Last night DH told me that he is fed up with his job, family life, everything

[cornishblue]

And it wasn't the first time. He has been saying this on and off for years, in between periods of normality.

He is moody, he shouts and the children for the most petty things and sulks regularly. But sometimes he can "put it all to one side" and behave like a good, loving husband and father.

He says he's not about to leave. Part of me wishes he would just go and sort himself out, because I cannot carry on with him like this. But the rest of me is terrified.

Cornish - your situation reminds me of close friends of mine. They had been very entrenched in their marriage, stuck in roles which were largely based on their families expectations.

He was depressed and had years of therapy. She made the decision to become a lot more independent - took up new hobbies, made new friends, persisted in her career - and he discovered why he had fallen in love with her. It wasn't easy. She was genuinely prepared to go it alone, but he was then able to see her as a person again in her own right, and started to work hard to convince her that he was worth hanging onto!

HTH

SGB & COrnishblue, I see what you mean & I agree with what both of you say. It's very very hard & frustrating as it is to live with someone who suffers from chronic depression which is not in every case clinical depression, it can just be an underlying mood & style of the depressed person which yes, can lead to utter selfishness unfortunately, as it can lead to whining, nagging, complaining, lack of energy etc :( Very very hard.

To be even more pessimistic about it all, while sometimes therapy / drugs can help, and they do help some people, there are some who have this type of depressive personality all their lives, more or less, and it can't necessarily ever completely shift, or in any case not that easily...

Do you feel, Cornishblue, that your DH was ever really different than how he is now? Has his mood progressively changed to the worse? or has he always, more or less, been like this?

UQD, I don't think it's SAD although it happens the minute we come home from a holiday, sometimes while we are still away, so it's not the actual lack of light, more the dread of routine. And it happens at random times in between. I am mostly very sympathetic and conciliatory, but I have run right out of sympathy, because he's not doing anything to help himself.

Notquite, my defence mechanism kicks in at times like this and I start planning in case I have to stand on my own two feet. Maybe he notices, which is why he stops the drama every so often?

Maria, he is a very different person now. He has been dissatisfied at various levels for 7 years on and off, but before that he was a straightforward sort of man.

Cornishblue, I have a suggestion / thought:

If, for the sake of argument, we were to imagine that this is how your DH is and he won't be changing much in the future, or at least won't change to a point where it would make a real difference, what would you do?

There's 3 courses of action, as I can see it:

1. splitting up if things are unbearable
2. staying & trying trying trying in various ways to change your DH
3. staying (for reasons you are clear about) while having accepted who he is, and focusing on the pleasurable aspects of your life, and on your own life course.

I feel that number 2 is unfortunately what most people do in such difficult situations ie hope against all hope that the other will change, and nag him constantly so that he can change. But unfortunately people don't change because someone else wants/needs them to, that's a sad but true fact of life.

In which case, if I were you, I'd focus more on myself & what I can do to change my life, rather than what he can do to change his life. If you feel that focusing on yourself & accepting him isn't enough, then fair enough, of course you can also end the marriage, that's always an option.

But it may be that how he is these days is how is is, full stop :(.

Maria, thank you for your clear thinking! This is more than I am capable of at the moment.

I think we're beyond option 2. Knowing me (and how awful option 1 would be) I would probably end up at 3 by default. The problem with that is the effect he is having on the children. I need to protect them from the worst of his tantrums and put-downs which can be devastating. Then again they might prefer that to seeing us separate.

I am tempted to give his moods a bit less headspace, ignore some of his behaviour, raise my expectations of him (I sound like I'm talking about a toddler!) and get on with my own life. But we are married, and what basis is that for a marriage?

I so wish he would TALK TO ME.

cornishblue - as somebody who is currently reading up on parenting techniques to help with my toddler, I personally wouldn't worry too much that what you're planning is the same. Toddlers are people too!

