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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

860 replies

IseeGraceAhead · 03/09/2010 01:13

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

OP posts:
pinemartina · 12/09/2010 20:49

Hi everyone!Just back from wonderful weekend away.Just what we all needed and now to face life back in daily life....

Not heard a word from my ds or his f.I think xh should have tx to let me know ds is ok - actually, I reckon he should have made ds ring me to say sorry.....Will see what tomorrow brings...

My xp : Was obsessed with his poo,bowels and arsehole,and regaled me with information about them on a regular basis.Anyone else so much as mentioning anything related to theirs or anyone elses' would be put swiftly in their place...

He also enjoyed farting loudly,absolutely anywhere and describing the smell,saying he enjoyed it
....but that would be when in poor self care mode,during which he also neglected to change his clothing,wash or shave for many days......
he would eventually resume his more regular self obsessed,highly groomed,expensively scented peacock self.Complete with dyed chest hair(bald head,polished)

He carried a digital dictaphone everywhere .This was in case he was ever pulled over by police - drove a white van,so often did - when he would relish tying them up in verbal knots,winding them up,being deliberately provocative and "turning the tables" on them.He always accused them of some breach of justice,would demand names and numbers and spend the following few days speaking to inspectors threatening complaints/press involvement.....Also did this with any unfortunate sales assistants/hotel staff/waiters etc .Was hugely proud of this "skill"...

He was declaring love within a few dates and we also stayed up all night soul baring within a few weeks,after which I was convinced we had some "special bond".A belief which persisted until very recently...

Hard to continue missing such a charmer...

This is all very validating.Smile

Unlikelyamazonian · 12/09/2010 21:22

Lovely to meet you and your lovely dcs pine.

That farting thing. Sooo true. My exH would let out the most terrible house-shattering farts on the bog (and cough really loudly trying to cover them up which it didn't, it just made the whole decibel-busting sound even more appalling) and then come into the bedroom and want sex.....And then be mightily pissed off when I said that the sound of him spilling the entire contents of his bum just now had not exactly made me feel amorous and sex was not on the agenda.

Hilarious looking back. Disgusting at the time.

Onwards and upwards!xxx

Mummiehunnie · 12/09/2010 21:59

Grace I looked at the asos karma necklace, it was a nicklace and had lots of loops like that like in the olympics only very small... the design of the stuff was the same, she did not say where she got it from, she did ask if I had a copy, I have, it is in a huge stack of stuff stored elsewhere! to be honnesst with you the last thing I want to do is go back through that stuff and the feelings it brings unless I have to, the logo writing style colours and even the stars etc all are very similar! she was secretative about other stuff as well, she had a baby to a guy and did not tell him, moved away so he could not trace her etc, she also was in touch with my bro as she dated him years ago, she went to school with us, I don't know I just don't trust her really, there is a bit inside of me worrying am I being hypersensitive to stuff as she lives near ex's wives family and I know in the past she has kept stuff from me... and I know she struggles financially and maybe thought the money meant more to her and kept quiet about it!

Mummiehunnie · 12/09/2010 22:01

grace, the logo of her company which sells jewelery is the same as the one that was sent to dd...

Mummiehunnie · 12/09/2010 22:04

Pine you sound very together re your son and his f!

Re the farting yes yes yes, no respect for others with regards to that, eventually I got fed up holding them in and let them off too, he was making me sick with his chillie farts! he loved letting them off in public and watching others reactions!

Mummiehunnie · 12/09/2010 22:07

reading my post back it is not making sense, I have so much to say and I did not take the time to make sense, the stuff I am referring to is the box and paperwork that the necklace came in... I got such a fright about it all, I have kept myself so protected for almost a year now, the last rubbish thing was that necklace, and the thought that someone was friends with me on fb that had contact with the ex or those around him scares me!

gettingeasier · 12/09/2010 22:07

Pine and UA I know you didnt mean it too but those last posts had me in stitches,yep totally hilarious all of it especially your xp's "skill" pine. Surreal

dignified · 12/09/2010 22:24

Hehehe at these farts poos and arseholes. I honestly wonder now how i ever had sex with him , he also used to have to be told to brush his teeth , get a haircut , he often stank. Ugh. He once come downstairs with a trail of toilet roll hanging out of the back of his pants. There was poo on it , and he tried to bame it on the kids ffs !

