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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Come and talk to me about the protocol for single women being friends with married men

131 replies

Panoramic · 05/09/2010 14:55

... and help me get out of a mess I seem to have obliviously ambled into. The mess is too wearisome to explain in detail, but the short version is that a woman in my village who I have been friendly with in the past but less so of late, but whose husband I do get along well with - and have got up to no funny business with - has been gossiping about me getting too friendly with her husband and telling people that she thinks there may be something going on between us. There isn't.

This had never occurred to me before now, because I have a handful of male married friends who help me out or come over for a meal and a chat with their wives' blessings, but is there a protocol that I'm missing, for how single women generally should and shouldn't interact with male friends who are in a relationship?

Please tell me, as a rule, are greeting hugs/pecks on the cheek OK? Them helping unblock a drain or fix a burst pipe? Can I have a drink with them? Can they pop over for an impromptu chat and meal (that I'm cooking for myself anyway)? What does and doesn't look OK from the outside looking in? Because I have obviously got something wrong somewhere along the line - even if that's just been being nice and friendly and not looking like the back end of a bus.

I really don't rate being gossiped about as a morally bankrupt husband predator (which I'm not), and want to make sure I know The Rules moving forward so I can make sense of why this has happened, and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Thanks.

OP posts:
Panoramic · 06/09/2010 22:25

Who mentioned curtain rods?!

Right, first things first: thank you. I appreciate you all posting on this. It's useful to see how a single woman being friends with a married/attached man can be perceived by some wives/partners. It's obviously a divisive point: some of you wouldn't give a rats arse, and others would be deeply unhappy about it. Some of you think it attractive that your other half would want to help someone like me out; others would be pissed off. Which probably explains why I feel confused about if I've done anything wrong or not.

Secondly, I need to set the record straight. In my OP, I asked towards the end what kind of interaction is generally considered OK between a single woman and married man, listing some examples. I haven't actually done all those things with the man in question! I have seen the man whom I supposedly have something going on with (sigh) without kids/his wife only twice: once last year, and once this year. It's not a regular occurrence. We just get along in a matey sort of way and have an occasional catch-up. So this is happening very rarely. And we don't hug or peck on the cheek either (more about that in a bit).

The other things I talked about were with reference to other married men I am friends with. When my loo blocked earlier this year, I tried unblocking it myself to no avail (tried the plunger/buckets of water/chemicals route), and ended up paying £200 for a plumber to sort it. A builder friend (who's married) insisted he sort it if there's a next time and that I mustn't shell out that amount again on getting it fixed. He has also offered to help insulate my loft before this winter. Another lovely (female) friend insisted her husband lag my pipes when they froze earlier in the year. I insisted not ? I wanted to do it myself ? and it got to the point where he was on his way over and I asked her to call him and get him to head home. Another male (married) friend, whose wife is also a close friend, occasionally helps me with my garden, which is way too big for DS and I to keep on top of. I think these offers of help are lovely and thoughtful and really don't think there are hidden (sexual) agendas going on here ? just kindness. And most of the time, I'm not asking for the help. I like - and try - to be as independent as possible. But I'm not superhuman and a bit of help can make a big difference sometimes.

And if the above is all OK with the respective wives, why the fuss with the man in question? Last year when he came over to eat, it had recently been his birthday, and because I'd just come back from holiday and hadn't had time to buy a present (as families, we exchange presents), I suggested he come over for a catch-up and I'd cook ? as a sort of I-haven't-organised-anything-else gift. I thought this was nice of me! I then offered the same to the wife for her birthday, too, a couple of months later. This summer, he and I met up to have an impromptu go at solving a problem on a computer game one evening ? both our sons had been playing it and we'd both got into it with them ? and as I was cooking anyway, I asked if he wanted some dinner too. That is it. On the very rare occasions we catch up just the two of us, it's matey. All the other times, it's with our kids/his wife/father-in-law too. I don't kiss him on the cheek or hug him. The reason I mentioned kisses/hugs is because all the other husbands in our village do this luvvie two-pecks-on-the-cheek thing and sometimes a hug too when they greet me (and other women, I presume), in front of their wives too. It's the done greeting here. No one seems to bat an eyelid. I honestly didn't think it could be considered a big deal.

So I'm a bit confused. I know my intentions were honourable with the married man in question. I've known his wife long enough for her to know I would never do anything like she is suggesting.

However, some of your posts make clear that these occasional meet-ups could be distressing to some wives (her included), and get me a reputation whether I deserve it or not. So, moving forward, I plan to keep a very low profile with the couple in question, refuse most help from married men unless it's an emergency or the wife is insistent/involved/a good friend too, and keep physical contact with married men to an absolute minimum (without conspicuously pulling away from luvvie pecks in a freaky panic!). I don't want to upset anyone, or give the wrong impression.

