Sulking and mild emotional abuse

[Atlantisun]

Hi There,

I'm new to the forum and have been reading another, older thread discussing a similar issue as my own.

There is a pattern emerging in my relationship with my partner which I now suspect to be a mild form of emotional abuse and need to control. I related to everything on the other thread and have ordered the Lundy Bancroft book recommended but several people.

Things will be going great between us then suddenly he will change, start sulking, and be in a bad mood for no apparant reason. This is done in such a way as to make me feel I have done something wrong or to annoy him. When questioned he will deny it, or be irritated that I mentioned it, or accuse me of being the one that is sulking/moody.

I may find out later that something unrelated to me has happened in his life to upset him (perhaps a problem with his son from previous marriage) and that he is projecting this onto me. Or maybe something has happened to make him feel insecure about me (perhaps a male friend making an innocent friendly comment on my facebook page).

Or it may be as simple as I don't agree with him about something. At the moment he has gone to work in the huff because I disagreed with a remark he made that I felt was inappropriate and potentially offensive about someone.

I intend to read the Lundy Bancroft book and have put a time limit of 6 months on the relationship to see how things develop (he does not know this). Then at least I will know that I have tried everything to work towards a healthy relationship . I don't expect or want to change him, but to have a relationship where there is mutual respect.

I would really like to discuss my feelings and confront him about these behaviours and thanks to all the other advice on the previous post as well as my other internet research I have a rough idea of how to approach this. However this is easier said than done. He has a tendency to interrupt so I lose my thread or he will twist everything round to place the blame on me and say that he is the one hard done by. Or he may just walk away and refuse to respond.

Or he will say things like ?Well if that's the way you feel then there is nothing I can do about it?or ?If that's the way you feel then I don't know why you are with me? This makes it nearly impossible to continue any sort of discussion.

I would greatly appreciate any further advice. Epecially in relation to how to deal with the reponses I get from him in the last paragraph that block the conversation continuing. This was not discussed in the other thread hence my own posting.

As I said before the majority of the time the relationship is fantastic so I am always taken by surprise and off guard when things change. When he is feeling better about himself again he is very loving and attentive in an unspoken attempt to make up for things. But I suspect this in itself is all just part of the emotional abuse cycle of contolling when and how often affection is handed out!

Anyway, thanks for reading.

If your partner is still in any way blaming you for the abuse, then it?s clear that he hasn?t accepted full responsibility for what has happened, and while he?s still saying this, his behaviour is unlikely to change.

It is not impossible to change - but it is a very difficult process and is not therefore often achieved. Also such behaviours are more often than not deeply rooted, its going to take far more than an anger management course or six sessions of therapy to impliment any changes.

Telling someone in an abusive situation that there can be change in their abuser is to give them false hope IMHO.

Abusers don't change because why should they?

What's in it for them?

And I have personal experience of the manipulation of a counsellor by a partner. To say that it messes with your head is to underestimate the damage by about 1 million percent.

If someone says they will change, then they can go away and change, and leave me in peace while they do it. Then they can come back when they have changed and if they can prove they have changed, over a very long time, we may start again.

Words are cheap.

Is it the Stockholm Syndrome when the victim itentifies with the abuser...which minimizes the abuser's actions in the eyes of the victim? "Oh it wasn't that bad."

Atlantis-you wrote:
"Or he will say things like ?Well if that's the way you feel then there is nothing I can do about it?or ?If that's the way you feel then I don't know why you are with me? This makes it nearly impossible to continue any sort of discussion."

...don't ignore that. It is similar to a rotten guy confiding in his 'victim' in a small wisper voice, 'really, I am not a very nice person'. Imho, that is a moment of clarity.

?Well if that's the way you feel then there is nothing I can do about it? Of course he could do something about it, he just doesn't want to.

?If that's the way you feel then I don't know why you are with me? This is very telling-imho it is not far from: 'If that's the way you feel then you shouldn't be with me'.

