statley homes thread - dysfunctional families

[Mummiehunnie]

I had a look back and could not find the old thread, for adult children who grew up in unhealthy dysfunctional families, and were abused as a result!

I get what you're saying, I think, mh. But really - your brother 'fed' your cousins to his pals for sex? I think you're better off without him, sad as that may be ...

Blimey, never thought of it like that Grace!! I understand that he hero worshiped the mates and they did not treat him well according to the school mate, that was why he said he withdrew from bro, am a bit thrown by this! In a warped way cousins thought they had one up on me, when they were being used by bro to get mates to like him more! I thought he liked them more than me!

REL Thanks, you're right, I do have some of the skills you listed. Although the not letting people control your moods one is something I've only very recently cottoned onto and am trying to put into practice. I have spent far too long 'letting' people control my moods. I am so sensitive to others moods, really, really sensitive, and while that can be a strong positive, it also has downsides. I can pick up others moods and take them on board, or think they're to do with me. My parents were (still are) very mood, temperamental people who blamed me for everything. For years I would get anxious if my husband was in a bad mood. I would assume he was angry with me. He would get irritated because I'd then need reassurance it wasn't about me. He was just having a bad day or whatever. I'm not that reactive to him any more, but I still am to some friends and others.

I smiled at what you were saying about your son. In the nicest possible way, it is clear that he is still a baby When he's older you will find yourself having to have difficult conversations!

I was thinking recently, before your post, about the difficult conversations I have had with DD who is 5 and a half. About death, about how babies are made, about my father. My own philosophy is to be straight and honest with her. She is a sensitive, perceptive and intelligent child and I feel she can handle the truth, and some grown up stuff (diluted right down). When I explained why we don't see granddad, she said it made her feel sad not to have a granddad as DH's father is dead, and asked me if I wished I'd had a nice daddy like she did .

DH and I both come from families where difficult stuff hasn't been talked about or shared and has been avoided to a ludicrous degree, and with the effect of causing hurt feelings. I hope that by having difficult conversations with DD now, we will always have an open and and honest relationship in the future where negative feelings are allowed to be expressed and taboo topics can be discussed.

That is my aim anyway, we'll see how that pans out when she is a teenager

nemofish Wow, what an interesting story.

Thanks mashitup, I could write a cracking autobiography, but it would sound too far fetched and made up!

My dd is 4years old, and I have taken a similar line to you. I try to be honest (not outright lies) but as gentle as possible. Somehow she has picked up bits and pieces and said to me 'It makes me sad that your mummy doesn't like you. I don't like her because she makes you sad.'

I said that we don't see my mother because she is not a nice person (true) and she lives a long way away (true) but that is okay because we have auntie X and cousin Y and daddy and dsd and the dog etc, so we have a happy family. I felt guilty that she had picked up on my feelings, I hope I haven't damaged her somehow...

I love what you wrote about taboo topics, mashitup! I think I feel another wall poster coming on ...

For ages, and not unlike many other Stately Homers, I thought I might be autistic or have BPD because of the hyper-sensitivity to others' moods that you describe. It eventually dawned on me that it's nothing more (or less) than a skill I had to learn, as a child, for my own survival. Since acknowledging that, I'm happy to report, I no longer feel responsible for - or even unusually aware of - people's feelings! I've lost my telepathy. Hurrah

Thanks for posting that mashitup I found it very helpful. Its something I still struggle with. I can walk into a room and tell you the mood of each person in it.
The link really is not being responsible for these moods. That's the piece of the jigsaw I was missing.

MH What Grace said is right- your bro feeding your cousins. Quite awful really when you think about it. Perhaps he just wasn't/isn't capable of having normal emtoions toward anyone, which is very indicative of NPD perhaps? The fact that he saw your cousins as a way of meeting his own needs, nothing more.

Just wrote a post and deleted it, cant find the words. I havn't told my ds anything and perhaps this is wrong -he is 5.5 now.

