statley homes thread - dysfunctional families

[Mummiehunnie]

I had a look back and could not find the old thread, for adult children who grew up in unhealthy dysfunctional families, and were abused as a result!

Oops sorry have I killed the thread? Just re read my last post and it does sound pathetic!! Any way as I said it is great to know I am not alone. I have read Toxic Parents and When you and your Mother cant be Friends, does anyone have any other suggestions?

Hello Kate, Tipsy, SAF& M44 :) It is, as thisis says, incredibly helpful to read others' posts. Your take on something can easily cast new light for someone else - and often does.

I'm in a heck of a trough at the moment and don't know whether to "buck up & muddle through" or carry on reading psychology books, making notes and letting everything else go to pot! I'm also going through an inevitable phase of wondering if I'm wrong about my sibs - am I cutting off my nose to spite my face? Oh, I know the answer :( I'm not cutting anything off, actually. We have limited & superficial contact; it's been this way for ages. I'm grieving for the sparkly, pretty, permanent backdrop I believed my life enjoyed. It's not really there. I turned down a family visit with my mum today, though. I'm sad about it, but know it was the right thing.

Thinking about sparkly & pretty: are there any transactional script analysts here? I'm re-reading Eric Berne because I really want to know what my script says - and how to break out of it! I think I've identified a recurring 'scripty dream'.

It comes in many versions, but basically involves an alien invasion where the aliens are extremely appealing (they're often like iridescent bubbles, but that's probably irrelevant.) They take over the human race by persuasion, and end up either eating or enslaving everyone. I am one of a few rebels. By the end, I'm alone or nearly alone, and without resources. My only choices are to give in & be subsumed, or to slowly starve, alone in the wilderness.

Starving alone in the wilderness is an accurate metaphor for the way I am now. My parents were inverse snobs: very 'us & them', proud of being working class but somehow better than everyone else. Mum lives according to the rules of "Making Ends Meet" and so do I, at present. Before my crisis, I was a pretty bubble - successful - but never felt I fitted in anywhere properly.

How the hell do I break out of this?? Any insights, clues or tips, please? Honestly, I don't care how hard it is (I'm playing "Look How Hard I Try"!), I need to do it. My 'scripted' lifespan is a lot longer than you'd think of a chain-smoker with faulty life skills. I don't want another 30 years stuck in this limbo.

As you can see, people, I'm not in a good place to offer feedback on your posts ... sorry.

I wonder if physically, either with pen and paper, or on you computer, re writing a new script, and adding pictures to be coloured in would help?

It can be what you want it to be, with the people you want. You could take a long time to do it. It would be you and yours.

TA is all about consciously changing ourselves in each given scenario I think, learning to stay in the appropriate place, adult, child, parent, and being aware enough to do that. And getting and giving strokes as required? I think....not read any of this stuff for a long time.

Re write "you" and your script, the world you want to live in, meditate on it, make it real??

I'm struggling today too...I don't know why.

xx

There are two sides to me.....everyone sees a lovely, caring, competant mum who wants the best for her children and is seen to encourage them and nurture them....not in a controlling way,a loving way.

Inside a little bit more of me dies everyday-I constantly question everything I do...that is the norm for me. I struggle deeply with relationships and constantly question those around me...a protective mechanism I suppose. I don't like this me- I prefer the other me. I am really down at the moment-mainly because it is the holidays and certain relations expect certain things. My eldest dd voted with her feet and opted to meet a friend insead of coming out with us....good move I say,as certain people were there. My friends feel distant at the moment-it is hard to trust and talk at a deeper level.

Sorry.

Thank you, lovely :)

Yes, it may be getting to me more than it should because I'm so bleedin' isolated! Berne said somewhere that we all have thousands of 'transactions' a day - I'm lucky if I get a hundred, and that's counting Mumsnet. Bugger, I'm not getting any practice!

If we know anything, you and I, it's "this too shall pass". And there's nothing wrong with chocolate :) xx

M44 - sorry? For what? It takes remarkable honesty to know yourself like that.

Would you feel better if you write something about the certain people with expectations? Are they your parents? Sisters/brothers?

The visit I declined, today, was to a favourite aunt of mine. She was kind to me as a child, and perceptive about my parents' relationship. Now I 'hear' so much more acutely, I've become aware of her controlling nature - she undermines her daughter & lionises the son - so I feel very torn between a lifetime's loyalty to her and intense dislike of her mentality ... par for the course at the Stately Home, I suspect

hello sorry to post and run, will try and catch up with posts tonight when Dcs are in bed. Just wanted to post another link here
Very powerful words and incredibly validating for those who have gone NC or are contemplating doing so.

xxTRS

Scripty dream update: The script IS the dream. Duh, me! I don't have to find a way to avoid being consumed or exiled, I just have to find a way NOT to look at life like this :)

That was probably obvious to everyone else ...

trsmithfield, thank you for that link. It's perfect. Says it all for me.