It does take some time for these things to sink in, for the puzzle pieces to fit together. I would like to reiterate the earlier advice of keeping a journal of your feelings when things just are not quite right, and the 'too good to be true' moments are not really quite right either, are they?

Good luck to you, and to you, too Lovesto.

Indeed, "Lip Service". Actions speak louder than words.

Atlantisun, IF your man recognises that his behaviours are unfair AND that this probably comes from issues in his past, he MIGHT be able to make a commitment to change. I had another look at Patricia Evens's "The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change? A Woman's Guide to Deciding Whether to Stay or Go" and it made me cry ... My ex was fond of such sayings as "I am what I am, I'm not changing for anybody" - before I'd even thought of asking him to change! (Nowadays I'd see that for the warning sign it was.) So there was never any hope of sorting it out with him. Yours MIGHT be one of the optimistic few - can you tell, I'm trying not to hold out damaging hopes here??

IMO you're already taking the most constructive action possible: work through any issues of your own, develop a rock-solid sense of your own tremendous worth; then revisit the question of "Can He Change (And Can I Be Bothered With All That)?"

loves2walk - I was interested by what you said about your throat constricting in arguments. Have you ever given any thought to what might be "sticking in your throat" or "making you sick"? I'm not being funny (though it is, in a way; subconscious literals tend to sound like bad puns) ... it could be worth visiting a therapist about this one particular thing, you might learn a lot very quickly :)

Really grace? I just thought it was a sign of anxiety - like some people might have a racing heart, I get this inability to swallow. I CAN actually swallow but unless I concentrate hard on it, the water or whatever goes the wrong way, so I sort of choke/cough/all goes wrong! Is wierd, I know. Will think about that, though grace

Exactly grace. atlanisun, you may very well find that once you have addressed you own stuff, you simply won't be attracted to him anymore, or know why you ever were!!!

This is the reason I believe people can change...I did!!!! I still am!

BUT we can only be responsible for ourselves...no one else. Ever.

IF....and it is a huge if, your oh really wants to be in your life, THEN he will address his issues, properly, genuinely and with good grace. ( :) )...by which time you may well be long gone.

I just don't like writing people off.....MY issue. Apologies.

Oh and that thing about bad puns.......It's SO true!

Life tells us all we need to know, we just have to listen.

Hi Again, Just arrived in from a great day hiking and a lovely meal with a great girlfriend. My goodness - a lot more posts which I have quickly read through but still to digest. I just wanted to say to Loves2walk (perhaps a fellow hiker like myself ) that i don't think that discussing your own situation on "my thread" is in any way a problem - quite the contrary. Also i actually get that throat thing in general when I have to confront anyone about anything that makes me feel uncomfortable - from what I gather it's a fairly common thing for your throat to constrict under a bit of stress. I have lots more to say in response to everyone - the replies have almost doubled. I'm going to put a reply together tomorrow since I've had such a lovely day out with my friend and am going to chill now and put all thoughts of EA on back burner until tomorrow .

thisis....you have changed because you have self-awareness.

I have changed....I don't take any crap any more.

But the fundemental personality that you emerged into adulthood with will not change.

Abusers have no self-awareness and a huge sense of entitlement. Changing how you think and act in adulthood is a very difficult thing to do. It takes huge effort and lots of time and motivation.

Why would an abuser who has it all their own way, and feels entitled, want to put themselves through the effort involved? If their current partner/ victim sees the light and clears off there is always another one lined up behind them.

For your own mental health it is imperative to write some people off. Or at what point would you give up? Ten years down the line? Twenty? After you have been sectioned?

And for the sake of any children, the sooner the better.

Thanks again for all the input. I am taking on board everyones point of view. QS ? I see where you are coming from with your questions ?Do you need a challenge? A pet project?? This is exactly what I was like in my previous relationship with a very passive aggressive and person with different EA traits. I arrogantly thought it was my duty to ?fix? him. In the end of course I just woke up one day and the penny dropped.

