Sulking and mild emotional abuse

[Atlantisun]

Hi There,

I'm new to the forum and have been reading another, older thread discussing a similar issue as my own.

There is a pattern emerging in my relationship with my partner which I now suspect to be a mild form of emotional abuse and need to control. I related to everything on the other thread and have ordered the Lundy Bancroft book recommended but several people.

Things will be going great between us then suddenly he will change, start sulking, and be in a bad mood for no apparant reason. This is done in such a way as to make me feel I have done something wrong or to annoy him. When questioned he will deny it, or be irritated that I mentioned it, or accuse me of being the one that is sulking/moody.

I may find out later that something unrelated to me has happened in his life to upset him (perhaps a problem with his son from previous marriage) and that he is projecting this onto me. Or maybe something has happened to make him feel insecure about me (perhaps a male friend making an innocent friendly comment on my facebook page).

Or it may be as simple as I don't agree with him about something. At the moment he has gone to work in the huff because I disagreed with a remark he made that I felt was inappropriate and potentially offensive about someone.

I intend to read the Lundy Bancroft book and have put a time limit of 6 months on the relationship to see how things develop (he does not know this). Then at least I will know that I have tried everything to work towards a healthy relationship . I don't expect or want to change him, but to have a relationship where there is mutual respect.

I would really like to discuss my feelings and confront him about these behaviours and thanks to all the other advice on the previous post as well as my other internet research I have a rough idea of how to approach this. However this is easier said than done. He has a tendency to interrupt so I lose my thread or he will twist everything round to place the blame on me and say that he is the one hard done by. Or he may just walk away and refuse to respond.

Or he will say things like ?Well if that's the way you feel then there is nothing I can do about it?or ?If that's the way you feel then I don't know why you are with me? This makes it nearly impossible to continue any sort of discussion.

I would greatly appreciate any further advice. Epecially in relation to how to deal with the reponses I get from him in the last paragraph that block the conversation continuing. This was not discussed in the other thread hence my own posting.

As I said before the majority of the time the relationship is fantastic so I am always taken by surprise and off guard when things change. When he is feeling better about himself again he is very loving and attentive in an unspoken attempt to make up for things. But I suspect this in itself is all just part of the emotional abuse cycle of contolling when and how often affection is handed out!

Anyway, thanks for reading.

You have to make it clear, that if he wants to be in YOUR life, he needs to accept and address his behaviour enough to do something about it. He needs to understand that this stuff is REALLY bothering you.

You have to mean it and be strong enough to stick to your guns. This may mean confronting issues of your own regarding boundaries and what you consider to acceptable in terms of your expectations in a relationship. I mean that you have to set your standards, and then stick to them.

Dead easy to write, the hardest thing in the world to do. Make it about YOU.

Best of luck!

How long have you been with him? There is no such thing as mild emotional abuse, it will probably escalate slowly and in steps. Don't bother arguing with him. I used to go nuts when my abuser kicked off, but I found responding with "What an immature, disgraceful thing to say" worked better. Especially when others were around. Keep your cool. It's good you are level headed at the moment and educated from the outset. So many women can't comprehend what their life is becoming till they are stuck in the cycle.

Thanks for the speedy feedback. We have been together 2 and a half years, and you are right spikeycow, looking back I can see that these incidences are slowly inrceasing in frequency and intensity- it sort of crept up on me. He was nothing like this at first. Keeping me cool is vital since it's the negative reaction that he is aiming for. I will definately use your response the next opportunity.

thisishowifeel - I am currently embarking on some self awareness / improvement which is probably why this is all come out at the moment! So I will definitely keep on track with that. And yes it is hard to put into action so thanks for the encouragement - this kind of support really helps.

will be watching this with interest as I am going through much the same...I don't think he realises how ready I am to walk though...also I need to be firmer in saying what is and what is not an acceptable way to talk to me

Atlanti - I feel I could have written your post myself! Am struggling with v similar issues. My decision taken after a completely over top reaction from H on hols which led to 24hrs of sulking and me single parenting while H sulked on own, is to bring it out in the open at couple counselling sessions. We are due to start again after 6 wk break. My H feels we don't need to return and when I said that I find it hard to discuss our relationship at moment without counselling to structure it, he said 'no you don't.' that says it all really!