He was also vulgar and rude , would grope me constantly and say disgusting things to me in a benny hill type of way. Mine loved his dictaphone too.

Mummie , i dont get it , do you think he got it off this woman ?

pinemartina · 12/09/2010 22:33

WTF was in it for us - I mean SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!

I am laughing my self stupid here....

Big changesSmile

Sooooo validating and liberating talking with you UA XXX

Check my post on Stately Homes!!!

IseeGraceAhead · 12/09/2010 22:34

He once come downstairs with a trail of toilet roll hanging out of the back of his pants. There was poo on it
[shock Shock Grin
ohhh, how you must miss these snotty-bottomed bum boys Hmm

OP posts:
Mummiehunnie · 12/09/2010 22:35

makes me feel sick!

Ok I had a feeling I was not making sense!

if you got a package from marks and spencer iit would be different logo design in packaging from say john lewis, the packaging design that came with the necklace is the same as the logo design the girl I know has on her website logo link, the same colours stars etc....
so the package comes from marks and spencer's dispactch with card saying it is from who ever! that was a package sent to dd from some random jewelery maker who I now think is this girl....

When you get a card from moonpig it is typed on envelope, inside is typed so no handwriting, stuff can be changed in the titles of the cards well dd's name was in speech bubble, well the stuff that was coming was saying it is from ex to dd, you see if you go to police with this stuff it is hard to prove it is from ex as his handwriting is not on any of it, it is being despatched from elsewhere, and karma necklace was written on the paperwork, and as he had sent nasty card of child in bin, which I found in twisted section in moonpig when I checked it up after we got it, it felt like sending something with karma was being nasty also!

Dione · 12/09/2010 22:35

Dignified, regardless of his reasons he is being an arse to expect you to leave your DCs alone in order to be with him.

I agree what has been said here about boundaries. I think that one of the reasons I stayed with Ex for so long was my commitment to my boundaries, even when he made it difficult. Now that we are apart, it has been really difficult but with each month that has passed I get stronger and am more able to enforce my boundaries. To those who are experiencing difficulties, persevere. You will get stronger and he will have to keep within them or piss off.

In a couple of ways I have been lucky. My Ex is lazy so he will not commit to a concerted effort of torturing me, but he does try to push it every now and then, that's when I call him and tell him how it will be. He is obsessed by what others think about him and I have now learned to use this to mine and DS's advantage. None of the other women in his life (his mother and the mother of his DD) have ever stood strong against his tears, charm, manipulation, so he is in unchartered territory now. Also a member of my family was with an alcoholic and attended AlAnon and has been really good with helping me break my codependancy.

PM, glad you had a good weekend. Your Ex will not have texted you or allowed DS to text you in the hope that it would wreck your enjoyment. I hope things are OK.

dignified · 12/09/2010 22:46

Cheers Dionne , hes had the boot now , i wont be explaining myself to anyone like that again.

Mummie , did they know each other well ? Shes obviously lying if her link says she started selling it a year ago. I think these fuckers can spot each other or those like them , they often try to get allies.

Mummiehunnie · 12/09/2010 22:52

dignified they met once, she knows our names add so if she distributed it it is that that scares me! I don't think she is nasty persa, she is quite insecure actually, she had few b/f's, got with the guy she had the baby to got pregnant quickly, the next thing when i was around at hers she told me she did not want anything to do with him due to his pre ej, the next thing she said he was stalking her, next thing she moved hundreds of miles away and after than we were not in as much touch!

mathanxiety · 13/09/2010 05:49

I do think there's a link between the nasty card and the karma idea -- both of them together expressing a desire to see your DD get some sort of comeuppance? They can and will lash out at children. Nobody is safe, and every gift has some kind of message in it.

exH creeped out my 2 older DDs with weird ladies underwear (silk longjohns for one and a silk camisole top for the other) two Christmases ago. The articles didn't fit them, and were completely random in colour and style and purpose. Do men in general buy their teenage DDs underwear? There was something really 'off' about the gifts, they were the least sexy items you can imagine, much more suitable for warmth than titillation of any kind, and not the sort of thing the teenage DDs would have picked for themselves in a million years, but.... underwear?