I've just checked back on my Amazon history and towards the end of this relationship I already read the Melodie Beattie book recommended by Attila ? Codependant no more. Also Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward and Donna Frazier. And The Solo Partner by Phil Deluca. The Solo Partner book was the one that finally brought me to my senses.

The dynamics in this relationship are diffent. I have no interest in taking on my current partner's 
issues. I don't feel like I did with the previous relationship where I started to lose confidence and self esteem. I think partly because I have other things and people in my life to make me feel good about myself and I am grateful for that. I am not dependent on him financially or anything like that. But this also goes towards making him even more insecure and prone to acting out these behaviours. My refusal to react to his nonsense doesn't give him the feeling of control he needs so probably exacerbates the situation. He doesn't get the chance to be verbally abusive because I would cut him down immediately. So it's dealing with the subtle things like sulking, face pulling, child like behaviour etc. that really wears me down. I totally agree with toomany. Changing the teminology from mild to subtle better describes it.

The main effect this has on me is the draining effect of the stress. All the energy it takes to handle the situations and of course it is hurtful and upsetting too. Even if I take the sense of humour approach it still takes it toll.

One of the key points mentioned in the post of spikey, giveitago and gettingagrip was the lack of self awareness and huge sense of entitlement that EA have. This rings very true with me and has opened my eyes to this aspect of my partner and at this moment in time I am veering towards leaving the relationship. However I'm not in an unsafe position ? there is no violence for example. I am strong enough to sort this out in my timetable. I put the 6 month deadline because that is when our lease is due for renewal as well as my own apartment that I rent out becoming vacant again. I'm going to keep it simple ? state my boundaries and the consequences for our relationship if things continue like this.(This does not however mean that I think he will necessarily change - I'm tending to agree with those posts that state that) And I am perfectly prepared to leave sooner than 6 months, even if it is more inconvenient for me.

But this is how it worked for me the last time. I followed the advice in the solo partner book, stopped my expectations, stopped reacting, and after doing this saw him in a different light and didn't want to be with him anyway. I am aready starting to feel like this about my current partner and would like to let it run it's course to the inevitable conclusion. So that's really where I am at the moment.

What I'm still trying to get my head round is this. After my previous experience where I reacted to all the subtle provocations and let myself be dragged down and lose my confidence etc. tried to ?fix? my ex-partner and/or the relationship. I learn my lesson and have done none of these thing in this current relationship. I know he sees me a strong independant person and that is likely why he feels vulnerable and insecure. But he still projects these subtle abusive behaviours on me ? even when he sees they don't work in the way he would like. What is it that is still in me that attracts someone like that? That's what I'm going to be working on. Any any comments greatly accepted!

How about this? Because you don't just snort and walk away. You're still 'dealing with it', as if such crappiness were an inevitable part of any relationship.

Is it just me or are guys without these traits few and far between. Just about everyone I know is dealing with some sort of issue in their relationship! When you see worse behaviour in other people partners or other men it makes you more likely to question your own partners flaws - like you said Iseegraceahead - an inevitable part of any relationship. Your comment - ?you're already taking the most constructive action possible: work through any issues of your own, develop a rock-solid sense of your own tremendous worth; then revisit the question of "Can He Change (And Can I Be Bothered With All That)?" is exactly where I am at the moment

toomanystuffedbears - Your comment.. ?It is similar to a rotten guy confiding in his 'victim' in a small wisper voice, 'really, I am not a very nice person'. Imho, that is a moment of clarity.?
- a perfect analogy.

Picking up on thisishow suggestion of the peter walker site. I would class myself as codependant fawn. From what I can see on the site these behaviours can stem from an abusive childhood. I wouldn't say mine was that.