I would love to chat on your thread about strategies because like you I want my relationship to work and am willing to work at it.

I am concerned though about your comment spikey- what d'you mean no such thing as mild EA- surely there is a continuum and the key is being assertive before the behaviour has become ingrained/too bad, to halt it. Is that very naive?

I think that with the right approach you might well be able to turn this around.

I have an ex who behaved like this - would go in sulks over nothing and it was always my job to work him out of his bad moods. I fell for it every time, and of course his moods got worse and more frequent. Looking back, I should have simply made it clear to him that I wasn't interested in his silly moods and left the room whenever he did it.

Then his behaviour wouldn't have gained him any attention and he would have dropped it.

My current partner of 11 years standing was a bit moody at the start of our relationship but I told him straight away where he could stick his moods and lo and behold he immediately stopped going in moods.

Maybe it's a bt simplistic to say it, but if you lay down the law instead of indulging these moods and making them your problem, then you might see him pull his socks up.

I would agree that laying down firm boundaries now is really important and it is early enough for you as a couple for it to not be too late, I'd have thought.

On a thread of mine one of the very wise MNers, maybe it was grace, suggested I look at transactional analysis as way of understanding our interactions. This helps a bit. I now try to respond as an adult, so if my H says "oh well there is no point carrying on if you feel like that" - I will now say "well there is a point IMO, that I love you and you say you love me, so surely there is a point in discussing something that I am upset by." I think this way helps, though can be bit exhausting TBH.

Have you tried keeping a diary of these upsets? I wonder if that would help you to remember he details well enough to then tAckle it at a later date when there is a calm time

Yes, I think the approach involves not getting sucked into the sulk. I read a good response elsewhere which was in relation to children sulking ?I notice now that you?re sulking. If you want to say something to me, figure out a better way to say it.? or ?I?m not going respond when you act this way anymore. You?re going to have to communicate differently.? And leave it at that.

The problem is that I find it difficult to keep my emotions level at the time because I find it so upsetting and stressful. I tend to feel quite ill during these times. I need to work at not letting it affect me like this because at the end of the day it is his problem, not mine. I need to work on my reaction to it. loves2walk - I had a similar holiday experience recently and it lasted 1 week!!!

Also now I've started to write all this down I can see that I not only need to address the sulking issue, but what triggers it off in the first place - for example him not respecting I have a different opinion about something or that I might not like something he does and "dare" to mention it !

Thanks to all for responding

Do you have children together atlanti?

You say he has a son - does he have this type of sulking with his son too?

Maybe write down the 'triggers' to try and give you some pattern. I find that by the time we are into an upset, for want of better term, I can't remember the very first thing that gave rise to it. Really annoying as H can then easily say it was something I did/said, and I'm not clear enough to refute this, all I absolutely know for sure is that I was happy and chirpy before it started and suddenley I'm being accused of being grumpy or snappy, when I'm merely defending my position. D'you get that?

We both have children from previous marriages - my two daughters are early twenties and I have a great relationship with them both. He has a son in his twenties and a daughter of 12. Both his daughter and son sulk. He split from the mum when daughter was 2 years old. He has her every second weekend and two weeks in the summer. We went on holiday for one week of that with the daughter and her cousin - also 12. The daughter sulked, whined, and generally portrayed every type of attention seeking behaviour possible. I was able to ignore that. But his reaction to this stress was to also sulk and try and provoke arguments with me to vent his stress rather than addressing her behaviour. I didn't rise to the bait but was SO drained after the holiday. A week to recover! I can always remember the triggers or find them out later. But he will try and rewrite history even to the point of obvious lying to turn the situation to be my fault.

You say that you are chirrpy and happy one moment then all of a sudden you are in the middle of an incident. That happens often with me and I always wonder if it's because if he is unhappy about something then I also have to be unhappy. It's also the case if he can't sleep at night - then nobody gets to sleep. All quite childish . He is due back in half an hour so I'l see how things are when he gets in !

cheers

Yes, I do understand that feeling atlanti - him bringing everyone down. I often think why can't he take my chirpiness and let it lift him, rather than bring me down to his grumpiness.

