statley homes thread - dysfunctional families

[Mummiehunnie]

I had a look back and could not find the old thread, for adult children who grew up in unhealthy dysfunctional families, and were abused as a result!

mummiehunnie - what's up? haven't caught up with thread yet,or been around much over weekend . Am here this am if u want to post....

If i put pigtails in my hair, bring my crutch and explain my hair so they can b sure i am a child 2 b told off and the stick is 2 beat me with it will stop them attacking me 4 volcanos and physios and being a single parent? Not just that am v upset that the final straw!

And a nit comb 2 nit pick at me! Grr want 2 tell them 2 f off how is this helping having an attack!

MH You sound very distressed. Are you able to explain what's happened? Is it one thing or a culmination?

Am concerned about you ,Mh .I want to help.

Accumulation, cant walk after physio was trying 2 sort out one prob has caused me no end now! Too much right now 2 explain waiting 4 phonecalls 4 help! Also emotions of kids and mine!

Hate being vounerable

Really sorry you are hurting ...I have had some very bleak times lately,as you know,and have felt overwhelmed....

It is very difficult to ask for help,I know, so very well done that you have both asked in RL ,and posted here...

You will get through..it will pass and feel different again.
You have had a very strong voice on here - this and other threads - recently,and I'm sure have been highly valued by many.

Emotions and vulnerability can be so difficult to hold - I share that ,too.
Try to focus on the present moment,only ,right now.

Just keep breathing in and out,one second at a time,and let the waves wash over you.

The very strong feelings will eventually recede.
You are a great Mum ,and are doing so well.

Keep posting.Thinking of youx ((((hugs))))x

I find the whole idea of the construction of a false self and the disparate nature between what we are and what we think people want us to be fascinating and quite close to home

The idea of a whole person made up of layers of life stages. I believe even our experiences as newborns will be part of our soul even though we have no tangible memory of babyhood. I separated my child self, or tried to, because subconsciously I knew her to be wounded, hateful, vengeful and possessing the key to a box of abusive family secrets. She did not fit in with the perfect falsehood I used as my shield and so I denied her. Yes this is essentially the psychological mechanism that underpins narcissism but I know I was saved from becoming completely damaged by maintaining some link, however tentative, with that child.

It reminds me of Wuthering Heights. This was always my favourite book, not because I found it romantic but because it resonated with me on a deep level. I think Cathy and Heathcliff represent two parts of the same damaged person. She talks about Heathcliff as being an unpleasant but necessary part of herself ? like the eternal rocks below, always there and always in her mind. She denies him and ultimately it destroys her. My inner child is an essential part of me and denying her almost destroyed me with depression and anxiety. She was rarely given a voice by others and was nearly betrayed by the very adult she had become. I am peeling back the layers slowly but I am still to reach the core of myself ? what I really am. Now I have given her a voice I also find that child to be passionate, creative and loving.

Grace ? I remember that old defence mechanism of ?black and white thinking? getting me into a minor dispute with you. I was annoyed that my MIL had expressed sympathy with my abusers (because they did not get to see my children). I can?t remember what you wrote but I now know that my reaction was knee jerk and barely conscious. It was that wounded inner child who believed someone was either for me or against me with no in between. I didn?t realise it then because I still didn?t believe she was part of me. Now I understand that interaction so much more clearly and I have learnt from it. I hope you can understand why we didn?t get off to the best start and now I can see your posts in all the glorious shades of grey which make up a human being, I welcome your advice and insights and like others on this thread admire the journey you are making. I notice you have had some rough days recently and I am sorry to here that. I find I still randomly plunge into feeling quite depressed and hopeless. Sometimes it is a trigger or my inner child trying to tell me something, other times it is just bloody hormones I think!