Mummiehunnie · 13/09/2010 09:45

where would you even buy that math? sounds like old lady underwear from some stuffy old shop? weird.... I wonder if there is something there for him about not wanting them to be sexual beings if they are teens!

Mummiehunnie · 13/09/2010 09:56

His wife when she first wrote to me said she believed in karma not god, i think that came from here as he never had any interest in karma in all the time i knew him, also she apparently had an obsession with shoes (kids told me from the massive collection she had on show) after they told me that it dawned on me some of his odd abusive comments must have come from her about their idea that I was spending the children's money on shoes and handbags... which was well odd!!!! another transfer i think came from her was the stuff about attacking me for spelling and grammar, he knows I have dyslexia and has never passed comment on the spelling, then he kept picking at me about the spelling, I have noticed on their facebook likes he and she have added some group about people who have trouble with spelling and how they are pathetic etc..... I looked on net about that sort of thing and they said people who are obsessed with it have ocd... and ocd people try and pass it on, it seems to have worked with ex.... he was into some of the same things i was when he was with me, one was being into the children, one was gardening, one was sobriety, get the picture, as soon as he got with her, it was drink, party, kids unimportant... it is almost like autism no idea or identity of his own, how sad for him, I will know when or if he has another partner who is not like his current wife!

ValiumSingleton · 13/09/2010 12:09

Mathanxiety, do your children see your xh as he really is? or is there still an element of 'oh you just weren't compatible, he's got his good side Mum, you can't see it' in their perception of him.

I agree, buying underwear for teenaged daughters creepy.

mathanxiety · 13/09/2010 15:01

Oh no, they all did the maths and know exactly when they won't have to go to his place for the second weekend thing any more. None of them ever has a good word to say about him. He's the same with them as he was when we were all together, with the oppressive atmosphere and the attitude that nobody would be happy unless he permitted it.

redderthanred · 13/09/2010 16:04

just seen this thread. Having a very wobbly day.
am going to use this as an outpouring, and i do hope that is ok.

Met D when we were both 20. Married by the time we were 22. During this time he cheated on me once that i knew off, and then a lot of the time i suspected him ,but didnt know for sure.

He asked me to marry him, and with things bad at home and a promise of moving away i was more than happy to.

He was cheating within months of being married, i suspected and found texts. I was accsued of being over sensitive, susicous, jealous, and that if i didnt stop id drive him to cheat. Even in the light of proof he still denied it, making me call her on the phone and then having a go at me so she couild hear.

I gained weight, he called me discusting, he told me he told this other woman he found me discusting.

He had friends over the whole time, i would get home from work to find a housefull and be expected to cook for them all and provide beers. When i complained i was being anti social.

He belittled me in front of friends, saying he provided everything in the house and i didnt. which was not true. If i said anything i needed to get a grip and was over emotional.

First xmas he phoned me about the 20th dec saying he didnt love me and wanted a divorce. Then 2 days later changed his mind.

He went away for 9 months,coming home every other weekend, i lost weight. He then went away for a few months, in this time i found secret emails to girls and that he had joined dating sites. He told he it was just a laugh.. or that he was looking for a nother woman to join us, and i was being selfish and pathetic and needed to grow up.

He returned home with his bags full of half naked pics of girls, and letters from friends saying they were sorry his marriage was crap.

When questioned he just denyied knowledge and said i was suspicos and pushing him away.

He would go out and come home without his wedding ring on.

I should add here, that he ws in the army, so i gave up everything to be with him. house, family, friends jobs, and moved miles and miles to be with him.

He used to have a go at how i kept the house, undermine me, throw plates at me if i questioned him. Call me selfish.

We moved abroad, a fresh start. he promised the earth. We had a great summer. He went away - came back and wanted a baby. I wasnt quite ready and then he changed his mind.
He soon started just playing on pc games all the time. We spent no time togther. i would have to beg him to spend any time with me. I went to bed on my own. If he wanted sex he woke me up in the night. If i didnt want to, he would just carry on and eventually i would give in. Or he would get angry and ask what had happened to my sex drive.