No I don't think it's wrong therealsmithfield. He's so little - what can you say that won't, in some small way, be detrimental to him? I have discussed it with my dd, as she has got used to me being unwell over it, and despite the medical tests and investigations I have had, it is all down to my mental state. I am so anxious / sad / hurting over this, I have made myself too ill to function at times. She asked dh if I was going to die at one point! I wasn't of course, but she got used to mummy being ill, and I felt it was only fair that she know, in a round about way, why mummy was ill. That's when she made the comment 'I don't like your mum cos she doesn't like you and that makes me sad,' when I was in bed ill, again. And it just came out.

If you can tell them nothing, do so. But that's not always possible.

nemo You have been through so much , Do you have contact with your mum now? Sorry if you have posted before.
I have to admit I tell little white lies, or make little white admissions. Such as me; 'dont worry ds mummy fell and bashed her knees/was sick...when she was your age too', ds; 'and did your mummy give you a hug?'
me-'Of course she did'.
I want to protect him from things which seems natural, but dishonest.

Sorry that should say *posted about wether you see your mum anymore

No haven't seen the evil witch my mother for about 5 years.

I realised when pregnant with dd that my worst nightmare would be either of my parents going anywhere near my baby. I knew this wasn't right. Having dd brought up huge issues about my childhood, which I knew was not good, but I thought it was all my fault, deep down.

I sent my mother a letter when I was 3 months pregnant, I told her straight that as her husband had been innapropriate with me (sorry that's the only way I can bear to say it right now) I did not feel able to have contact with her, (she knew all about what he did) or have her see dd when she was born.

She sent me back a letter so full of mocking hate and poison, and bear in mind I was 3 months pregnant, that I knew I had made the right decision. I started having pains and hyperventilating and made myself calm down.

She has send the occasional letter / e-mail since, dh watches out for them and usually makes them disappear until I am in a better place mentally. They follow the pattern of guilt trip, nasty comment and emotional blackmail to finish with.

It was one of the most moving moments of my life when someone on stately homes posted about Nasrcissistic Personality Disorder and linked to a site, I read and read and I know now what was wrong with her. There isn't anything wrong with me.

About a year of counselling later and I am the best and healthiest I have ever been, even though there are still some mountains to climb. But I look back and I think wow, I've come a long way

... and despite all that I still can't spell Narcissistic, I don't know where to stop, Narciccicisssissistic....

Hello Everyone

Mashitup - thanks for your post. You are right, little DS is 3 months but I believe in planning ahead! In addition to a missing GP, something else he will have to accept is that his father has two other children that don't live with us - i.e. his brother and sister. That's in no way a negative, and he will see them regularly, but its another load of questions to answer. Worried that he's going to come to the conclusion that if we aren't happy with someone (DPs ex, my father) then we just leave them. I live in a very conservative, quite religious area and I worry that our family is going to seem abnormal or worrying to him.

I am totally and massively getting ahead of myself here. I think this is just therapeutic typing. Don't flame me! God, the other night, thinking about this stuff I started trying to plan how I was going to deal with the inevitable funeral. Its control gone mad!

I'm kind of playing catch up with everyone's posts here. I want to offer my support but finding it hard to say anything I feel is worthwhile. I am so really in awe of how posters are dealing with this stuff.

For me, the best thing about this thread is that you women who have had these issues have done the exact opposite of your parents and become such sensitive, caring people and parents. It gives me a lot of inspiration and reassurance for the future.

nemo Seems to me you made the best decision. NPD was quite revelation for me too. My mother was and still is just incapable of emotion/empathy or of any normal human responses.
I had always thought it was me and as the fixer thought if I just worked hard enough then... well you know.

rel Growing up in a dysfunctional family is chaotic and so it is normal in a way to want every bit of control over the present.
I used to fret a lot about my mother's death. What would I do? Would I go to the funeral? How would I deal with the rampant emotion that would be triggered.
Haven't thought about it for some time now but it's still there lurking.

therealsmithfield, I hesitated to label her as having NPD, after all I am not qualified to diagnose anybody with anything, however she displayed so much 'odd' behaviour and the only way I could reason it out and understand her was to accept that her world view was that she, and only she mattered.