Smithfield ? do you remember the article I pasted on here about ?fleas?? The idea that victims of narcissism often develop narcissistic traits (in order to survive I think) but they are just ?fleas? ? taking a bite at us and then jumping off. You are not a narcissist but you may have fleas! I can remember many instances in my life where I have reacted or acted narcissistically and it has caused me minor problems in relationships, work and home. However I have had enough insight to shake the pest off before it imbeds itself and causes permanent damage e.g. I treated my dh quite badly when we first got together. I was only 19 so quite immature but I still feel bad about it to this day. I also remember a leaving interview for my first job when my boss dared to suggest areas for improvement and I burst into tears! I saw it as a personal attack and again that wounded child acted in the only way she knows, to defend herself. Now I am much more open to advice and suggestions because I am becoming more comfortable with my flaws and I know I don?t have to make my dh jump through ridiculous hoops to prove his love for me. Like you I have just given up my job to be a SAHM and suffering some of the same anxieties. I wonder where that comes from?

Which leads me to finish this long rambling post with the thought on how I maintained enough of a link with my authentic self (as all of us on here have done) when at times I tried to deny it and find ways to be who my adoptive parents wanted me to be? And what causes the complete disruption between actual self and idealised self that I believe causes pathological narcissism? I once loved the Katherine Kerr Celtic fantasy series. Some of the characters could project their spirit out of their body and search for people or places; I think they called it scrying. Their spirit maintained a connection with the body by a sort of ethereal umbilical chord. If this was severed the person was lost forever in the spirit world. It reminds me of really damaged narcissists, like they have stretched the connection too far and have been severed from their former self only to be lost in this false ideology forever. And then what really is an authentic self? Is it something inherent at the moment of conception?

MH - sorry you are feeling so vulnerable
I quite often explain myself through long winded metaphors because that is the only way I know how, but I have felt that desperate sadness and just wanted to curl up and blank out the world. As pinemartina said the waves will wash over you and calm down but for now be kind to yourself as much as you can.

Wow Rose, what an amazing post!! Wuthering Heights was always my favourite book too. I always found the idea of truly feeling stuff with that kind of passion to be such an attractive idea, because I suppose I was never allowed to express ME, I envied their ability to do so without care for the opnions of others. And then in the end, it was the opnions of others and their expefctations that caused such horror and destruction and heartbreak.

I have had fleas too, I believe this idea explains a lot of odd behaviour in the people around me from time to time too, and at the centre of the vortex of insanity stands my mother. There is no way I could have made the progres I have made if I had maintained any kind of contact with her, or indeed those around her.

My inner child, princess bluebell is always with me now. She's a princess you know!!! :) No one who hurts people is allowed to be anywhere near her.

I would echo the advice to mh. Find quietness, and listen to what your senses alone are telling you. Find quietness and stop them from hurting you. Refuse to listen to it. Just be you in the quiet. Hear your own breathing, your own heartbeat. That is real. Nothing else.

You are so eloquent, and so giving and caring, that's how you come across on here, that's my perception of you.

Stunning post, Rose. Thank you. I'm going to take some time to read it slowly this evening :)

I've been reading some more about constructs - the mental scaffolding around which we build our personal view of the world - and gradually beginning to face the "loss" of my family. What I've lost is not the people themselves, but my beliefs in who & what they are. I think I'm going to have to suffer a phase of loathing them, beore arriving at a sensible place: I wish it weren't so. I'm having such difficulty in removing them from my psyche, I'll probably need to focus on all their worst features for a while - similar to what you do after breaking up with a boyfriend! Unlike a boyfriend, though, this bunch have been structure & foundations of my life. I've got to face the unpleasant truth that without them - and I am not truly with them, anyhow - I'm completely, utterly alone. Argh!

mh, I don't know who's making you feel so got at today. I wish they weren't :( I hope you find the "oomph" to tell them where to get off! Please remember to take decent care of yourself, you're very precious. xx

Hi again guys.

My counsellor suggested I write a letter to LittleNemofish. It took me months to work up the courage, but I did it, and it did definitely help me to feel better.