I got ill and ended up being raced into hospital. He was hung over and depsite trying to wake him i called my own ambulance and went off by my self. despite not speaking the langunage. It was 8 hours before he vistied me. Then he only visited me 30 mins each day. I was stuck in hospital, not speaking the language on my own.
The morning after i came home i logged online to check my emails. It automatically logged into his msn and some girl starts chatting to him about how was is night on the piss. Turns out he had been chatting to women online again. He packed his bags saying i was jealous and couldnt trust him so would not be with me.

I begged him back.

My job wasnt good enough ( very limited jobs) i wasnt making enough money, i was lazy, fat, selfish. I watched rubbish tv programmes, my hobbies were crap, i hadnt lived enough life, he knew more than me, i was pathetic when he met me.
This were things i was told on a daily basis.

He went away again. Two days before he was due to come back he called me and said he wasnted a divorce. I then could not contact him until he got home, which took 3 days. By the time he came home he said he made a mistake and just missed me.Things were ok and i got pg. It was planned.

Once day i found an email from a girl where he had been away at. and a large phone bill. He said they were just friends and the normal speil came out.

Finally he confessed to all the affairs, told me it was my fault. and he wanted a divorce. He did this by phone as he was in the uk and i was abroad. I flew back to the uk to try and sort things out. i was 3 months pg. he told me he couldnt decide but i was to go back abraod and wait for him to return in two months time and he would have decided by then.

He came back and said he was just being silly.
The constant underming happened daily, i was awrong, or i was silly, ior i was stupid. or i was overemotional to recating to him.

There was physical abuse. Throwing tihngs, or me across the room. pushing me. trapping my finger in a door, taking my keys so i couldnt leave. But as he never punched me he siad it wasnt domestic abuse and i was pathetic and noone would listen to me.

I had our child and everything was ok for a few weeks. One day he was in a very bad mood. we were arguing about something, i dont remember what. he kicked a chair out from under me and threw my hairbrush at me. It narrowly missed our child who was laying on the bed. I went mental at him. he said i was over reacting and pathetic. We went for a walk with the dog. Because i refused to talk to him he ran off with the dog and buggy leaving me stranded with no mobile phone, 5 weeks post c section stuck at the top of a moutain that had snow on it. I was patetic for not talking to him and needed to get over myself.

I went back to the uk to show our child off to family.
He phoned me and told me he had moved out. He then hung up and turned his phone off for a week.
I went back abraod and he told me i had to move.

I packed up the house, went back to the uk and stayed at my dads.

2 months past

He called and said he was going away again and i had better come back abroad so he could spent time with his child before he went and that if i didnt, and anything happened to him it would be my fault.

I went back.

He was meant to see his child on the friday, the day before. He never turned up. He was awol for 8 hours. his parents called the police. When he eventually came home at 2am he was fuming as it was my fault apparently. He had gone to see some girl off the internet.

I spent two weeks with him then. It came to light he had been sening all the girls he had cheated with pics of our child.

Sad

I found a job and a house and started afresh. he called me in nov to say he missed me and wanted to give it another go. I told him i didn not know, but would see when he got back. He came back in feb for 2 weeks and it was ok. It took another year before he was back in the uk and after 6 months he asked for a house off the army and we moved back in. I had no choice in this. he told me it was silly to be apart and i was stopping us being a proper family.

The constant digs and undermining started again on the day i moved back in with him.

Within 6 weeks it was over. I found a secret email account by chance that had pics of him cshagging various women in. One when we had just got back together. he told me it was olf and didnt matter and lets have a chinease for tea. I couldnt even look at him, but he said i was over emotional and patheitc and was driving him away.

The next two weeks was awful. He just ignored me, refused to talk to me, Was never in teh house. I kicked him out and it seems he started a relationship with someone the next day. ( because thats ever so likely).

redderthanred · 13/09/2010 16:05

i have no idea how to process all of this. Most days im ok. Today not so much. Im so upset and angry and full of self loathing.

pinemartina · 13/09/2010 16:35

red,I am so sorry about what you have experienced. It sounds absolutely dreadful.No wonder you are having bad days and finding it hard to process.