She even told be she was a narcissist when I was a child, but I had no idea what she was talking about then.

rel I have thought about 'the phonecall' lots. First the phonecall to say something has happened to her and she is in hospital or whatever and This Might Be It. I have made myself promise that I will not run to her and care for her (I was employed as a carer for 10years+) which she may well expect to happen.

I don't think I would go to her funeral. I would want to go, but just to say to myself that she is really gone. But I am not sure I would be able to resist humming 'ding dong, the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead' throughout the service.

But then I have a very dark sense of humour and I am probably just very twisted.

She has kept me in her will, which surprised me. I will give a sizable chunk of it to NSPCC / Barnados, and the rest I will put aside for dd. But if she changes her mind and cuts me out, that's fine.

I think it's easier for me as she is the 'Ignoring Mother' type and because I have seen her very little really since running away leaving home at 16. I don't think I love her anymore, at one point she was my world.

My mother had heart surgery earlier this year and I was relishing the prospect of it going wrong. I would not attend her funeral. It's a decision I am looking forward to stating. Really, thank god for this thread because no one anywhere else would begin to understand.

Sadly it must have gone well as I heard nothing more about it. My older sister left a text message thing on the land line about it.

I don't care if she leaves me money or not, if she does I will spend it on MY family and myself. But if she doesn't that's fine too.

I am still struggling to understand how anyone can be so determined to destroy their own childs life. I struggle to understand how she sucks people into what she does, The only thing that I can think is that, like many "cluster B " people, she is charismatic at first, almost like a cult leader, then the whole thing becomes such a roller coaster ride of confusion and lies, gaslighting and fantasy, that people don't know which way is up after a while.

I do know which way is up, I know it's not me, and I can see how people get pulled in to the chaos. People are essentially very nice on the whole, and make excuse after excuse, especially when it's all so totally unbelievable.

TIHIF, Nemo, TRS - Thanks for your observations. Every time a man his age dies, like a friends dad or someone nice I know, I think why? Why can't he die and leave these nice people? He is such a negative influence in the world and makes many people sad/angry/confused. He's like not a person, like a beetle or a lizard.. like just running on instinct or reacting to chemical indicators. No feelings or emotions. Definitely got exponentially worse as he got older also. Nemo and TRS you both discuss this about your mother's behaviour - I'm surprised by how many people seem to have this or know people with this. TIHIF you hit it on the head when you say how people sort of can't believe it and make up excuses for them. I still feel i can't say what I really think or I would get judged, even by people who really love me. Its like they can't or don't want their understanding to take it in. I don't blame them - its disturbing.

I'm firmly in the funeral non-attendance camp. If I end up getting any money I told DP to buy a boat, something he'd love but we can't afford. I couldn't spend the money on myself or allow it to pay for food or mortgage. I couldn't bear it, I'd rather give it away. And I'd pick a charity that helps homo/bi/transgender people, or women, or black people or some other target of his hatred.

I'd better get a wriggle on anyway, have a lovely Saturday everyone x x

My dad died suddenly, in an accident that may have been on purpose. His funeral was an extraordinarily cheerful event - the only cryer was Mum. Unfortunately I think she'll linger (her grandmother lived to ninety-something). I've made it known to my sibs that I shan't be volunteering as carer, although I live nearby. I live here because she tricked me into it - that bit of self-centred planning is going to go wrong for her. Damn, I still feel guilty saying it!!

She refuses to admit she can't see well enough to drive, but has an incredible habit of emerging from the pile-ups she causes with nothing but bruises. I live in hope ... and I don't feel guilty about that

Oh, nemo, mine's named her narcissism, too! As she says, "it's just the way she is" [shrug]

TRS Don't feel bad you haven't told your DS anything. I told DD about why we don't see my Dad because she asked.