"I need to protect them from the worst of his tantrums and put-downs which can be devastating. Then again they might prefer that to seeing us separate. "

really?

try temporarily separating, legitimately going off without him somewhere for a few days - does the cloud lift? do you feel free?

then consider being able to live like that day to day...

freeing yourself from tantrums of a grown man - well it is liberating for all and espec the DC. they can still see him, have a relationship with him spend time with him - but also have a liberated life.

think about it. i think it is seriosuly misguided to make your dc put up with tantrums and put downs from a grown amn because separating seems a worse option.

either he gets help for his woes; goes off to his "mission" or something. but dont think that putting up is the best option - i did for years trying to make my exP feel better....big mistake...

If your kids are living with tantrums and put-downs don't be so sure they want you to stay together.

Your DH sounds like how my father was. Although we were financially well off I absolutely loathed my childhood and feel quite angry that my mother put us through it.

Don't forget that your children are learning how to behaviour through your and your DH's example. Do you want them to grow up thinking misery id the default option to adult life?

UQD: But this man isn't just miserable, he's bullying the rest of the family with his miseries. And he is not doing anything to help himself. It is not the job of his wife and children to be his emotional punchbags and nursemaids - their wellbeing matters too.

have you recently been away on hols. is there anyway you could go and talk to someone?

I'm not saying the way he is behaving is good, but I am suggesting that there is a clinical reason behind it which needs to be understood. Some of the attitudes on here veer dangerously close to "what a nasty MAN, what do you expect of a MAN, he's just a big bullying MAN" etc.

There probably is a clinical reason for his long term depressive state but it is grossly unfair of him to make the family take the backwash of his moods and shouting. He is not wanting to take any responsibility here for his own mental health issues.

These children are being taught highly damaging relationship lessons, lessons they could themselves carry into adulthood and their own adult relationships.

but this has been going on "for years".
op can't do anything in garden or home in case he "won't approve". what happens when he doesnt approve? what does he do?
how much do you alter your behaviour to avoid an outburst? what do the dcs have to do so daddy doesnt get cross?

he says he "won't leave" but points out how miserable he is.

there is more to it I fear.

my exP also would moan and moan and even threaten to leave it was so awful being with me and the DCs - then promised he would never leave.

(he was right too - in the end I had to leave...) ..

growing up is about being an adult - working (whther the childcare at home or outside), supporting your family - changing things if you unhappy. talking with your other half about what would make life better for both..

taking yourself to GP/counsellor etc if things are miserable. taking up jogging/sport if you need a vent.

if there is clinical reason - op can ask him to go to GP but if he refuses to recognize there is an issue then yes, he is a bully...

op - if you really think you can "help" him then maybe convince him to take a holiday and go off on his own to do something he enjoys for a week; and to use that time to consider what he does have in his wife and family, and to come back willing to take steps to make his life better etc.

he needs to decide on his own what he wants and whether he can accept being a grown up - and you need time to consider what you prepared to put up with and what the dcs should put up with....

UnquietDad, I'm not sure I'm reading the same thread as you...

Who is suggesting that there is no possible clinical reason for what he's feeling?

The issue is that he doesn't seem to be prepared to do anything about it. And nobody other than him can do anything about it.

tbh I think your relationship is truly on the rocks.

If you can't agree a way forward together then I think it won't just be dh who will be miserable, you all will be.

Unthinkable as it may be to you to consider a split, I think you need to actively consider a split as I think it very possible that your dh might take matters into his own hands on this anyway in the near future.

Can you both get some counselling?

I suggested counselling but he isn't that keen. Might be persuadable. A temp split might be helpful, if only for him to realise what he/we all have to lose

He is home now, I hope we can talk later but I'm so tired that i might not be very clear-headed.

cornishblue - as someone who has recently suffered from depression, I know how hard it has been for my dh. I have had treatment and counselling and it is slowly getting better. Think my dh wld have found it very hard to cope if I hadn't helped myself. Makes a difficult situation worse. My Mum suffered for years but wouldn't admit it or get any help and she just went downhill and got harder and harder to relate to. Agree with IsitMeor. You have to do something for the sake of your loved ones. Think maybe you need to lay it on the line that he needs to get help and say what his behaviour and refusual to get help is doing to you and your dcs.