My mum "needs" me to be addicted. And, hey, look at me, I'm a chain-smoking alcoholic with a 'dependency' on prescription ADs.

As soon as I told the Priory doctors my mother was waiting in my flat for me to get home, they asked me how much longer I needed to stay in, so she'd have to go home. They'd seen through her, then I manage my drinking successfully now; Mum harangues me about it, but she blew her chance to interfere when she showed up at the clinic.

I flatly refused to let her know better than my doctors about the ADs. This leaves smoking, and of course all smokers are now duty-bound to let anybody who wants to have a go at them. Mum's offered, several times, to have me back at hers (NOOOO!!!) - and lock me in while I go cold turkey from the fags. She describes this in gleeful detail: it's the description of a junkie in sudden withdrawal, but pointing that out doesn't shut her up.

Thinking about it, she's wanted to do this "for me" since my mid-teens. When I was not addicted to anything. She's now started telling my sister she's an alcoholic ...

Well, this is turning out to be a big day for the inside of my head!

I don't plan on packing in the smoking or the meds anytime soon - but I expect the knowledge that I'm being "addicted" for my mother will make it a whole lot easier when I do.

I don't know why, but I am really struggling today. I have been tearful all day. I feel sick with grief for everything that has happened to me, especially over the last twelve months.

Maybe it's just that...everything is reaching some kind of first anniversary and I have been through too much really.

I have faced things head on, taken on board the truth, sought help, separated from my h, broken contact with my familly, and the summer hols mean that I don't have daily contact with the support system that I would normally have.

I think that the freedom programme facilitator's reaction to the tales of cancer and the "coincidental" exact same scenario happening, has completely freaked me out. If true, and there is no way of knowing, it means that h is utterly twisted and evil. I have faced many hard things head on this last year, but if thatturns out to be the case, then I feel sick to the core. If true, he doesn't need therapy, he needs locking up.

grace, is your mother an addict then? Is she projecting her stuff?

grace so your mother is addicted to drama in her Dcs lives (fabricated will do) in order to detract from her own ishoos.
Whilst you subconciously create some real life dramas in order to appease/get her attention?
I reckon this is where my instinct to fail/self sabotage comes from.
Sigh we are like moths to the flame aren't we.

thisis sorry you are struggling.
I think I see a pattern for posters on this thread where anyone who is having a bad day, including myself feels desperately bad about it.
As if we shouldnt have them when rationally we are entitled to feel these emotions.
They are not necessarily bad feelings or negative, just raw and difficult to deal with.
I woke this morning with anxiety/panic in my stomach. I HATE this feeling and am beginning to realise how much I reproach myself for feeling this way. I can barely believe that I have only just begun in ernest notice how I beat myself up for it.

Oh and the sun glasses completely vanishing from the car. I know I'd put them, with my reading glasses in the storage bit between the driver and passenger seats on the way home on Friday. And then they vanished. As did my road map that I'd bought on the way to London. I believe that he disposed of them, and in typical gaslighter fashion, tried to make out that there was something wrong with my memory.

He also asked if there was something wrong with my mouth....the desire to check that there was nothing wrong in a mirror was overwhelming, but I didn't and simply said that I knew that he was merely trying to wrongfoot me and we both knew perfectly well there was nothing wrong. That that was what men like him did, and he clearly had a long way to go.

Jeez,no wonder I'm exhausted.

Yes, thisis, no wonder. I, for one, am awestruck by your resolve, intelligence & speed of progress! As you say, you've been doing it for a year solid - and we do need down time, for the feelings to process themselves. I've also noticed that, when a Stately Homer goes down, there's usually a major step forward in the offing. It's logical. We don't expect children, or anyone else, to learn in an unbroken upward trajectory - we understand they also need play time, down time and rest to help their learning 'take'. We're just very bad at giving ourselves the same understanding!

Nurture yourself. It's okay, it's necessary and it's healthy :)

You seem to have covered as much ground in one year as I have in ten! And, yes, he is that mad. You know he is, really, don't you? Ugly though it is, to stare and to see. Take a quick look, then file your knowledge somewhere useful.

smithfield, you got my mother in one.

