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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

statley homes thread - dysfunctional families

889 replies

Mummiehunnie · 11/08/2010 16:53

I had a look back and could not find the old thread, for adult children who grew up in unhealthy dysfunctional families, and were abused as a result!

OP posts:
ally90 · 16/09/2010 10:02

HELP! Anyone around? Seriously ill relative support needed...

Message through MIL to DH to me last night...its vague, dh does not do 'detail'...

One of my parents rang MIL yesterday to say my uncle is seriously ill with cancer, treatment has failed. DH speculated that it sounded serious and that I should get in contact asap. He's not one for accepting any of my mothers rubbish, he thinks this is a genuine one due to contact being through my aunt, who is a scary old school teacher lady.

Sooooooo, just about to (while bricking it...thinking of making call on loo...with sound effects...) scary aunt (really don't like her...love my uncle). Been out of contact for a couple of years, don't want to give her a turn as well...rather scared that my parents are camping at their house (other end of country to them...)and just well...bricking it. Thought of writing but could be too late, but being out of contact with elderly relatives for a while it could say that I don't care...well do care but it a 'lets leave that to another day way.' Left it so long cause I'm worried about indirect contact with parents and they may back them up...

This sucks...I hate being scared. Right going to do the evil deed...uncle may have gone already...or could answer phone...or my parents could answer phone...oh crap... crap crap crap...cold sweaty hands...must get a grip... have notes in front of me...must not let scary aunt get to me...I am her equal...I am her equal...deep breaths...hope I don't hyperventilate...now that would be rather embarressing...

help!

ally90 · 16/09/2010 10:13

No answer, left message on answer phone, oh crap my heart... hoping uncle knows he's seriously ill...otherwise if he takes message he does now...last time I rang and said its 'ally' there was a long silence from my aunt...clearly wracking her brains...bit embarressing, I had to remind her...that says how often I'm in contact...don't like ringing due to having to have painful stilted conversation with her first, uncle talks hind legs off a donkey...lovely and easy to talk to...will leave it another hour? Or ring this aft? She could be at hosp, they could have been at home while he breathed his last then flipping phone starts ringing...oh dear....what is happening...

IseeGraceAhead · 16/09/2010 14:34

OK, stop panicking :) Make a cup of tea. Think about where your panic's coming from. After you've identified your real feelings, evaluate them - are they relevant, appropriate and helpful? If not, acknowledge them and let them go.

My guess is that your only feeling that fits all three criteria is concern over your uncle's health. If he's in a hospice, how can you find out the address without walking an emotional gauntlet - have you a reasonably sane cousin or another aunt/uncle, who will have the details?

Seriously sick people don't need frenzied visits - but they do appreciate care, concern and respect. So write him a nice letter.

Good luck :)

IseeGraceAhead · 17/09/2010 15:43

I'm starting to feel more anger toward my mum. Over the past few years, I've come to recognise the pivotal part she played in creating the problems I grew up with, and have been feeling angry about it. I've had several difficult discussions with her, have developed a more adult understanding of her - and I do feel compassion for her, woman to woman. In her world-view, my compassion excuses her as she excuses herself, but it's not so. I'm quite capable of understanding & empathising with her, while entertaining great contempt for the woman she is.

Her self-delusion is astonishing. Convincing herself of Dad's wit, charm, sexiness, good character and love for her, she reframed his sadism as stress-related bad temper. I don't think she did him any favours - his was a twisted soul and, had she challenged him properly, who knows whether he might have sought & found peace somehow? Not only did she deny what he was really doing to his family - systematic physical and psychological torture - but she consciously and deliberately chose her vision of a sexy marriage over the safety of her children.

By CHOOSING her denial, she inflicted it on us. My life has been shaped by the after-effects of growing up in this fakery. Whatever was good about my family life has been poisoned by mistrust, and that resulted in my mistrusting goodness where I find it. Whatever causes me pain is familiar and I accept it as my due; my destiny; my punishment for existing and for failing to deny it completely.

