statley homes thread - dysfunctional families

[Mummiehunnie]

I had a look back and could not find the old thread, for adult children who grew up in unhealthy dysfunctional families, and were abused as a result!

I've started my own thread on this but haven't had any replies, would it be ok if i paste it on here? Would appreciate any thoughts/comments

Need some perspective/advice re relationship with my father (3 Posts)

Add message | Report | Message poster DairyleaAndPickleOnAStick Sun 03-Oct-10 12:52:24
Title says it all really- having issues with my dad and have no idea how to sort it out- the same cycle seems to be repeating itself and I/we don't know how to change it.(This is probably going to be long and rambly so please bear with me)

Currently the issue is this (and this is just the most recent example of his behaviour)- my parents are having work done to a rental property they have recently bought- painting and decorating etc. A price was fixed for the work and when it came to paying the workmen my mother and brother agreed to pay the men whilst my dad was at work. (I should point out that my dad had left a list for them detailing the work done and the price- this is something that he always doesAnyway when it came to it the man wanted an extra £30 which my mum gave him. She rang my dad and told him and when he came home he went ballistic, ranting and raving,accusing "us" of just handing out "his" money willy nilly and that's it's ok to pay out when it's "his" money, everyone takes the piss out of him etc etc I was there at the time and pointed out that it us v annoying but that's the way it goes, think of the tax relief etc, maybe he should be more assertive/dealt with this himself etc (Placating him I suppose) Predictably, this did no good, and unfortunately I lost the rag a bit with him and said a few things that I shouldn't have- anyway the upshot is this he hasn't spoken to my mum since yesterday.Eventually, he will calm down and all will be well again- until the next time.This is just another example of the way this little game plays out and I think there are several issues going on here- I just can't get a handle on it -Each time it happens my mum and bro will withdraw and I will be the only one able to confront him.Then when all is well again we will discuss and think it's sorted until it happens again. I should point out that I'm the most like my dad in personality so maybe that's why I feel that I'm the only one who can tackle him. Also, I suspect he may have NPD,and finally that I read a checklist of traits someone posted from CoDependents Anonymous and I tick almost every one
Can anyone give me some advice? And apologies if this doesn't make any sense.

Add message | Report | Message poster DairyleaAndPickleOnAStick Sun 03-Oct-10 13:21:19
Erm I think I have omitted what I think to be the crux of the matter- I think that my dad is playing some kind of game with my num and brother-he lets them think that they are in control of situations like this(ie organising and paying for the painters) but when push comes to shove he has the finally say, which means that they do all his dirty work for him- he doesn't have to confront people directly- and if they don't then he can take his frustration out on them. Is this a fair assessment do you think? Am I seeing this properly?

Add message | Report | Message poster DairyleaAndPickleOnAStick Sun 03-Oct-10 14:14:26
Bump. Anyone??

I think your evaluation is totally correct, DAP - though you missed out one part: your mother & bro make you do their dirty work (standing up for them against your dad). So there's a nice little chain of angry behaviours operating, isn't there? Dad gets mum & bro to do his work for him, then dumps a burst of rage on them. You rage back on their behalf. Then mum & bro go back to their roles as (passively aggressive?) silent servants. Lovely. Everybody's cross, aren't they?

You can step away from this whole procedure quite simply, by letting the three of them get on with their games and not getting involved. You don't have to play if you don't want to (who would?) They'll all be expecting you to do what you've always done, though, so they might take it badly. If I were you I'd give it a try!

Eric Berne's book, "Games People Play", might give you some very big clues as to what they're all up to.

Thanks for replying ItsGrace,
That thought had occurred to me (I have previous form for doing this kind of thing and have been working hard to cut it out)

It's also interesting because bro no. 2 does not get involved in these dramas and as a result I think my dad respects him more, and he def does not rage at him.

I think my mum is passive aggresive towards him simply because she does not know how to deal with him otherwise. Do you have suggestion as to how to deal with my father when he is like this? Or any suggestions as to why he behaves like this?

I'm finding it so hard to be objective when in the middle of this.

Oh and apologies for hi-jacking here.

Thanks thisis and grace.

I realise now that the answer is to stay firmly on track and not scurry back to the trappings (which does cross my mind most days). I have a lot of work to do but think I really need a therapist to hold my hand now because Im getting down to the knuckle, close to the mark, the really painful stuff and I cant do it alone. Im afraid to.

