Sulking and mild emotional abuse

[Atlantisun]

Hi There,

I'm new to the forum and have been reading another, older thread discussing a similar issue as my own.

There is a pattern emerging in my relationship with my partner which I now suspect to be a mild form of emotional abuse and need to control. I related to everything on the other thread and have ordered the Lundy Bancroft book recommended but several people.

Things will be going great between us then suddenly he will change, start sulking, and be in a bad mood for no apparant reason. This is done in such a way as to make me feel I have done something wrong or to annoy him. When questioned he will deny it, or be irritated that I mentioned it, or accuse me of being the one that is sulking/moody.

I may find out later that something unrelated to me has happened in his life to upset him (perhaps a problem with his son from previous marriage) and that he is projecting this onto me. Or maybe something has happened to make him feel insecure about me (perhaps a male friend making an innocent friendly comment on my facebook page).

Or it may be as simple as I don't agree with him about something. At the moment he has gone to work in the huff because I disagreed with a remark he made that I felt was inappropriate and potentially offensive about someone.

I intend to read the Lundy Bancroft book and have put a time limit of 6 months on the relationship to see how things develop (he does not know this). Then at least I will know that I have tried everything to work towards a healthy relationship . I don't expect or want to change him, but to have a relationship where there is mutual respect.

I would really like to discuss my feelings and confront him about these behaviours and thanks to all the other advice on the previous post as well as my other internet research I have a rough idea of how to approach this. However this is easier said than done. He has a tendency to interrupt so I lose my thread or he will twist everything round to place the blame on me and say that he is the one hard done by. Or he may just walk away and refuse to respond.

Or he will say things like ?Well if that's the way you feel then there is nothing I can do about it?or ?If that's the way you feel then I don't know why you are with me? This makes it nearly impossible to continue any sort of discussion.

I would greatly appreciate any further advice. Epecially in relation to how to deal with the reponses I get from him in the last paragraph that block the conversation continuing. This was not discussed in the other thread hence my own posting.

As I said before the majority of the time the relationship is fantastic so I am always taken by surprise and off guard when things change. When he is feeling better about himself again he is very loving and attentive in an unspoken attempt to make up for things. But I suspect this in itself is all just part of the emotional abuse cycle of contolling when and how often affection is handed out!

Anyway, thanks for reading.

I'm with loves - I feel a bit odd having put up with and wonder if I've encouraged it but I also agree with spikey - these things creep up on you and I also feel there are gender roles involved - it's not just about two adults.

You'd never let your friends treat you like that. Women tolerate alot more crap from men.

Hi Folks

I haven't disappeared!! Have been away all day and have to rush out again. If I don't get a chance to post late tonight I will be back online again tomorrow evening. Have been digesting all the feedback - thanks - really useful. Catch up tomorrow. xx

Part of the problem is a lot of it isnt direct is it, its belittling, ignoring, refusing to discuss things , its easy to think its you when they constantly tell you it is.

Re the comment about freinds , thats absoluteley true , i wouldnt put up with shit off my freinds , and should have applied the same standards to him. Ill apply the same standards next time though. I sometimes wonder where i got the idea that it was normal or okay to have a guy giving you shit.

My problem was that I empathised so well. My ex did have insight,was in therapy,was upfront about his emotionally abusive behaviour,and what it had already cost him.He understood why - childhood abuse,and repeatedly told me he wanted to change.

I was/am a strong feisty,outspoken woman.I am a MH professional and have some therapy training.I believe in hope and change.

We had joint therapy.We read Lundy Bancroft together.

I considered myself reasonably self aware regarding my own past stuff and codependancy issues.

I did not take him on as a project.

We had fantastic times together.

When he was "in a good place"

I held on tight to the belief that our bond ,our love,would "win".

But - over just three years - he became more and more bullying,controlling and arrogant,when "in a mood".

I posted on the NPD thread.And realised from the fantastic support and advice there,that he was emotionally abusing me and it was escalating .

It crept up gradually,despite all my insight,strength` and his supposed determination to change.

I had to give up.

Our dd was born in April.He couldn't/wouldn't stop kicking off.I asked him to leave and followed up with a solicitors letter spelling out the boundaries.

We haven't heard from him since.

