she wants to leave - any advice please

[saddad1]

Hello, I was hoping that I might be able to get some advice from a women?s point of view. My wife of 10 years is leaving me, she says that she has been unhappy for a long time and that although she has tried to tell me, I haven?t been listening. We have 2 young children between 3 and 5 and I am so worried and sad about what life will be like for them, for my wife and for me. Currently I work full time and she stays at home with the children, we have a decent home, good friends and enough money that we get by without struggling. I admit that I have been very selfish in our relationship, I do a lot of extra activities football 6 hours a week, going to the pub with other dads once a month and I have a volunteer position which means that I am on call in the evenings and one day per weekend. She does not have any external hobbies but normally goes out with her old school friends for a blow out once a month. All these activities mean that we don?t spend much quality time together and to be fair, when we do we don?t really communicate and a lot of the spark we had is gone, much of this I think has to do with the both of us becoming a bit complacent in our relationship. I know that we have been unhappy for a while but I didn?t realise that things had got to this point for her until about 8 weeks ago when she first said that she was thinking about leaving - it has gone from bad to worse since then with many tears, I realised about 10 weeks ago that I had been pushing her to far with trying to save money (I made up a budget based on how much I spend a month and gave her the same amount), and making her feel that she didn?t have the right to spend money (these are her words not mine as I never realised that I was making her feel that way ? she had mentioned that she felt that way before but I tried to tell her that I didn?t feel that way and thought she understood that), and was trying to mend the problem before she told me how she was feeling. She also says that she never really felt like I loved her as much as she loved me which is not true. Intimacy has never been an issue ? but not as frequent as I would have liked and she says that I have made her feel obligated at times due to her being stay at home mum ? this is your duty type of thing and because it is a lot less frequent than I would like I can see how my sometimes negative comments about it would seem like that. I have a few bad habits such as smoking and drinking to excess every now and then (ironically a lot more now during all this ? it doesn?t help the situation), even when she has been out and I am looking after the children and I know that there are more points of my personality which she doesn?t like, I have in the past made some terrible decisions and have been a very mean and selfish person ? but these are slips in our relationship not the norm, I have never cheated on her and I am not abusive. I am a good father and provider and a decent person and not that bad of a husband ? a husband who is at least willing to change. She also says that she still loves me (and always will as we have a beautiful family together) and likes me, she is just not in love with me and her heart says that in order for her to be happy she know she has to be on her own with the children, unfortunately for me I am still completely in love with her and love our family. Although she would never deny me any time with the children I cant help feeling this will be a horrible experience for them and us as a family and although I know my weaknesses and faults I am willing to change them in order to keep us together and although some of them have been around for a lot of years and i have known she doesnt like certain things - i havnt made any real effort to change all of them, but some of them i have for her and for the family, unfortunately she says there are just too many things that would have to change and it is too little too late, and that she has never wanted to change me - how can you not want to change someone but still want them to be a different person? I am willing to do anything to keep the family together and I know that if she leaves she will have to move into a flat, probably in a not very nice area with not very nice schools or people - all of this cannot be better for the children then being in a home with both parents who (although one half is miserable), have a strong foundation to build on and surely the feelings can return with a bit of hard work - cant they? She says her career has been put on hold due to the children and that she wants her independence back and wants to be closer to her family - I have explained that she can have all these things and I am willing to move (as she hates where we live due to her family being 30 miles away and the lack of good schools in the area ? I have never wanted to move as it would mean sacrificing on space, money and giving up a lot of my things ? and our friends), help get her career back on track and try to give her space - anything really. I realise that a lot of my actions (or lack of them), have led to this point but as it wasn?t staring me in the face until now I didn?t do anything to change it, however, she keeps saying that now it?s too late. She says that I can have the house and that it would be a good idea to keep it so the children have a home to come to when they visit me, also it is not worth selling it as we would be lucky to break even. She has no money to move out with so is going to go on benefits and with maintenance from me as she cant afford to go back to work until our youngest is school age. I have said that I will not help her leave me, as I am not ready to give up on our relationship how can I? I completely love her and think that she is an amazing person, I cant see life without her and at the same time I cant see not being there in the mornings to kiss my children goodbye and not being there every night to kiss them goodnight - I know that these things are also a bit selfish - but are surely worth fighting for. When someone gets to this point can they be swayed, what else can I do to make her realise this is a huge mistake? All those times that she suggested something and I just put it down to being a bad idea or nagging ? were those the times when I needed to change my behaviour? How can it be possible for someone to think that the family would benefit more from being apart and living on the dole then being together as a family and trying to work things through? What can I do to show her?
Sorry for the long post, first time user and I didn?t realise how this would just keep going once I started writing it down.
Any thoughts or opinions (try not to be too harsh) are appreciated.