I read about the idea of using visualisation to 'rescue' your inner child, going back to an abusive time and walking in and saying 'right LittleNemofish, get your coat, we're leaving now.' I love that idea and I'm going to give it a go.

Anyone done this?

As some of you will know, the recent This Is England series brought up some stuff for me, as I'm sure it did with many of you. I have remembered it all now, but it was just very uncomfortable / innapropriate things that my stepdad said / suggested to me. Stomach churning though, no wonder I blocked them out!

And echoing Grace, stunning post roseability.

Serial lurker here.

I have read so many posts, and admire the journey many of you are on... it seems so painful at times, but I admire your ability to SEE things as they really are.

I have a question: Am I the only one who has trouble expressing?

I seem to have a strong sense of loyalty to my parents, and despite some things that they did that make me so ANGRY, I still feel unreasonably loyal to them.

I have read other people express a similar sense of loyalty... but in my family talking about issues was so actively discouraged...

So, do any of you feel that sense of 'betrayal'?

And if so, how do you get past that?

Hello, condensedmilk. I haven't been here long, much more knowledgeable ladies here can answer that better than me. But I do know that the "loyalty"that's the positive way to put it, "shame" is the flip sideis part of the mechanism that dysfunctional families use to keep their dirty secrets. So we all feel/felt like you do.
And of course you love your parents, all children do, even twisted cruel uncaring parents. Those children grow up not knowing any different, they don't know that the way they were brought up isn't normal. And they can't talk about it because of the shame and the silence they were trained to maintain. It can take decades to break through that and realise that they were the problem, not you.

Thanks Quiddity.
You have given me a lot to think about - renaming it shame rather than loyalty to start with.

Rose - I hope to oneday be in the place you are. Brilliant post.
It just seems too huge (and exhausting) to unravel right now - the earlier poster who described it as a Pandora's Box is right.

MummieHunnie - I hope you are ok. I have read your posts around Mumsnet and you are always helping others, so I hope you can get the help you need here.

mummiehunnie are you ok this morning? I hope you found some peace, even for a moment overnight, and hope you slept some.

nemofish, yes I have done this and sdo it on a regular basis now that I have learned how. It is enormously helpful, I suspect on a more subconscious level than I know.

I have heard the name she wants, listened to all the things she likes without ridicule and terror, and now she trusts me, I trust the world, not completely, but more and more. I am, as an adult amazed at my ability to speak calmly and clearly when someone has hurt me, to say that it is unacceptable, and I will not tolerate it. I seem to have an inner confidence in myself that I have NEVER had before. I truly believe that these things go together. I am so fiercely protective of bluebell, and so fucking angry about what those freaks did to her. That anger is good for her, she is beginning to feel safe, and able to come out of hiding and be the princess she always really was, and that made all those others so jealous.

Grace, I was afraid of that realisation of total aloneness. I think that's why Brenda spoke about the ideas of "apart" and "a part".

I think that in order to be a whole solid person, we need to be apart from others, seperate, and yes, alone. But the strange, yet utterly logical thing is, that when we become apart, we become a part of the whole thing, of the universe, the system, and it feels very secure and not in the least bit scary. It feels way more secure and safe than being dependent on the dysfunctional definitions and roles of others. It's a sense of completeness, of being able to interact fully with everything else.

I'm not putting this very well I don't think. It's kind of a Buddhist thing isn't it?

We are alone, we always were, but that's the way it is and is meant to be. It's not scary, we are already there. It's being without "the system" that feels scary. But from my perspective, the "system" or "weirdworld" is now way scarier. The ,ore I am away from it, the freakier and scarier it actually becomes.

I hope that makes some kind of sense.

Just to clarify, the universal system, which is a good thing, and "the system", the dysfuntional way in which my family operates.

Hi, thank u all 4 kind words x am feeling better 2day! Will post again! As just got mob at mo! X x x

Thisishowifeel - my therapist once told me that maybe we are alone on an existential level. I didn't really know what he meant at the time and the concept of being 'alone' in any sense terrified me. I think your post explains what he meant quite well.