I do think it's a bit sad, though, because being a lone parent can be isolating enough as it is: you don't get invited to couple-centric things, and you're in most nights on your own. It would be sad if you had to write off male friendships on top of that (unless you fortuitously happen to get on just as well with their partners too) because of your marital status and assumed desperation/insatiable sex drive/lack of morals/whatever. And a bugger if you happen to simply get along well with men.

Thanks again for all your posts.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 06/09/2010 23:21

I think it would have been useful to have this explanation before posters waded in with their responses, as this feels like stealth posting.

And I still don't understand why you haven't been to talk to this friend of yours, either to reassure or remonstrate. If you were close enough as families to buy eachother presents and get together with the extended family, this seems a rather strange turn of events.

AnyFucker · 06/09/2010 23:27

yes, very stealthy

your last post sounds very reasonable and very together whereas your first sounded like "wtf ????"

you got the responses you deserved after the OP, but like WWIFN said, you might have got different ones after the longer one

however, your willingness to see things from another woman's POV, and the fact you haven't spat the dummy out after some nastyish aspersions cast on your character, becomes you Smile

paisleyleaf · 06/09/2010 23:28

I understand it was his birthday, but would you not invite the both of them for the catch-up and meal?

gingerwig · 07/09/2010 00:00

my husband often helps out other women with jobs round the house and regularly meets them for coffee.
i am very proud of him, more so if they fancy him .

I would not place limits on his behaviour, I don't own him.

Sandinmyshoes · 07/09/2010 09:51

So to all the married objectors out there... when I get married, do I have to wait for all my single male friends to get married before I can see them unaccompanied again? I think I might reconsider this marriage malarkey if it ends my life as I know it.

What very strange lives many of you live... are you all muslim with all these same sex only friendships unless they're married (and accompanied by spouse)or a close relative rules? If not I'm afraid you sound like quite oppressive partners who could do with injecting some more self esteem and self worth in to your life. I honestly, for all my sarcasm above feel sorry for you if showing charity to or accepting hospitality from a neighbour who's on their own is something for you to find distasteful just because of their gender.

Coolfonz · 07/09/2010 10:01

Well, you could shag him. Then there wouldn't be any misunderstandings/confusion.

Or, more left field, you could talk to your "friend" (the woman).

Or you could go on the internet and ask people you've never met what to do with your life. Tsk.

I reckon its a journalist from Bella or some shit like dat...

And what is stealth posting?

QS · 07/09/2010 10:06

I havent read the whole thread.
But, why are you so helpless?

Cant you unblock your own drain?

Do you enjoy being the single helpless woman who cooks nice meals for married men who come in to help with maintenance?

I would be FUMING at that setup. If I were at home fixing my own drains, hanging my own shelves, using a hammer drill, I would query why you couldnt, and why MY husband should go and do it.

PosieParker · 07/09/2010 10:08

I wouldn't want my husband being good friends with a single woman that wasn't my good friend.

Coolfonz · 07/09/2010 10:22

U r all paranoid init.

QS · 07/09/2010 10:30

Not paranoid. Just find helpless women who prey on men to come and help them with basic stuff pretty irritating. Why cant she find a plumber/labourer/handyman in yellow pages if she cant do general maintenance tasks herself?

SolidGoldBrass · 07/09/2010 10:38

Look, the hysterical monogamist mindset that has been sold to women as the 'right' way to behave is one of the great hindrances to feminism. If you're encouraged to base all your self-esteem onwhether or not you can keep a padlock on a man's underwear then you don't get a lot of time for, you know, developing as a person, finding interesting things to do with your life etc. Also, the core idea (that other women are 'the enemy' and have nothing on their minds but 'stealing' men) is a rather useful way to stop women from ever comparing notes on their actual lives and seeing what they have in common and indeed supporting each other when necessary.
Men who police their wives' behaviour to the extent of forbidding friendships are usually (and correctly) criticized on here as being controlling and/or pathetic losers, yet women who are obsessed with controlling their male partners' contact with any other women are given the 'Oh you poor thing, he should indulge your ego insecurities, men are beasts!' rather than the good kick in the fanjo this sort of behaviour really merits.