Write your OP again, only this time put it in paragraphs - it will make for easier reading. Ta

My eyes!!!

I must admit I read about half of this, but from what I did read it is very clear that you do have started to understand things from her side :-)

Maybe If you explain to her that you now realise where you were being selfish and that you are desperate to change and are willing to get professional help, such as marriage guidance, in order to achieve this she might give you a second chance?

I really hope so because I tell how much you love her :-)

The thing that struck me about your post is the rather large number of 'I's. A lot of things in your relationship seem to revolve around you and your needs - rather than operating as a partnership.

I'm a mother of three and have a husband who works away a lot and has, to everyone's cost, put his work/social life before us as a family.

He moved out recently at my request as I wasn't prepared to put up with it any longer.

Ultimately we both realised that we had both made mistakes and that we wanted to make our marriage work but it has involved a lot of sacrifice and renegotiation - mostly on his part.

It's good that you have recognised that you have been quite selfish in putting your own needs first. Being a stay at home mother changes your relationship completely and take it from someone who knows you do often feel obliged to make up for being unable to contribute financially in other ways, whether that's sex or cleaning or doing everything else around the house. And putting your own needs last.

Frankly if anyone moves out then it should be you. If you do separate then it's important for the children to remain in the home they've grown up - they will need that consistency and security if their parents are going to separate.

I think you both need to take some time to think about your option and not rush into making any hasty decisions. It does sound as if there's some hope - provided you do mean everything you say - and I would recommend that you contact Relate and arrange to talk to someone non-judgemental, someone impartial who will be able to help, support and listen to both points of view.

Hmm - well she has been trying to tell you quite how unhappy she is and you haven't been listening or taking her seriously, have you?

So it is a bit late, though I can appreciate that this is a shock for you.

Usually, when someone has got to this stage then they're not interested in mending anything about the relationship as they have had quite enough.

YOu could suggest counselling to her, then she might she that you are taking it seriously and are willing to change...
...even then, it's not a quick fix. You've broken her trust and abused her patience, so she might not believe you, even if you turn into husband of the year.

Don't know, really. Sorry not too helpful, but you do sound a bit of a nightmare and tbh, I think she's doing the right thing.

Hi Saddad.
Okay. There was a mummy on here the other day saying her dh wasn't paying attention, living life of a single bloke and not joining in with family life as much as he should etc. Not saying that was your DW posting but the replies were good so you could have a browse in the relationships threads to see if you can find it. Someone said that they gave their dh an ultimatum and it made him realise just what he'd been like/what he should be doing more of.

It sounds to me though, that you know where your problems lie and it appears to me as though she's giving you the chance to change. She ahs told you she still loves you and although she said she's leaving, it's up to you I reckon, to show her just how much you want her to stay.

It sounds like this can potentially be fixed but you can't just nchange for a few weeks or months; you need to change BIG TIME and stick to it. She sounds like she's resenting you a lot; you go out, spend money on fun things, go to work and have a great time all round generally whereas she is a SAHM with chores, the kids 24/7 and not much else. You seem to be living the life of a single guy and it's time to man up and put the fizz back into your relationship. someone in a celeb mag said recently that her and her husband get away to a posh hotel every so often to remind each other why they made children together! She said it was what kept their relationship alive as a couple and not simply as a mum and dad.

Try to get friends or relatives to have the children this weekend and show her that you can change and your whole can change. Chat to her about finding a job she likes and which inspires her. As a SAHM myself, I get regulalry bored with the mundane life that is housework and child rearing and although that might sound mean, women today need to use their brains for things other than recipe reading and how much florr cleaner to use!