In the example you gave it is difficult. I've had something like that. In my case my mother was loving when I was little, it was as I got a bit older and developed my own personality that things got tricky. But even then she blew hot and cold and could be affectionate and nurturing at times. If you can't answer 'yes' to your mum giving you a cuddle honestly, could you be evasive? Not that I think telling him a white lie is harmful, but because you might feel better about being truer to yourself?

I often wonder about what it would be like when my parents die. I sometimes think it would make things a lot easier, and it would practically, make other family relationships easier. But I also now I will have conflicted feelings and it will be difficult. Because it will mean that I definitely won't ever get the unconditionally loving relationship with my parents that I deserve, IYKWIM. I know anyway that won't happen, but death will obviously make it completely infeasible.

mashitup Thanks It is clear to me at times that it is much harder to break habbits set in the childhood mold than I would like to believe.
My mother never told me the truth about anything, albeit for different reasons. Hers were more about control and manipulation, yet at the same time she prolly 'believed' it really was for my own good.
So have I been programmed into thinking that it is best not to tell a child the truth?
When I look at ds I really do want to protect and want to keep him from any 'bad feelings' but is this not also a manipulation in itself?
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I had a bad day with ds yesterday I hate myself at times when I treat ds in a way where I can see my mother's traits filtering through.
I'm trying to understand what the underlying trigger is and Im convinced it comes back to the whole judgement thing again.
An entrenched anxiety of being judged.
Yesterday ds wanted new shoes (his ones really are too small) so I took him to two seperate shops where he tried on numerous shoes and complained that the ones (he didn't like ) hurt. The one pair he did didnt fit properly so he couldnt have those.
In the second shop he found a pair he liked we bought them and these shoes aren't cheap as you all know, he insisted on wearing them and half way back through the shopping centre he said 'mummy these shoes hurt'.
We went back, he was refitted for the third time and there was nothing left to try on so I asked for a refund.
Nothing really that upsetting about any of that because its just everyday life with children. But I became more and more uncomfortable because (not conciously) but subconciously I felt that everyone in the shoe shop was now looking at us and judging us and so (again in my subconcious) this extreme discomfort was being caused by ds .
It is definately an improvement in my behaviour that I got home and immediately expelained to ds and took resonsibility for what were 'my' uncomfortable feelings, and reassured him he did the right thing telling me the shoes we had bought hurt.
BUT still I cant keep doing this to him! After going back to the shop he kept saying he was sorry . I have to catch the trigger/negative thinking 'before' it happens and before it impacts on ds. I feel ashamed of myself, because this is the sort of behaviour I would have had from my mother over and again albeit without explanation.
The irony is when we were in the shop there was a little girl and I recognised myself in her. Her mother kept talking gruffly at her, inher face and prodding at her arm to get her attention. She was only 8 but looked tense and wouldnt look anyone in the eye. It made me feel sad.
Im hoping writing it here will help, because I am not hiding it from myself nor justyfying it to myself. It has to change.

I think this all points back to low self esteem because self esteem is what gives resilience and the sense of self worth to deal with everyday stresses. I am getting better and with counseling Im hoping will get better still. But I realise more and more self esteem is the key.

Good for you, smithfield :)
Have you tried doing 'compassion' work? It's not about being soft & woolly - compassion can also be tough love - more about developing patience, emotional generosity, a sense of proprtion: that sort of thing.

I'm still having a bit of trouble with self-compassion but the longer I do this stuff, the pleasanter life becomes. (It's stopped my panic attacks, too! Only just realised!)

Hi, haven't read all of the thread yet but read some of the others and think I may have posted before, just would like some advice and counselling from some of you amazing survivors on here. Sorry will try to keep it as brief as I can.