I wouldn't use precious energy on a relationship like that again.
I am still exhausted.And I still "miss" the "nice" bits.
I'd say cut your losses.

My father was like this. Everything revolved around him and his mood. Everything was about him.

Every Christmas he engineered a row and disappeared into his study for three days, from Christmas Eve until my mother managed to coax him out after Christmas was all over. My mother ran around like a blue arsed fly pandering to him.

This dynamic was the defining nature of my childhood and beyond. I have since gone on to have partners who are abusive and have only recently (at 50 years old) found out what the Hell has been going on in my life.

Sadly my mother also has huge issues, and the pair of them nearly sent me to suicide.

My own children are now suffering from the fallout from this behaviour. It travels down the generations.

IMO trying to manage your partner's behaviour is a none starter. These behaviours are part of their personality, and no matter what anyone says....THEY WILL NOT CHANGE. As you have seen, they pass these behaviours onto their children, or they mess them up so much they don't know which way is up.

If you have no children with these people, RUN FOR THE HILLS. IF you do have children, still run for the hills, but try your best to mitigate the damage caused.

I have wasted my whole life so far walking on eggshells. Life is too short.

It's really sad gettingagrip to what happened to you.

If you have got yourself into a relationship with someone like that AND you have kids, this person is still going to be their parent, with the same personality flaws. But maybe they will be a better parent through being part of the family. that staying together means the children can be better shielded.

Atlanti commented that if her relationship broke down the 12yr old DSD would be the most affected.

I am not saying a person should sacrifice themselves for the children, at all, but maybe 'putting up' with some level of crap is worth it, so the kids are in a calm environment. (Even if that calm environment is as a result of a degree of pandering)

Sorry Loves2...your argument is flawed. My children are now in a calm environment, away from their father and only rarely seeing my mother.

If I had stayed in my marriage I would have killed myself. That would not have been so good for my kids!

Atlanti is not the DSD's mother. One parent who is self-aware is better than two parents who are dancing to the abuse tune.

'Putting up with some level of crap' is a highly damaging thing to do for all sorts of reasons. My sibling is very damaged, as am I, because of the level of crap to which we were exposed.

The lesson learned from one parent 'putting up with some level of crap' is that the only person that counts is them, and you are less than human, a nobody. This is training you for future relationships, where you also put up with the crap, because that is what your parent did.

I don't want my children to be 1) dishing out the crap or 2) putting up with the crap. So I left.

Certainly one of my children who I could see was on course to be the disher-outer, has improved beyond measure in the three years since I removed the malign influence from him.

Martyrdome is not good for anyone.

I can see that gettingagrip. I can see it totally. It sounds as though you have done the best thing by far for your children, without doubt. Must have taken considerable strength on your part.

Maybe it's harder to equate though, when the 'abuse' is mild, as in OPs case. Harder to weigh up just how damaging behaviours like sulking and being opinionated would be to children.

The big problem is that unless you realise what is happening, you co-operate in the dance. The dance seems normal. It IS normal, especially so if your own family as a child played to the abuse dynamic.

I danced to the tune for 50 years!!!!

There are windows in a child's development where damage can be undone. I was very lucky that the light dawned during one of those windows for my own children.

The OP has come to realise there is something wrong. I knew all my life there was something wrong. Only recently have I discovered just how wrong it was. Every single person who is subject to abuse begins by thinking that a) this is normal and b) their experiences are not as bad as others they have heard of and so what do they have to be complaining about?

There is no such thing as mild abuse. Agree, agree, agree.

Why should one person have the right to dominate another person, or a relationship?

Every single person on this earth is of value.

For a child to grow up thinking they are a nobody, not a person, is a terrible thing. They either become another abuser, or they become the abused.

If I had my time again, I would never put up with the slightest hint of any controlling behaviours, because that is what abuse is...control.

As it is I now have years of psychotherapy ahead of me, and I have no idea who the Hell I am.

My father did this.My mother also danced around him.
Her father was the same.Her mother ended up sectioned and barely functioning.
One of my brothers is the same and - surprise - has married a woman who runs around after him.

Not so surprising,then,that I met one eventually.Even though he wasn't like it to begin with.

They rarely change.in my experience.

I am so sorry, I didn't mean to make this all about me!!!