As my aunt and uncle split up, mainly because of similar reasons to you; he never took them on holiday, came home from work and pretty much ignored the kids, wasn't romantic with her when he should have been etc, they split up and divorced. However, apart from the odd partner here and there, they still love each other and regularly 'meet up' and basically live as a couple but apart. I think they both regret it and things may have been different if mumsnet had existed then!

It sounds as though your relationship can be saved but you're going to need to show her you really mean it......and not just with some extra sex!

I've read a bit more, that you will not help her to leave you. I do totally understand why you are saying that to her, but I really think that to show her how much you want her you should go out of your way to help her and make it as easy as possible, if you don't she will resent you and you will defintely have no chance of reconcilliaton.

If I am really honest, it sounds as though she has met someone else ...... Otherwise, if you were offering to move house, encourage her career, give her more time to herself, go to counselling (?) and basically try to change, then I think she would at least give it a trial period before deciding its definitely over.

Ultimately though, whatever her reasons, you can not make someone change their mind. You have to try your best to ensure your children are affected as little as possible. It is entirely possible for children of divorced parents to be very happy, if the parents handle it properly.

Perhaps ask your wife whether she would be willing to give relationship counselling a go for, say, 3 months ? If she refuses, you do have to accept there is nothing you can do and you need to start discussing the practicalities of access arrangements, living arrangements etc. It sounds as though she is putting her needs first for the first time in 10 years and she shouldn't be made to feel guilty if that is what she has decided.

I'm sure others will be here soon but as NinaJane said, if you pop some paragraphs in, it will make it must easier to read and you'll get more response

I have managed to read it all through.

Good of you to see your shortcommings, but I admire your wife for noy having a breakdown sooner.

With your 6 hours of footy a week, weekend and night volunteering, occasional excessive drinking - when did she have time to relax?

and on top of that you being stingy with money - now wonder she has had enough.

Actions speak more than words - what have you done so far in 8 weeks gone to change?

List it please in bullet points.

Look for Relate - they do email councelling which is likely to be available quicker than waiting for the place

She is not happy,i think it has took you to long to realise she is not in love with you anymore, once it's gone i don't see how anyone can get it back.

'you are not ready to give up'

'you will not help her move'

'you gave her the same budget as you'

'you have hobbies'

Sounds to me like your still selfish.

tillyscoutsmum, i don't agree, i think shes just had enough. to be honest it doesn't sound like she has time to meet new people.

saddad1 please do not accuse her of seeing someone else

"Hello, I was hoping that I might be able to get some advice from a women?s point of view.

My wife of 10 years is leaving me, she says that she has been unhappy for a long time and that although she has tried to tell me, I haven?t been listening. We have 2 young children between 3 and 5 and I am so worried and sad about what life will be like for them, for my wife and for me.

Currently I work full time and she stays at home with the children, we have a decent home, good friends and enough money that we get by without struggling. I admit that I have been very selfish in our relationship, I do a lot of extra activities football 6 hours a week, going to the pub with other dads once a month and I have a volunteer position which means that I am on call in the evenings and one day per weekend. She does not have any external hobbies but normally goes out with her old school friends for a blow out once a month.

All these activities mean that we don?t spend much quality time together and to be fair, when we do we don?t really communicate and a lot of the spark we had is gone, much of this I think has to do with the both of us becoming a bit complacent in our relationship. I know that we have been unhappy for a while but I didn?t realise that things had got to this point for her until about 8 weeks ago when she first said that she was thinking about leaving.

It has gone from bad to worse since then with many tears, I realised about 10 weeks ago that I had been pushing her to far with trying to save money (I made up a budget based on how much I spend a month and gave her the same amount), and making her feel that she didn?t have the right to spend money (these are her words not mine as I never realised that I was making her feel that way ? she had mentioned that she felt that way before but I tried to tell her that I didn?t feel that way and thought she understood that), and was trying to mend the problem before she told me how she was feeling.

She also says that she never really felt like I loved her as much as she loved me which is not true. Intimacy has never been an issue ? but not as frequent as I would have liked and she says that I have made her feel obligated at times due to her being stay at home mum ? this is your duty type of thing and because it is a lot less frequent than I would like I can see how my sometimes negative comments about it would seem like that.