However my parents didn't have what I would considered a good relationship. My mother loved telling us how bad my dad was as a husband. Actually he was a hard working and loyal man - strict but fair. Looking back a lot of my mums comments weren't true but she liked, and still does so even more, to be the martyr, the doormat, the hard done one. She is also very confrontational with everyone. I always hated that and learnt from my dad the correct way to deal with things you were not happy about. I always wanted to be like my dad and not like my mum. So I'm a bit confused. I'm probably more like my dad and despite being aware that my mum gives my dad a hard time I'm now the one putting up with rubbish! Up until my last relationship and this one I never had any of these problems with men. I was very much - if I didn't like the way things were going I walked. So I'm trying to work out how all of a sudden I've attracted/become attracted to this type of man. Both who engineered things in a subtle manner.

It's an interesting question isn't it? Why do you attract people like that?

I know for me I have attracted partners and some friends actually who I really should have kicked into touch as soon as the first episode rears its ugly head. In the past I didn't do this. I felt that I had some sort of loyalty I suppose, and of course had been well trained by my parents to think that this was what a relationship was like.

Since I had my lightbulb moment and a total breakdown I have not had a relationship. And I have dispensed with some friends.

In my case, I am now having psychotherapy, which is supposed to be helping me to make healthy relationships, friends or otherwise. I can't ever envisage having another relationship, but I am in my early 50s with older children, so this is not really a priority, as I don't want any more children for example.

I think what I am trying to say is what Grace has just said really. At the first sniff of anything you just have to run for the hills. If the person is a good person but just had a silly moment then they will probably try to make it up to you.

On the other hand, I have absolutely no idea what I am talking about as I have no idea who I am, let alone who a potential partner might be!

Perhaps some psychotherapy might help? It is available on the NHS but you have to wait a very long time.

I tend to read anything and everything - but then you get conflicting opinions. My saving grace is my friends - and like you I am now more selective. I'm also in my early 50's but have to admit I am person who likes to be in a relationship - I always have. I blame it on me being a Libra and my ruling planet Venus lol! And even with the past 2 bad relationship I always had my independence. I It's just the last 10/15 years when everything has gone a bit pear shaped. I also have a few very good male friends so manage to get on OK with them - so think I'm in touch with male perspectives. Oh well I suppose life in itself is a journey of learning about ourselves and we just have to try and work out what lesson we should be taking from all of this with a view to improve ourselves.

Yes it's that old thing about being your own best friend and making your own happines before you get into relationships and rely on another to make you happy.

In my case I am happy on my own, as all my partners have ever done is bring me down. I marvel at the women who achieve great things and have their partners behind them. I can't imagine what that must be like. Not having someone just waiting for you to fall flat on your face, so they can crow about it. Having someone who says 'let's do whatever...'.

I need to widen my circle now, as I worry about when the kids finally leave and I am on my own. I work at home too , so don't really meet anyone new.

You sound as though you have your head screwed on though. And you sound like a lovely person too. But that's what nice people do...give others the benefit of the doubt...but now we know that this has not to be at the expense of our own mental health.

Their issues are for them to sort, not us.

Lol, we should form a club. How about "the broken down & fighting fifties lightbulb club"? Nah, doesn't exactly trip off the tongue does it!

Thing is, Atlantis, people write to forums like this when they've got problems. In the ordinary run of things, happy couples get pissed off with each other over small irritations - they're not subjected to steady emotional batterings, large or small. It's NOT normal. But, like Gettingagrip, I realised that only the men I chose but the majority of my friends were emotionally unbalanced & manipulative. Therefore I thought most people were like that, iyswim. My own ishoos coloured my whole world - unfortunately.

Now and again, somebody posts here after experiencing their partner's first abusive move - uses the replies to get perspective on it - then chucks the bloke out, dusts herself off and thanks her stars for a narrow escape. I believe that's what healthy, confident people do

Sorry to drag an old thread out but Atlantisun, can I ask..where are you now with this relationship?

.

If she's still with him, by now I doubt she'd be allowed to access Mumsnet..

Why would you even want to indulge this man child if you don't have to? he's not your son and you don't have children with him. Why on earth put all the work in to someone who isn't going to change? < and deep down, you know this. He might modify some of his behaviours when he can be arsed but he will always revert to type >

aaaghhhh