Its funny but I see my depression and anxiety as two characters now. The depression is the dark brooding teenage/young woman, whilst the anxiety is the small petrified child.
I'm glad the small child is standing here now, despite being a bag of nerves becasue of her . But she's never stuck around this long, if that makes sense, so Ive never got a good glimpse of her.

grace the article was spot on for me. I have had partners in the past and things have played out just like that.
Partners that put me on a pedestal without even knowing me. I felt wonderful...until I fell off, then it soon fell apart.

It's a worthwhile but very frightening process, this stripping away of things.
It is probably the false self I had constucted for myself in order to survive that wants the job back, along with the car and a bigger house (along with a cleaner to keep it clean ).

I have been walking around for the past two weeks with my grey roots showing and even having a chuckle about it with one of the mums on the school run.
And yep, Im still here. It's amazing though how I have tarred everyone with the same brush as my mother.

Thanks again ladies for your warmth, good humour and support.

smithfield, I love what you said about your anxious little girl and depressed/moody teenager. It makes perfect sense! Am going to do some work with that myself tonight :)

You're not hijaacking, DAP! Family like yours, you fit right in - welcome. You wrote a few things I felt like picking up but didn't, as I'm getting practical things done today (well, a few). Co-dependency is a kind of addiction; there's a symbiosis between the disordered individual and their rescuer. Both sides are strongly invested in keeping this going, however the co-dependent is the one who is capable of breaking free. This is because co-dependency arises from emotional 'training', whereas your disordered person has some faulty internal wiring.

It's hard to do, though. It takes a deal of self-knowledge, which develops over time as you learn more and practice being autonomous. This is why I suggested disengaging from that particular game within your family. After you've done it once, more things will fall into place and your next steps will seem easier. You seem still to be invested in the idea of changing your dad. You can't do this - and it would be abusive to try! How about taking a lead from your other brother, just choosing not to play with the other three?

DAP You aren't hijacking at all. You came to the right place for support. Sorry I didnt acknowledge your post. Was hurriedly trying to get some thoughts down before they expired on me
Your father sounds very controlling and as a result all of you have assumed your roles in order to manage him and his moods. My family were (still are like this too).
I think realising what is happening and the role or part you are playing is a huge step forward.
I think one of the biggest things about it is when you are so emotionally invested in your 'old family' you have little time for your own new one. Yet your own little family should be the focus.
Keep posting if you can, it will help to write down thoughts as they occur to you.

grace glad you found that useful.

DAP, here is a game about making a small stick into a big truncheon, for the metaphorical purpose of hitting someone:
"Now I Got You, Son Of A Bitch"
and here's one about couples having the same row, over and over, to achieve a hidden agenda:
"Corner"

Yep, I do try and follow his lead a lot of the time but, it's incredibly hard for me to do- in fact sometimes it feels like our whole relationship revolves around these games and if I stepped away there would be no relationship there

Tough work these adult relationships eh?

Really appreciate you taking the time to reply as you are busy today.

thereal,I will keep posting as it is helping me to figure this all out!

I realised this about my dad a while ago but have been trying very hard to ignore it. I know that he isn't acting like this in a vacuum and my mum and I know that we are playing parts in all this too. She is pretty clued up about emotional issues but this one has her stumped I think!!

I worry about my brother because I don't think he fully realises what is going on here. I have a feeling my dad divides and conquers so bro and I don't have a particularly good relationship- a lot of sibling rivalary going on too.Good grief it's all a bit weird! Sorry for rambling, haven't really said this all out loud before!!

ItsGrace will have a look at the links now

DAP I think what you said about not having any relationship with your father if you didnt keep doing what you're doing is quite significant. You are afraid that if you change your behaviour he will reject you? Then perhaps your mother (deep down) feels the same?
Divide and conquor, yes- tick. There are four of us and none of us are close.
My fathers control and division were/still are around money. Is that the case for you as well?
It sounds like there maybe a great deal of emotional unavailability to which would make sense if your father does have npd tendencies.

Have just read the links and am feeling a bit freaked out tbh! I must sound a bit naive but I didn't think we were actually playing out a recognised pattern, sorry finding it a bit hard to articulate my thoughts here!

Yes everything revolves around money. Currently my father is in the process of signing over a property to my brother as well as acting as a guarantor for a large loan for him. I have voiced my concerns about this to both my parents, in fact the reasons for my father doing this for my brother are not rational and I suspect,in fact he has more or less told me that he is "testing" my brother by doing this.