I have a few bad habits such as smoking and drinking to excess every now and then (ironically a lot more now during all this ? it doesn?t help the situation), even when she has been out and I am looking after the children and I know that there are more points of my personality which she doesn?t like, I have in the past made some terrible decisions and have been a very mean and selfish person ? but these are slips in our relationship not the norm, I have never cheated on her and I am not abusive.

I am a good father and provider and a decent person and not that bad of a husband ? a husband who is at least willing to change. She also says that she still loves me (and always will as we have a beautiful family together) and likes me, she is just not in love with me and her heart says that in order for her to be happy she know she has to be on her own with the children, unfortunately for me I am still completely in love with her and love our family.

Although she would never deny me any time with the children I cant help feeling this will be a horrible experience for them and us as a family and although I know my weaknesses and faults I am willing to change them in order to keep us together and although some of them have been around for a lot of years and i have known she doesnt like certain things - i havnt made any real effort to change all of them, but some of them i have for her and for the family, unfortunately she says there are just too many things that would have to change and it is too little too late, and that she has never wanted to change me - how can you not want to change someone but still want them to be a different person?

I am willing to do anything to keep the family together and I know that if she leaves she will have to move into a flat, probably in a not very nice area with not very nice schools or people - all of this cannot be better for the children then being in a home with both parents who (although one half is miserable), have a strong foundation to build on and surely the feelings can return with a bit of hard work - cant they? She says her career has been put on hold due to the children and that she wants her independence back and wants to be closer to her family - I have explained that she can have all these things and I am willing to move (as she hates where we live due to her family being 30 miles away and the lack of good schools in the area ? I have never wanted to move as it would mean sacrificing on space, money and giving up a lot of my things ? and our friends), help get her career back on track and try to give her space - anything really. I realise that a lot of my actions (or lack of them), have led to this point but as it wasn?t staring me in the face until now I didn?t do anything to change it, however, she keeps saying that now it?s too late.

She says that I can have the house and that it would be a good idea to keep it so the children have a home to come to when they visit me, also it is not worth selling it as we would be lucky to break even. She has no money to move out with so is going to go on benefits and with maintenance from me as she cant afford to go back to work until our youngest is school age.

I have said that I will not help her leave me, as I am not ready to give up on our relationship how can I? I completely love her and think that she is an amazing person, I cant see life without her and at the same time I cant see not being there in the mornings to kiss my children goodbye and not being there every night to kiss them goodnight - I know that these things are also a bit selfish - but are surely worth fighting for. When someone gets to this point can they be swayed, what else can I do to make her realise this is a huge mistake?

All those times that she suggested something and I just put it down to being a bad idea or nagging ? were those the times when I needed to change my behaviour? How can it be possible for someone to think that the family would benefit more from being apart and living on the dole then being together as a family and trying to work things through? What can I do to show her?
Sorry for the long post, first time user and I didn?t realise how this would just keep going once I started writing it down.
Any thoughts or opinions (try not to be too harsh) are appreciated."

Giving up football to literally one club a week would show her you mean it.

Book her into a spa for a weekend whilst you have the kids.

Tell her you would like to try counselling.

Ask her whether she would like to go back to work and if so, what kids of thing would she be interested in doing?

Listen to everything she tells you.

I agree that if, after telling you she still loves you, she doesn't want to stay together, then she has perhaps met someone else............couldn't blame her though.

RonansMummy - you may well be right and saddad - I really don't think you should accuse her of anything. I'm just speaking from personal experience. Obviously everyone is different and the OP's wife does sound like she has had a lot to put up with for a long time.

'She also says that she still loves me (and always will as we have a beautiful family together) and likes me, she is just not in love with me'

I think it's too late.

No don't accuse her of anything.

The poor woman she wants to leave why do people always jump to the conclusion that the other person is having a affair?

Maybe she just wants to be happy, is that so hard too believe?

No wonder she fell out of love with you (what with the work, friends, volunteering,football and pub) she has probably forgotten what you look like. On top of that you presented her with a budget (whilst spending plenty on booze, hobbies and fags) to stick to and guilted her into having sex.

She tried to tell you all of this but you were gambling on the "she wouldn't want to be a single mum" theory. The only mystery is why she didn't leave you sooner.

You could suggest seeing Relate. It may or may not work.

Or you could have used the last 8 weeks into changing. Instead you have been smoking and drinking more.

None of us know your wife, she might be trying to shock you or she may have made her mind up. Time will tell.