I am away to look up existentialism!

I wonder if we could discuss this more because it is interesting. I think being a 'whole' person also requires being part of nature, the seasons and yes as you said thisishowifeel, apart from others.

As I have got older and less dependent and connected to the 'dysfunctional system' of my old family, I become more aware of nature and my connection to it. The seasons have become more noticable as they represent change, a cycle of life and the development of my children. Also an awareness of my own mortality.

I have been watching that Stephen Hawking programme. The scale of the universe bears into insignificance the narcissistic drama of my old family. It makes me wonder if narcissists are not only divorced from themselves but from the universe also. They are actually so dependent on others, they don't know how to be seperate. They cannot stand their own company because they are empty, thoughtless and meaningless without others.

Having finally realised the truth about our childhoods and the lack of love, which deep down we knew to be true all along but could not express it, we all could be facing an 'existential crisis' - a stage of development when an individual questions the very foundations of his or her life. A narcissist is not capable of having such a crisis, so dependant are they on 'the system'. They continually choose the 'blue pill' and stay plugged into the matrix of co dependecy, abuse and relentless seeking of narcissistic supply to feel alive. They don't exist when they are on their own, or only in a physical sense.

Some tribal communities believe western man is diseased despite all we have materially, because we are too divorced from nature and the universe. To some extent I think narcissism can be linked to our culture - you only have to look at a glossy magazine to see it. The character Pierre in War & Peace has an existential crisis when he is nearly killed and has to live off the land during the napoleonic wars. He has never felt more alive and fulfilled than when he is stripped down to the bear bones of his humanity. He was previously the victim of a narcissistic, abusive wife and unhappy as part of the Russian aristocratic society.

It may help us then, this kind of thinking? It may give us the strength and courage to take the 'red pill' and strike out alone. To extricate ourselves from 'the system' and take comfort in the knowledge that we are a part of the cosmos, of nature.

Being in nature, and aware of the patterns and cycles is very important. How many of the dysfunctional people we have all known seem to be oblivious to what is around them. How many of them drink in the smell of the rain or the ocean, completely delight in a sunset, or an unusual looking cloud.

Children do, they notice stuff, and the "wonderchild" sees things and patterns in unique ways, in that way that is a part, and never apart. Until some damaged adult tells them to "not be so stupid", etc etc.

It is so utterly sad, because it's a knowledge that we seem to be born with, that gets systematically hidden and buried, through terror and shame.

"wake up and smell the coffee" Brilliant, 'cos it SMELLS beautiful.

I think it was Patricia Evans who talked about sensate functions, and how the dysfunctional are truly disconnected from them. As we reconnect with our sensate functions, then we become part of the universe.....not the universe itself!

This is ace isn't it? Because it's like a child discovering the world in all it's glory.

The result of my first inner child session was "that I want to exist"

mummiehunnie - glad you are feeling better

It is a bit like that this journey isn't it? You feel like you are treading water and maybe even beginning to swim and then a colossal wave seems to appear from nowhere forcing you under again.

However I am finding that each time the wave pushes me down, I come up gasping for air a little further on, so it has also pushed me forward. Can you try to see it like this? I am not trying to reach the shore anymore, I just want to move forward even a tiny bit. The shore represents some perfect ideal always just out of reach, get closer and it is just a mirage. The trick is just to keep moving forward. Not aiming to reach what is not real, but to grow stronger and swim better on the journey. The waves do less damage and you can appreciate the beauty of the sun glistening on the water because you are less fearful

I do find myself being more childlike during this life crisis as I like to put it

It is not like a midlife crisis which to me has connotations of narcissistic pursuits - young lovers, fast cars and looking youthful (although I can be vain and obsess over the smile lines appearing on my eyes ). It is more about connecting with that part of myself. I sledged for the first time since childhood last winter, My dh took a photo. I almost shed a tear because my face just exuded joy and I saw her for the first time in many, many years - roseability the child