There was a chart on the wall in one of the Priory's family rooms, showing characteristic behaviours of an addict. I manoeuvered Mum into a position where she'd see it; she said "That's just like Dad, isn't it?" It was. My dad wasn't a substance abuser - he was addicted to control and to violence (he was a sadist.) The addict behaviours - rages; changes; wild accusations; blaming; etc, etc - simply were life in our family. It was never dull, haha ... in fact, if it ever threatened to be dull, Dad would have a rage about that.

Mum found it exciting. Stimulating. Sexy, even. All of us DCs grew up to be "edgy" and exciting. However sane we variously become, I don't think any of us will lose our love of extreme sports, theme-park rides, and trying something new. Mum has a nice life now - the one she's always wanted. And she has me (mainly) to provide the vicarious thrills of addiction, even if she has to make them up.

Re-reading Berne's WDYSAYSH yesterday, I understood whole layers of it that escaped me the first time I read it, several years back. I realise that one of her scripts for me is "You'll end up an addict, sick & alone in a filthy room!" It's astonishing how well I have fulfilled this prophecy, without the aid of crack.

Scripts I've identified, and wish to rewrite:

1] "You'll never become One Of Them (the successful people) because We're Different. But you'll die if you don't."

2] "You'll end up an addict, sick & alone in a filthy room!"

3] I must be good at "Making Ends Meet".

4] I must Try Hard and Do My Best, but My Best Isn't Good Enough (so Must Try Harder).

5] Hard Work Brings Its Own Rewards, but see [1] and [4] above. Also, Only Fools Think Hard Work Brings Rewards ("see how hard Dad works, and how little he gets?")

6] If I have children, I'll be happy. But children are a burden, and make your life miserable.

There's something going on here - my transition from 'success' to 'failure' has coincided with menopause for a reason. Still very about this one. Like many successful people, I was aware of a strong element of sticking a finger up at my parents in my motivation. I'm extremely wary of the 'you cause your own illness' school of thought - but wonder if my PCOS was an unconscious insurance against having children (and ending up like Mum)? Less mumbo-jumbo-ish: PCOS is know to be connected with anorexia. And anorexia is known to be connected with unwelcome sexual maturity. So maybe ... ?

IIRC, Berne has a chapter on female fertility & menopause, so will visit these questions after I've read it!

Aargh. My brain hurts

Hello everyone.Glad to have found this thread again.Just read it through.Huge respect and gentle wishes to all.

Am in tears after the two links from smithfield.Really stirred up.Absolutely spot on.

I am soldiering on,rather emotionally contained as I can't risk collapsing into my underlying feelings.

Absolutely no contact whatsoever from xp since 12 May. Yes I know that is lucky and a good thing.But the "buts" cut me up.Cant affirm them by writing in here.Sure you know what I mean.

Am spectacularly successful - currently- at "mmm","what" and "really" with my hideous parents.To the extent that - with no supply from me - their duty visit contact with dc amounts to a brief picnic lunch about once a month,during which mother grimaces and can barely mutter strange little remarks about nothing - the weather,soup.She barely notices baby dd and pointedly ignores me.

The fallout from these successful outcomes - I know they are,but... - is ,I suppose,grief.

Is that what it is? Numbness.Sadness that I daren't dabble in too much.Dreams without images,only gut wrenching feelings,where I wake up in tears.

But,hey,everyone says I'm doing so well.So I must be. That is everyone as in the one or two contacts with grown ups that I get a week - save the chit chat in shops or anywhere I can.

I don't think I'm depressed.It's reality.I am also ashamed to admit that I am a bit lost without the drama.My whole life there's been total emotional roller coaster head fuck drama somewhere.Now there isn't.

It must be good.Why doesn't it feel fantastic?
Or is life supposed to be like this?
Or do I just not fit?

Oh, pm, how lovely to see you! :) and

It's not about counter-scripts and anti-scripts; I know that now. Others give us those, too, and they're just scripts after all. What I want and need are freedoms & permissions. Berne calls them 'licenses' and 'permits' for very good reasons.

First attempt, then.

1] I may choose the nature of my successes, and I'm free to change them if I wish. It's okay to want people to like me, and I appreciate that not everybody will. That's okay too.

2] I am permitted to be healthy, happy and safe.

3] I'm allowed to respect money, to enjoy it and to accumulate it.

4] I'm good enough. Sometimes, things feel easy because we have a gift for them. Some things feel hard because we're not gifted that way. What talents have I got? How might I make the most of them?

5] See [4] Working "smart" means maximising what's in front of you. I can choose that, if I feel like it.

6] It is all right to have no children and be happy.

I have to say, most all of the above feels like looking on to a strange planet!

I have hopes, though.

So much of what has been written rings so many bells. I too have drunk heavily on behalf of a parent, carried the can for the sins of my father. It's rubbish, isn't it?