Hope your evening is OK, your holiday sounds really wearing.

Do you find when H is happy all around are happy too? I find that and then sometimes kick myself for being so biddable. I get childishly happy as he is so relaxed and kids are happy too. My H hates being told the truth - that his emotions dominate in the family - I say it too him when things are calm and he nods sadly as though that's just the way it is.

I agree with Spikey, theres no such thing as mild emotional abuse , and i wouldnt describe what he was doing as mild. Its likeley hes been behaving like this for a long time and your only just noticing it.

I also think its a mistake to look for triggers , why he does it is not your problem, nor your responsibility to solve. Nothing makes him behave like that, its a choice that he makes which is why he only does it to you , in private.

At the moment hes sulking and blocking ect, if you call him on this he MIGHT stop, but the chances are he will find other ways to continue his abuse of you , they might be so slight you wont even notice for a couple of years , or you might slowly start to desensitize. Emotional abuse ALWAYS escalates , often to violence , you cant fix it.

I believe that people CAN change. I really do.

But I think that unless people truly address their OWN issues, no one else can make them. Sometimes the truth of losing something that they desperately want can be enough to start the process of change.

These patterns of abusive and codependent behaviour are so very ingrained, that calling it a "choice" seems rather unfair.

The only thing that you can do, is completely refuse to accept it....then he has the choice. Change, with therapy and professional support, or go and sulk all by himself.

The working on yourself is a brilliant thing.

Well I had the conversation about the general sulking and lack of respect for my opinion. I talked about his behaviours towards me, giving examples and explained why they were abusive emotionally. I also said that if he wanted to be with me he would have to find a better way to communicate with me that.

Throughout this he said nothing, rolled his eyes and made faces. I pointed out that this in itself was abusive emotionally not to mention disrespectful. To be honest I couldn't keep a straight face - it was like dealing with a 5 year old.

Eventually he said "I don't know what to say". This was said in a tone indicating utter disbelief in the rubbish I was talking about. I ignored the tone and suggested that he take some time to think about what I said if he doesn't know how to respond just now.

So let's see what happens now. I certainly feel better having got it off my chest. And in a funny way he seems OK about being confronted! Meanwhile I'm concentrating on myself and developing my own healthy reactions. Thanks again for all the support.

Thanks thisishowifeel, During the next six months I need to look at my aspects of codependency - after all he wouldn't be able to affect me if I didn't let him. I'm going to look at this as an opportunity to improve myself and assess things at the end of it - unless of course something really unacceptable happens meantime. So all feedback and advice gratefully accepted. And of course the Lundy Bancroft book which should arrive in about a weeks time.

Your comment about dealing with a five year old is perceptive. ;)

If he has got stuck there, he will need a lot of professional help to start to connect to adulthood. Sadly, you are NOT the person to do this. You are too close, even if you were an expert, you would be too close.

The problem is now, that although you feel better for getting it off your chest, he probably simply doesn't "get" what you're talking about. You could be getting it off your chest for years.

I personally found the Patricia Evans books extremely helpful. Stately homes has a link to pete walker.....but it's not for the faint hearted!

atlantisun,

Note here as well that his children are both copying him. This is deeply ingrained learnt behaviour designed to get his own way he as a child likely learnt this crap from his own parents.

We learn about our relationship first and foremost from our own parents. Look what he has taught his children here - damaging lessons.

You cannot and should not be his therapist here; it won;t work and you'll be in a worse off position in the end. Your feelings count for nothing from his point of view because it is all about him.

Bet you as well he's the life and soul with his friends and does not act like this towards them; this is behaviour solely directed at you. Also abusers are very plausible to the outside world. He can control it if he wants to, he though chooses not to.

He will continue to drag you down with him if you let him do this. Do not get sucked into his sulking moods.

Your two daughters as well probably wonder what the hell you are doing with this man in the first place because you are far better than he.

EA is just that; there is no "mild" about it. It is truly insidious in its onset.

A good book on codependency within relationships is "Codependent no more" written by Melodie Beattie.

Why attila do you say that it can't be 'mild' , why does it always have to be insidious and get worse?