He is an abuser.He dominated,controlled and abused you because he chose to.

But not because of anything you did or didn't do.

You must have a lot of strength to have got this far.I am so glad you found this thread,welcome!.As you can see,there are many women here who are moving forward after relationships with abusers.

Are you safe now? Do you and your dc have RL support?Have you spoken to Womens Aid? It sounds as if you would benefit from some counselling,WA may be able to offer this.

I have to do my dc 's tea,but am sure there will be others along soon.x

redderthanred · 13/09/2010 16:48

Im fine. Its 20 months down the line. I picked muyself up, moved 70 miles away, found a job and got on with it.

hes still a lying, evil arse, who trys to tell me im no good. ( had an incident just last week)

Ive not spoken to womens aid, ive not really spoken to anyone about it. i was going to name change as i hate admitting all this happened. i still feel embarassed and ashamed, like im the failure.

ive probably missed loads off as well. I think i forgett really.

For years he told me he was only with me because of the dog, and it was the dog stopping him from leaving.

he used to tell people i stopped him from going out, and make a big deal of having to ask me. I never once did. But i think he liked people to think i was horrible.

He told me i was ugly and had a big nose and a squeaky voice. That i was frumpy. I know this is not true, but in odd momments like these i do doubt myself.

All the cheating and telling me i was making it up. I didnt know if i was coming or going. The he would tell me i had a problem and needed to get help. All our talking about it relvoved around me not being suspisious and him not having to prove anything and me giving him more attention.

I never got kissed unless he wanted sex. never got cuddled, no affection at all. Not for years and years. if i kissed him i was told i had to finish what i started. That was if i even managed to get his attention away from the pc.

I did all his washing, all the cleaning, all the shopping, all the cooking. He used to tell me off if i hadnt done it well enough, because it was embarassing if someone came round. We had blazing rows because i refused to pair up his socks. In 10 years he never once put a load of washing on. He does it now, i asked him why his gf doesnt do it and why he didnt do it when we were together. he just says it was becuse he didnt want to do it then. I made him not want to do it.
That was his reaction to everything. therefore i think, even though i know its not true, but it must be my fault. There must be sometihng wrong with me

mathanxiety · 13/09/2010 17:11

Redderthanred, big hugs to you, and well done for making it 20 months on your own with your precious baby.

Please, please, go to WA and ask them if there's counselling available for you to talk it all over with, even though it's been a while. After 10 years of terrible treatment you could probably do with support in putting it behind you. It is very hard to 'admit' that someone had you in his power like this; such an experience tells everything about him and what a vile individual he is, and when it comes to you, it tells about your courage.

There is nothing wrong with you. And you are not a failure. You had the terrible bad luck to have been sucked into a black hole at a time when you were vulnerable. You had good, loving instincts, and the courage to listen to your gut and challenge a very scary man about the cheating and everything else you felt wasn't right. You went ballistic when he threatened your baby. And you sent him packing in the end. Well done, and hold your head high.

Only advice I would give is to not try to talk to him personally about any of it any more, to try and keep him as much out of your life as you can.

redderthanred · 13/09/2010 17:24

scary - ha im 5ft 3 on a good day. hes 6ft 4 and 20 stone.

I always wonder in film and things, or ive heard women say they have slapped a man round the face when hes cheated, or called them a name or something.

I would never had done such a thing in fear of what he might do. I knew he would have no problem in hurting me. He threw me down the stairs once, but soon as he happened he asked calmly why i had been so stupid to fall down stairs.

If he was arguging with me he woulnt let me go to bed, or would and then would wake me up til it was sorted. Id be crying with tiredness begging him to leave me alone and he wouldnt until i ended up agreeing with him. The following day he would act like nothing had ever happened.

If i ever mentioned athing about his cheating, or how he behaved over anyhing i was ' threatening the marriage by refusing to let go and constantly reminding him and brining things up'

If i questioned him, or sought advice from someone else he took it as a personal insult and would sulk for days until i said sorry and promised not to do it anymore.

I think i just try and foreget about it all really. Then once every 4/6 months or so i have a day like today where i just cant stop crying and feeling very sorry for myself.

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