My father is incapable of taking responsibility for himself. The colour of the sky, if he makes a mistake, whatever, is all a child's fault. For my own part, I became very superstitious, unable to get out of bed without worrying that I had got out on the right or wrong foot. I could not think a thought without worrying what it might do. I thought if I loved anyone, they would die because it was my fault I loved them. The responsibility was immense. Had I only known by the age of about 8 that ropes were supposed to go round the neck, I would have put one there.

I don't like being called angry so much. It feels again like carrying the blame for something that isn't of my making.

Yes PM, good to see you back.

Seems to me that we could all do with some more real life, real time interaction with others.

Grace, thak you for your words, I feel that I am none of those things. I have woken, through the night and this morning feeling so lost and alone. I can't sob, I don't want to upset the dc's any more. I hope the breakthrough bit is right.

How do I accept that he IS that mad and won't get better? He says he is getting therapy, and there are certain things that he says that I know he would only have got from a therapist. But a liar cannot be believed fully, ever. Why can't I just let go, once and for all. What the fuck is wrong with me...I've come so far, and yet this last bit is defeating me....utterly. I have lived alone since february, and it's ok. So it's not that. I don't mind my own company, and I now have the freedom to speak to anyone, have friends come here, come on mumsnet even. My kids are happier.

One thing while we were away has disturbed me:

I was manipulated into being quite horrid to ds. I couldn't see when it was happenening, but I can now. H criticised some behaviour, I think that ds had wondered ahead of us, he's in a dream a lot of the time....which is fine by me, as I am too. H decided that it was ignorant and of course, bad parental discipline. As the other parent, I took his side, and it escalated as I was goaded into critisicing ds's behaviour, almost by proxy. I'm not explaining very well. I have since apologised to ds. Since then, he accused me of "shrieking at my children on the streets of London"

This minutiae is dull and petty, but I must log this

A few days later something similar happened, Ds came out of the bathroom, his hair was wet. H said that he hadn't washed his hair, and instead of doing the "united front" thing again, I said that I believed he had, as it was wet and smelled of shampoo. So now, we were accused of "ganging up" on h, and me being the terrible parent....AGAIN.

And he did that getting the kids onside against me thing, which is always on the list of abusive behaviours......"look mummy's starting a fight on holiday again, she always does that when we're on holiday, to ruin things" when actually all I ever did was defend myself from his constant verbal attacks.

Perhaps, in working through your legitimate grief - for the person you thought he was (but isn't), and the marriage you wanted (but didn't have) - you will slowly come to terms with the reality of his abuse. And with the honesty of your wishes.

Is DS at an age where daydreaming is the norm? Or do you think he might be dissociating?

thisis He does sound very damaged to me.
You sound as though a very small part of you is still trying to convince yourself he isn't as bad or as mad as your instincts tell you?
Dont be too hard on yourself though. Isn't that doing what that link I posted says and 'abandoning yourself' by not showing yourself compassion.
You would not be human if you could just come to terms all you have been through. Sit with these feelings or go and do something nice for yourself.

As for me I am finally being honest with myself. I think I could just walk away and say Im fixed and all would be well.
I still need to draw fro the well of grief and I need help to do it.
I told dh this last night. Ive done most of the work myself and I dont think (for me) going back on Ads is the answer. I need to access some therapy.
I hope I get seen soon on NHs but if not I will have to go privately.
I tend to see myself as weak, selfish self absorbed for needing help, so this is progress for me.

grace Have you read anything on the 'iceberg model'? Think you might find it useful.

Sorry just read back and middle bit was all a bit garbled.

I am waking with anxiety most mornings and I'm convinced it is all to do with abandonment.
I think dh leaving for work triggers this.
This first started when I first cut contact with my mum a few years back. Which makes sense as cutting contact was like a physical replictaion of her original abndonment (if that makes sense). I went on Ads and 'eventually' it went away.
I have worked on grief to do with the physical and verbal abuse but not the grief of being emotionally abandoned as a very small child. I find it so hard to access it or know where to begin with it.
I think part of me cant relate to the fact that the most basic emotional needs were not met by my mother or to the grief that must have caused me especially at crucial points in my childhood, like when my father left, or my brother was born.
It doesnt sound much to me because I had normalised it to such an extent so part of me believes its ok. But if I continue to belive that then it will affect my parenting.
This is why ds who is 5 was/still does trigger me so much. I panic internally when he is trying to get 'his' emotional needs met because I guess on some level I dont want to remember or feel the pain I felt at being abandoned by my own mother. Perhaps I dont want him to either and so my gut instinct is for him to toughen up, although I am able to overide this mostly these days thankfully.