My Mum was very physically and verbally and emotionally abusive towards me as I was growing up, especially as a teenager, I won't go into descriptive detail as we would be here forever, one day I might post about it but for now just need help with a current situation. My Dad basically ignored it and tbh I preferred it that way at the time, if he ever stood up for me there would be an almight row and he would walk out leaving me to deal with the fall out, not easy at aged 12.

Over the years, as I grew up they were if anything even more horrible and my Dad joined in. Really it was things like not letting me use the phone when I came to stay (before mobiles) to check my train times and bollocking me, bellowing in my face in fact for not having done it before I arrived, leaving me standing on a freezing cold platform at night in December for 2 hours because they didn't want to have to do the ten minute journey back to the station after my train was delayed, I visited once after a year away and being abroad and when I arrived and asked for a bath they said No, because they needed one and didn't want to switch the immersion heater on as it was too expensive (they are very well off), they basically treated me like shit really, like they hated me but at the same time always telling me how much they loved me. When drunk once my Mum told my assembled, extended family (Christmas Party) that her children were utter failures and she didn't know where she had gone wrong. Almost every visit would end in some kind of argument with my Mum playing the victim, taking offence at nothing, extended family being forced to take sides (always hers) and so on and on and ON!

Moving on I met ex H and we had ds. Almost from the outset my Mum was causing problems, she recommended weaning ds at 6 weeks and when I said quite respectfully that I wouldn't like to do that just yet, she hung up on me and we didn't have contact for 5 months afterwards, thus missing him entirely as a newborn. Similar thing happened after dd was born can't even remember what the argument was this time but she stopped contact until after dd's first birthday so missing her whole first year (always did that btw would stop talking to you for months at a time then use a birthday or Christmas to open up communication again). Funnily enough I didn't really care anymore, was totally consumed by my dc (in a good way) and could see it all for what it was now, nonsense, spite and really fucking horrible parenting, having dc myself I knew I could never behave like that and it was as though it freed me iykwim? It wasn't me, I wasn't a horrible person, she was just an awful Mother.

So moving forward we began to build a relationship via dc really, she became the doting Grannie, Dad still a bit difficult but I do actually put this down to behind the scenes moaning from her. Dad like a clockwork toy, she winds him up and sends him off. We started to get on quite well despite this.

Just recently though I have started to notice nasty little comments eg to my dc after they accidently pulled a curtain down "for Gods sake you have only been her five minutes", face pulling and sighing how tired she is from cooking for me and dc when we go and stay, from my dad, criticism about how lazy I am because I don't do DIY or decorate my home (they are obsessed with home improvements) and little comments about ds needing more discipline (he is ASD). I feel that the relationship is regressing and I know how bad they can be. I know an awful lot will be being said behind my back too and this is spilling over into their nasty comments. It is making me very uncomfortable, I recognise all the signs. I will not have my dc affected by their nonsense.

So all you wise ladies on here, would you take a massive step back again and if you did would you tell them why you are doing it? What would you say? Basically how would you deal with it? Btw my younger sister has absolutely nothing to do with them, apart from a twice annual visit and cards on special occasions, she seems able to disengage from them easily. However she is very happily married to a lovely man so think she gets a lot of emotional support from him.

Going back to read this whole thread now and thank you if you managed to plough your way through my post.

Yes, I absolutely would take a massive step back. It's such a pity you have been disappointed over and over again with them; for your own sake and your DCs, I hope you will now be able to feel you've really given them enough chances. Clearly you don't want them undermining their grandchildren the same way they did you :(

How does your sister steer clear of them? If I were you I'd have a long talk with her about it (or maybe several). You've already handled the hardest part - seeing what they're up to, and feeling detached from their games - so it probably won't be all that hard to pull off :)

Myself, I just set boundaries and clarify them (I told my mum, yesterday, I wasn't giving her information about my posts here because I don't want her to read them.) There's nothing wrong with telling them you don't want to see them, though, with avoiding their calls or with vaguely fudging ("fogging") them. Do what works. I'm sure your sister can offer good ideas!

I'm liking your seasonal namechange, silvery