If atlanti makes it very clear what she will and will not put up with, and the consequences, i.e.that she will leave if it continues, then surely she needs to allow her H some time to change his ingrained behavioural patterns.

loves,

I am not the only person here to have stated that EA cannot be mild. It is insidious in its onset and creeps up on the one on the receiving end (the OP has admitted this point). I reckon as well he behaves completely differently to other people in the outside world. These people are extremely plausible to outsiders; it is only within the confines of a relationship that their true nature emerges.

And as for allowing her H some time to change his ingrained behavioural patterns, well this may not work either. You cannot undo such behaviour in 6 years, let alone 6 months. As his wife she should not be acting as her man's therapist; again she is too close to the situation to be fully effective.

Yes i get totally that she shouldn't be trying to be his therapist and changing him herself. And I think she said she realises that she herself can't change him.

But it just seems a bit bleak to think that this will always get worse and cannot be fixed in a reasonable timeframe. I just imagine people have some level of control over their emotions and so sulking/belittling etc can be controlled if a person is sufficiently motivated

I agree with attila, emotional abuse cannot be mild , it is always serious and destructive to the person its being done to.
The situation the op describes where he rolls his eyes and makes faces is typical. Its hugeley hurtfull to have a partner who refuses to listen , eventually it erodes your self esteem.

And it IS a choice , presumably he doesnt do this to his boss or anyone else. The statistics may be wrong but im sure ive read that even with support and qualified help it is very unlikeley for an abuser to change.

I suppose it depends on the stats you look at. Therapy is evolving all the time, and some of the newer methods can be highly effective.

The thing about choice is interesting. I never "chose" to be codependent! It was something that my childhood made me. I never chose to be so unhappy and invisible, with no self esteem. I just think that it is WAY more complex than that. We all temper our behaviour to match the circumstances, or the people we want to impress. It stands to reason that the people we feel most comfortable with, are the ones who get the full deal.

The main problem with people who are emotionally abusive, is that they have huge problems in accepting what they are doing and why it is wrong. Again, there are many and complex reasons for this.

These people are already such a mess, that being told they are "wrong" and "an abuser" won't go in. They can't hear it....it's too hard.

But that is not the op's problem...it is her partners problem and impacts on HIS ability to have close relationships.

I doubt that he will ever admit that he has a problem and it is unlikely he will every seek professional help. He won't even directly admit that he is wrong about small things. However I have noticed that despite strongly denying that I may be right about anything at the time, he almost always takes on board things I have said and alters his behaviour at a later date about many things. It's just he will never verbally say sorry or I'm wrong. This type of dynamics is totally draining and I wonder if in the end I will just find it all "too much like hard work".

And just to confirm what I said earlier, I don't want to change him- I want to change myself and my reactions to this type of behaviour. If things end, like they probably will, then I don't want to find myself in the same type of dysfunctional relationship again due to something in myself that attracts that. But I would rather things took their course so that I get a sense of closure.

Incidentally, when he is with his own friends who he has known for years, or his own family, he is quite opinionated - so probably a bit of a bully with them too. But then they all love debating topics. He is in charge of a few girls at work and I would imagine his is a pain in the butt of a boss!! When he is with my friends or family he is lovely, quiet polite and charming.

Lastly he has definitely got abandonment issues from childhood which he has admitted to me. His mother was inconsistent in giving him affection and often pushed him away causing him confusion as a child. But as you say I am not, and have no wish to be his therapist. I have my own life to sort out.

I intend to try and not have any expectations about how this turns out and just keep focussed on my personal development plan. So thanks for all the input.

That's interesting.

Have a look at the Pete Walker website....you may find it quite enlightening for yourself. I think it's petewalker.com

He says that the codependent and abuser behaviour comes from the same kind of place. You may have more in common than you know.

It's heavy stuff though.

There is no such thing as mild EA because of the effect it has. Abuse is abuse. I used to tell myself I was experiencing "low level" violence, slaps, pushes, only punched once etc. But this is what the abusers tell themselves, that they are a "mild" case, that they wouldn't do or say this that and the other. In truth it always escalates, as one thing becomes the norm, it's no longer enough, they require more control. So IMO the contiuuum does exist but it's progressive, not static.