Sandinmyshoes · 07/09/2010 10:39

QS if you read her last post that's exactly what she does do... but some wives send their husbands round and other husbands just offer. It's what neighbours do - they help each other out (in a civilised society). To say that anyone who is single is a "helpless woman" who "preys on men" is laughable... the amount of married women I've heard moaning because "that ikea cabinet has been sat there for WEEKS, I don't know when he's going to put it up" or "I've been on at him to paint the bathroom" - (YOU do it yourself!) far outnumbers the number of singletons (with full time jobs) who are "preying on men" to do things for them - most get on with it themselves and call a handyman if/when it all goes t*ts up. Although apparently marriage means a sudden inability to put up furniture or carry out DIY as well as a ban on single friends of the opposite sex it seems...

TheLadyOfTheGreenKirtle · 07/09/2010 10:40

qs, the op has stated that she doesnt ask, the men offer to save her money, or their wives offer their services. i find the phrase women who prey on married men intensely irritating. i genuinely dont get why so many mners are so paranoid, dont you trust your partners/husbands? do you really think that all women are threats and will drop their knickers at the sight of a spanner? and all men are one drink away from a torrid affair?

TheLadyOfTheGreenKirtle · 07/09/2010 10:43

SGB, put it rather well, i think

emmyloulou · 07/09/2010 10:52

What very strange lives many of you live... are you all muslim with all these same sex only friendships unless they're married (and accompanied by spouse)or a close relative rules? If not I'm afraid you sound like quite oppressive partners who could do with injecting some more self esteem and self worth in to your life. I honestly, for all my sarcasm

It's not sarcasm, that was just bigotry. It was presumptious of Muslims and Islam and quite offensive it's not all like the Daily Mail says you know...

AnyFucker · 07/09/2010 11:13

I don't live a strange life, thanks. I just happen to think that in the tiny amount of spare time my DH gets, I wouldn't be happy if he was round some other woman's (single or otherwise) gaff unblocking her drains. He is needed at home, with his own family, and all the "unblocking of drains" that entails..

He helps out his extended family, and is available to step up for crisis situations wrt to friends/acquaintances

I think that is entirely how it should be

And I don't think Muslims (as a generic group) live "strange lives" either...

what an offensive thing to say Hmm

ScaredOfCows · 07/09/2010 11:20

SGB your derisory comments towards those of us in monogamous relationships - calling us "mundanes" and stating that we have a "hysterical monogamist mindset" is really quite offensive and doesn't, I don't think, forward feminism whatsoever.

PosieParker · 07/09/2010 11:21

Funny you shoul;d mention Police SGB as that profession is certainly one of the worst for cheating on wives. It's all about common problems and closeness that only the Police can understand, this means that men confide and confuse. They get all close with someone else that isn't moaning about finances, children and all the other mundane stuff that happens in family life and therefore become attractive and the next thing 'bang' the affair. Monogamy sometimes means, if you are committed, ensuring neither you or your spouse are in vulnerable positions that can lead to affairs.

AnyFucker · 07/09/2010 11:28

SOC...just ignore SGB when she does that

Her judgemental attitude is just as bad as the one she is accusing all the "hysterical monogamists" of...

she has been called on it many times though, and isn't changing her view any time soon

just think of her as a mad old auntie with strange views eg. that the moon is made of green cheese and you will be able to enjoy all her other many good qualities Grin

ScaredOfCows · 07/09/2010 11:32

AF I agree, but I always think it's a little sad when I read some of her rants. Still I am sure she isn't really as narrow minded as she comes across as....

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 07/09/2010 11:33

Regular users of Mumsnet will recognise that we sometimes get journalists posting a provocative article because they can't be arsed to do their own research.

We also get trolls (and I'm thinking of one in particular, whom AF might recognise) who start posts in one style, that is guaranteed to generate arguments, leave for the day while the argument rages, then come back with a much more reasonable stance and changes to the original information provided. Their goal is to get posters who have hitherto co-existed quite happily on threads, to argue with one another.

The fact that this poster is writing an internet thread rather than being an adult and confronting the situation (not that I think the situation actually exists) speaks volumes.

So I would say, don't feed it and don't provoke/get into arguments.

AnyFucker · 07/09/2010 11:36

I don't think she is either

but she thinks we are ...

< shrugs >

yes, WWIFN...I agree with you here. There is a pattern. But I don't really mind getting into rucks debates, anybody that has an ounce of self-esteem realises not to take it all so personally/seriously....

Coolfonz · 07/09/2010 11:42

I only allow Mrs Fonz to talk to married women as single ones might be lezbonoodles who try and turn her after offering her some quiche for lunch.

QS · 07/09/2010 11:52

I think talking about it often equals asking. It is like hinting isnt it?

Why does she only invite the men for dinner on their own? Why is the wife not welcome?
Is the wife home cooking for herself and the kids, while their husbands dine with single neighbours?

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