You need to concentrate on being a good father and putting more effort into them too.

Everything in your post has either been about what you want, or an excuse for why she hasn't had what she wants.

She is an unhappy stay at home mum, with a husband who has kept her on a stingy budget, made demands for sex that make her feel uncomfortable, goes out all the time, and onb the rare occasion she gets to go out, he drinks and smokes while he's in charge of the children.

She lives in an area she hates and has not been listened to when she says she needs to be closer to her family.

"How can it be possible for someone to think that the family would benefit more from being apart and living on the dole then being together as a family and trying to work things through? What can I do to show her?"

She lives with a man who really doesn't care how unhappy she is as long as he gets to have what he wants. That's you, in case you are too blinkered even now to understand that your bvehavior has been making her miserable.

Unfortunately, as you've admitted yourself, you have a track record of not listening, of bulldozing over her needs, her feelings, her wishes and opinions. Every sentence in your post is about what YOU want, what YOU need, what YOU think should happen. I I I me me me.

You've had ten years to show her you love her, appreciate her and cherish her and instead you've treated her as a domestic servant. Seeing someone else? No, not a chance. She has had enough. She doesn't even want to contend for the house? That is the final act of an exhausted woman who give anything to end the situation they are in.

OPEN YOUR EYES. She is desperately unhappy and all you can think of is finding ways to manipulate her into staying in a situation where she is unhappy.

thats great colditz!

in answer to your questions:

1. yes these were the times that you needed to listen, why would she need to "nag" if you listened to her. If it wasn't important she wouldn't have needed to repeat it so often.

1. yes these were the times you needed to change your behaviour, or explain your valid reasons for not, and her agreeing with it.

1. Happiness is worth more than money.

1. Go out of your way to support her and LISTEN TO HER. This is obviously something she has to do, as you've pointed out it will be really hard, so not something she would do unless she had to. Try your best to make it easier and she will see that you are putting her first for once and that is a big change from you, and she should appreciate that.

:-)

Try Relate.

'You've had ten years to show her you love her, appreciate her and cherish her and instead you've treated her as a domestic servant. Seeing someone else? No, not a chance. She has had enough. She doesn't even want to contend for the house? That is the final act of an exhausted woman who give anything to end the situation they are in'.

Well said!!!

Eugh - you smoke around the kids?

Nuff grounds for divorce...

LISTEN TO HER AND RESPOND.

ASK HER how she is feeling.

TELL HER YOU ARE SORRY. And don't just say "Tell me how you want things to change", take ownership of your failings and faults and tell her what changes you will make immediately. Seriously, 6 hours of football a week? Being on call every evening and one day at weekends? Those combined are a full-time operation, never mind working full-time as well.

Consider: How would you feel if the situation was reversed and it was your wife working f/time, plus all the extra-curricular activities? What would you want in the way of change?

It's good that you're seeking help and advice now, but you need to learn to listen to and understand your wife by yourself, so that if you can get through this together, things won't get so bad again.

Consider this: It's easy to see what's most important in someone's life as it's what they spend most of their time doing. It would appear from your post that you spend the least possible amount of time with your wife and family, and I would therefore assume that they matter least to you. Your wife has responded to your current priorisation of putting her and your family last. Change your priorities.

Arrange for some counselling sessions for you and your wife together. Don't just say that's what you want, actually arrange them.

The overwhelming theme in you OP, SadDad is that you have made the mistake of arrogantly assuming you know best throughout your relationship.

It appears that your wife has attempted to voice her views over various issues only to be told that she's wrong, time and again.

She is a person first, her status as your wife is second to that. Where have you given her respect and autonomy as an individual?

Let her go! You have stated that you aren't going to help her leave you? I think you should do all you can to enable her choice. Respect her decision, be a bigger person.

I don't think it's too late but you need action, lots of it...fast,. Give up football and the volunteering until your wife has enough going on in her own life not to notice. I am rather curious about the controls on money, you said you each had the same amount....to spend on what? Was her money for her and the dcs and yours for you?

You need to invest more into your family than you do in yourself and outside hobbies.

Take a few days off, compassionate leave and give your wife a holiday from her full time 24/7job. I would suggest a spa day or something (for her on her own), let her have some time to sort out her own mind.