like this, but sometimes they do & we're trying to put our heads together & think of how to help OP. Threats of separation sometimes do work and are necessary, but I'm getting a bit fed up with how easily this is offered as THE solution here on MN. I'm not at all sure separation is always the answer although sometimes it can be a very good answer. But not always & not for everyone.