I just think it is so important to stop this going down the generations. I wouldn't wish what I have been through on my worst enemy. If my experience can help anyone at all then that is a good thing.

When people stay with an abuser and they have children, the damage continues.

I don't think I can read this anymore. I'm all screwed up inside now. I need to stick to threads on lunchbox ideas or whatever. I adore my children so much, I never realised how much love there would be inside me for them, until they came along. But not knowing what to do for the best is impossible and all consuming.

I wonder how it's going for you Atlanti after your chat? Hope my recent posts haven't taken your post off track, sorry.

'I once told him he made me have a funny throat thing when he was angry, and he told me not to be ridiculous, he'd never heard of that before. But it's real to me and never happens with anyone else. But my question though is that by backing down so readily, is my lack of assertiveness part of the problem?'

loves2...your problem is that he is denying your reality. He is not seeing you as a person in your own right. You are him, so of course he denies what you are feeling, as he is not feeling it!

It is a huge, massive shock when you see the light. Being more assertive on your part is not the problem. You can chat to these people until the cows come home. Their ears cannot hear you.

gettingagrip, I'm doing this thing that you mentioned -

'Every single person who is subject to abuse begins by thinking that a) this is normal and b) their experiences are not as bad as others they have heard of and so what do they have to be complaining about?'

I read your posts and pinemartina's and others on other threads going right now and I think, how awful that poor woman is going through (or gone through) such shit, from someone who claimed to love them.

And I 100% think my situation is so mild by comparison that I should not complain. I even think you people who have been through real, proper, serious abuse will just think I am attention seeking and trying to join in the club. AND all is going well for me now, this week, so I also imagine/hope it is all over and my H has finally changed. Then I think, well if it starts again, that's when I'll have good enough justification to call time on the relationship and put my children through the heartache of separation. But I certainly don't have that justification when he's being really sweet, funny with the kids and jolly. Who am I to piss on that parade?

I am again so sorry atlanti that I've gone on now about my situation. I do not have the emotional energy to start my own thread, but I shouldn't be using yours in this way. I did genuinely start posting on your thread becasuse I wanted to support you, so sorry.

He can still be funny with the kids and jolly if he is not your partner.

How old are your children and what do they do when he makes you have a funny throat?

And it's not you pissing on their parade. It's him.

Kids are 9 and 5. They don't notice the throat thing - noone would unless I try to drink then choke a bit. But I know not to take a drink or I consciously think about swallowing and it works fine. It's wierd, never told anyone before so not sure if it happens to anyone else.

BUT I don't think he would be jolly and fun at all with the kids if we split up. He would be so upset, maybe depressed, I don't think he would cope at all. We talked about splitting up a few months ago and he dismissed it completely. I've noticed that whenever I tell him about friends who have split, I always emphasize the positives and say how great the kids are getting on - think I'm somehow trying to soften the blow for if it ever happens??

loves

Your situation is to my mind very serious, its not at all "mild". Many women within abusive relationships do downplay such abusive behaviours meted out primarily towards them.

He would not like it either if you two were to split because he has then fully lost control over you.

As getting rightly says, "its not you pissing on their parade, its him".

What are you both teaching your children about relationships here?. They are learning an awful lot both spoken and unspoken from you both. They know more than you think, they see and hear far more than you realise.

You are NOT responsible for this man; him being "upset" if you were to split is actually not your problem. Note as well how he dismissed you yet again and out of hand when you mentioned splitting up.

I think as well that it is only when you are out of this altogether that you will realise the extent of the misery he has inflicted on you. Such men take years to recover from.

I do appreciate the comments gettingagrip and attila but cannot get past the point that I don't think my situaiton is serious or real abuse - just an arsy H.

BUT I am listening and hearing and there must be a reason for that. So I have a plan. H and I have couple phone counselling and I really rate our counsellor very highly indeed. She has cut through crap before and made my H realise something was not right when he had ignored me saying it for months.

So I have made an appointment for me and her before our next couple session, without H. I will tell her exactly how it is and see what she thinks. I just worry that exaggerate the conflict and worry that I could disrupt everyones lives - mine included - for silly little issues.