Cornish, it must be so hard for you because you obviously love your DH.

I agree with whitecloud that if you are at the end of your tether you need to lay things on the line with him to make him realise you cant take any more.

I did the same with my DH, for the same reasons you have talked about.

It really made him realise that he was too taken up in his own troubles and that he was making everyones life a misery, and that he didnt want to lose his family.

He made some changes, mainly by us just talking for hours and hours, about our feelings, our family, future plans etc. we are all so much happier. I'm not saying things are perfect, I have learnt that because, like your DH, he has a high pressured job, he does still get very stressed, but he is now allowed a bloody good moan for an hour[or two], then we change the subject.

Your DH needs to know how serious things are, he then needs to get help, even if just from you.

I hope things work out for you.

We had a talk, and he admits that he is depressed. He feels terrible about what he is doing to our family, he hates himself for how he is. He doesn't want to take drugs or do more therapy though so I don't know how he is going to get better.

He thinks it's too late to save our relationship and we'd be better off if he left - he vaguely suggested giving me half his salary every month and leaving.

All he wants is to be on his own, preferably with a bottle of whisky (he drinks too much, too). But I can't let him go. It might be what he wants, or he thinks he wants, but it isn't what he needs. I can't let him do that to himself.

This too sounds so familiar cb, and no surprise that its depression. At least he has actually come out and said what is wrong, thats a step in the right direction.

My husband said the same (see my previous 'tent' comment) - that we would be better off if he left (very much guilt based I suspect). Of course thats a decision only you can make, but my husband is better now and the lovely man I married is back almost all the time, so there is hope. Is it worth talking more about getting him to the docs? Maybe he is so depressed he cant even take that step without your help?

If he continues to refuse to seek help, other than continue in the awful situation you and your DCs are in, then the only option would be separation I suppose.

Really hope you can get him to seek some help x

Ah, Cornish, the drinking...I knew a man who had terrible mood swings and who sounds exactly like your dh. Once he stopped drinking so much the mood swings stopped, the put downs stopped and the depression stopped. Family life returned to normal, it was that simple.

You may have to let him do that to himself. Hard though it sounds, you aren't responsible for him, he is. You have to decide what is best for you and the dc.

I'd start by getting some support for families who live with alcoholism. I think this is what Al-Anon do?

Which bit of "being depressed" gives you the right to torture your family? Tell him to do something about it...oh and he drinks too much...sounds like a right so and so to me...

"He hates himself" Awwww diddums...

In his case, drinking is a consequence, not the cause of his depression. It takes the edge off how he feels about everything, he said. He doesn't drink nearly as much when he feels ok.

follyfoot, how did your DH get better?

Cornish - I really think that you owe it to yourself, your dc and even him to let him go and do just that.

As a long term sufferer from depression ('remission' for several years now I'm delighted to say) I would say that the ONLY way of improving is to realise that you, and you alone, have to take responsibility for your life.

If the start of that means he sits in a flat drinking whisky, then so be it. At least it is a choice he has made on his own. I don't think it will take long for him to hit rock bottom and realise he needs to DO something about himself and his life.

At the moment you are taking responsibility for all that. All he has to do is be fairly apologetic after one of his grim moody spells (which meanwhile has had an awful effect on you and your dc yet again).

I'm sorry but work or no work, he currently has a piss easy life (depression notwithstanding) and that has to change or nothing will change.

I say all this in the knowledge that the one thing that helped my depression was running out of people who would 'sort things out' for me when I was feeling 'fragile' and 'couldn't cope'. Don't get me wrong, depression is very real and debilitating, but will never improve until the sufferer accepts responsibility for it.