Re your point about my father rejecting me, I don't know if im afraid of this, maybe?

And a big fat yes to emotional unavailability!

DAP Reject is probably the wrong choice of word, but I related to what you were saying and if your father is emotionally unavailable as you say then chances are you have built a relationship with him based on your role. It sounds as though you are the'fixer'? So it follows that if you stopped fixing or trying to fix him the relationship will potentially disipate.
I speak from experience because when I stopped trying to fix my own father the result was we didnt speak to each other for a year.
Yes, it can be freakish cant it when you read stuff in black and white which up until that point was just a hunch or a feeling that 'something' you could never put your finger on is going on around you.

I think you are right that I am the fixer, but I'm not sure if that's the role I play with my dad, maybe within the family as a whole though?

I'm struggling a bit with the fact that maybe this can't be fixed, I know I can't change my dad but am finding it hard to accept that the way he behaves will never change. Where does that leave me and the rest of the family? Can someone like him change?

I'm afraid that by writing this all down and discussing it here I've opened Pandora's box!!

Reading back my posts I see that I'm not really making much sense and I'm not even sure what I'm trying to figure out

I think that I want someone to ask me a lot of questions and then tell me what's wrong and what I can do to fix with it! confused control freak moi??!!

what you describe is counselling/therapy daps.. is it something you would consider, I am so tired...

DAP As MH said therapy is probably what you need as a way of supporting yourself, that is, if you are going to delve deeper into the mechanics of your family.
Have you had any therapy so far? Would you consider it as an oprion?
It's understandable that you want answers and that doesnt make you a control freak at all .
Its' normal that you want to fix your dad's problems/behaviour but unfortunately you cant and that is what a lot of the work will be about. Facing up to that very painful fact. You can do it though and it will reap benefits in the long run.

Hi Mummie, I've thought about it before but it's never gone further than that,(Thinking that it's for people with real problems I suppose?)

Is it not normal to struggle with relationships within families?

Sorry, I don't mean to sound dismissive or anything, I guess I have never been ready to address this particular issue before.

Can I ask what you think of what I have been posting?

How about a wee expresso for the tiredness?

Thereal, referring to my previous post I think that it's only now dawning on me that I'm unhappy about this. Up until recently I thought that my family was "normal"and that game playing like this went on in all families, and I suppose to an extent it does but with us it's getting to the point where my relationship with my dad is deteriorating and I can't play along with it anymore.

Sorry that should hae been espresso, before I get lynched!

lol @ confused control freak! I'm tired, too, I'm afraid. Knackering work, this self-awareness malarkey

DAP, what you said you're looking for is, indeed, therapy. I do believe you're in a great position to start by yourself, though. I know what you meant about Pandora's box! Thing is, it sort of opens itself - you can slam the lid shut again, but it'll only force itself open later (as I know to my cost). You've only written a little bit about yourself and your family here; I can't possibly know all the right questions to ask. I can only offer you a couple of tips from the beginning of my therapy. Here they are :)

Try drawing a diagram of your family, with circles for each person including yourself. Draw different-sized circles according to how 'large' each person is in your mind, and arrange them - with joining lines, if you like - to reflect the relationships between you. Don't spend too long on this, let it come out the way you feel. What does it tell you? You might feel like adding circles for DH and DCs (if you have them). Post here, if you like, about what you discover. Draw a second diagram with yourself as the biggest circle, in the middle, and the others to suit what you feel would be a more suitable arrangement.

Using your 'emotional brain', write one short sentence to describe each member of your family including yourself. If you're more of a visual person, draw little caricatures instead.

Taking the characters you've just defined, create a short story. Is your story a play/film, a fairy story, a documentary, a novel, a poem? Is it comic, tragic, romantic, happy or sad? Sexy, violent, dreamlike, gritty?

These little exercises can be quite revealing as to where you're at with your relationships - and what questions to ask next. I hope you have fun with them!

I think I'll try that Grace!

Yes its all very tiring and I have been boring you all discussing it for the most part of the day!

I think that maybe therapy could work and I'll give it some serious thought- problem is I live in a very rural area and it may not be so easy to get to.

In the meantime I'll just rabbit on here for a while and read what you very wise ladies have to say!!

And god yes about Pandora'sbox, been forcing it shut for a wee while now but it aint working dammit!

Am crushed, too many people angry at me and wanting 2 beat me emotionally want 2 hide am asking 4 help waiting ... Want 2 curl up in ball and hide