I did not grow up in an abusive household, it was very calm. But I also plan to discuss my H with my mother - I THINK she worries a bit about the little she's seen. My H is so polite and charming with them, butter wouldn't melt, so she sees my H at his best. But I know she also sees how I back down on plans if he's not happy, or explain away something, or pander to him - she's not stupid, she knows more goes on there than I let on but she has decided to keep a quiet distance. I'm going to reach out to her and get her perspective. Having her support would be huge to me.

loves

I am somewhat encouraged by what you write BUT you need to cease couple phone counselling. Couples counselling be it by phone or direct is never a good idea when there is any degree of emotional abuse within the relationship as it can give the abuser more sticks to hit his victim with. It justifies the abuse further in their own minds. Any counsellor worth their salt would never want to counsel a couple jointly where there is abusive behaviours within the relationship.

Also abusers can be very plausible to those in the outside world but your Mum has picked up on something being amiss. Hopefully she will listen properly and not go into denial of the problem you are presenting to her.

You ideally should have face to face counselling for yourself and on your own, this is one way forward for you.

Do also read "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft.

But I can't cease couple counselling, or see going alone as being part of a solution because my H doesn't listen to me, but seems to listen to external voices. So I need her to point out to him the things that he does which are wrong, double standards that sort of thing as he might appear to listen to me, but then doesn't change. Maybe on my own would be good, but I do feel I need her.

Infact I recently told him I wanted to start couple counselling again after summer break because I said 'I find it hard to talk about our relationship without this' and he said 'no you don't, I don't think you do find it hard at all'. ?? But he did say he was happy to go.

I have that book but stopped reading it as it seemed so extreme, not related to this 'mild' form of abuse at all. Thought my H came out as a saint after first para, but maybe I should read on.

loves

He's more likely than not to be playing up to the counsellor (particularly if this is all done over the phone) and telling her what she wants to hear. These people can be highly manipulative and can control sessions. It is imperative therefore that you cease joint counselling and only have sole counselling for yourself. At the very least you will be able to talk freely rather than him potentially dominating the session.
He could twist it all to make it all out to be your fault with him apparantly being blameless.

Do continue to read the book as well. Abuse is a circle and a continuous one at that; he continues to do "nice" and "nasty".

Hi Atlantis and all,
On 'mild'-I agree that there is no such thing as mild abuse.

Maybe a shift in terminology will help: substitute the word 'subtle' for 'mild'.

It is called 'Death By Ten Thousand Cuts'-these "silly-little-petty-stupid" demonstrations of degrading, rediculing, controlling, disrespect. It is a Chinese Water Torture of erosion of your self: self-esteem, identity, and ultimately mental health.

Yes, dramatic, but true because we didn't break the ice cubes out of the ice tray right or refill it with the right temperature of water, we didn't serve dc juice instead of milk, we didn't serve lunch just then when we had literally 2 sq ft of the deck left to stain, we didn't pack the trunk right for the trip, we didn't pile up the snow right from shovelling the driveway, we bought the largest container of pepper as requested even though it will last 8 years because we were told "largest" and that didn't mean the reasonable size one.

I say, imho, dismiss it at your peril. It is your life and I sincerely encourage you to not choose to severely limit your life experience.

Isn't there a book on this?

I simply didn't get the Lundy Bancroft book at all, although people do seem to get a lot out of it. I found Patricia Evans much more useful, for me personally. I also found the freedom programme helpful, but most of all, I found that facing MY OWN issues, through therapy, more particularly inner child therapy, which allowed me to come to terms with my own upbringing, has been the most valuable of all.

I think that focusing on yourself, and not him, is the most important thing for you by a long way.

I simply don't accept that people don't change. They do if they want to, and unless there is severe personality disorder or some other clinical reason why not, change and growth is entirely possible. I don't think it's a good thing to just write people off like that....maybe out of your life, but I just don't think that it is right to say that "all abusers never change" Life just ain't like that. Life is gray, not black and white.

Read the book. From what you've said he's exhibiting classic abusive behaviours. Do you really want to be with someone who dismisses your opinion then agrees with it when someone else says it? Read the book and next time he starts, feel and see. Really see him. He is an abuser, who makes you feel like you're choking. Any decent person would be horrified if they made their partner feel that way.
Since mine moved out I'm a much better parent by the way. I wasn't 100% focused on the boys before, just operating on survival mode

I changed. But I was the victim (not anymore).

Sorry, that probably wasn't helpful.