The last time we had A Talk, I reminded her of how I seriously believed that all men hit their wives. "I did, too", she said. She tells me her own father only hit her mother once. Either she's denied the facts of her own childhood, as she denied ours, or what she said just then was a lie. She is a complex invention, made out of layer upon layer of delusions, denials, lies and contradictions. And that was all I had for a mother.

Unlike me, Mum's very good at doing nothing. If she has to wait, she goes into a kind of trance: she looks very peaceful at those times. She tells me she "retreats into her core" but can't/won't describe what she finds there. I wonder whether her childhood was, in fact, similar to mine. Perhaps her 'retreat' is a form of disassociative fugue; perhaps this was her childhood survival mechanism. Perhaps she, too, grew up in a lie. If so, perhaps it explains how she found it easy to love a monster, and to demand her children love him too. She's the last survivor: I'll never know the truth, because she doesn't.

Her overwhelming selfishness shocks me. She tells me that, even without the social pressures on a woman to stay married, she wouldn't have left Dad because she loved him and the sex was great. This man was throwing her toddler children against walls, spewing floods of verbal hatred over them, beating them up for not being adults and for simply being, and he did the same to her. She loved him too much to leave. She is PROUD of that marriage! The cruel, selfish, idiotic bitch.

Girls learn about being a woman from their mother. Mine - verbally and by example - taught me to deny the truth of my life, to expect violence as my due, to trust nothing but deception ... and to lie about it all. What she taught me, more than anything, was to accept pain and be happy about it.

The many threads on Mumsnet, where OPs say "the children adore him" and "don't tell me to leave, I love him", make me feel agony for their children. How DARE they teach their children what my mother taught me?

I am nowhere near over it. This has taken me two hours to type; I keep having panic attacks. I am so angry - and feel so despairing - about the damage I've suffered! I doubt my ability to become healthy: the damage is so deeply rooted, and so complete :(

thisishowifeel · 17/09/2010 16:49

Oh grace. You poor love.

I do think that anger is good though. You should be angry! YOU have every right to be angry.

Maybe now is a good time to revisit John Bradshaw?

With much empathy from me....have a ((hug))
x

IseeGraceAhead · 17/09/2010 17:26

You're right, thisis. I've banged up against another layer, haven't I - and Bradshaw has the tools to break through it. The very thought exhausts me!

I'll fortify myself with chocolate, perhaps Wink
Thank you very much for your kind reply. It means something. x

therealsmithfield · 17/09/2010 17:40

grace I agree with thisis the anger is good and i think the anxiety is a huge clue. You are perhaps 'petrified' of these feelings you are having toward your mother. Feelings that were probably always there but have remained firmly buried.
Your mother let you down very badly, but dont feel this means 'you' are beyond repair. Getting to the core of your feelings is hellish but oh so necessary.
Deep breaths Grace-hold onto that anger it will help you heal.

toomanystuffedbears · 17/09/2010 18:18

Hi Grace,
You must feel disheartened to climb the mountain only to see bigger mountains beyond.

Don't give up.
Sorry I haven't been around much lately.
My toddler is climbing on me now, so I'll have to try to give you a better response later.
Thinking of you-take care.

toomanystuffedbears · 17/09/2010 18:18

Hi Ally,
Are you ok? Did you find out about your uncle?

thisishowifeel · 18/09/2010 09:22

Anger is key. I know I have huge amounts of supressed anger, and it has started to come out in drips, but I want it out. I want rid of any feelings linked to her. It may be a tsunami, but I am not afraid.

The other thing I have discovered is the degree to which hiding has been such a huge part of my existence. It was my coping mechanism, my survival strategy. It colours evry aspect of me. I spend all my time hiding. Where I work, singing, is hidden in a corner of my house and I hide behind a screen to work, partly for the sound, but I'm also hiding. Flipping clever that, that I worked out a way to be a singer, and can do it whilst sticking to the script, and hiding and being invisible. My visibilty and existence were too disturbing for my mother to deal with.

I was always fantastic at hide and seek, I once found a place so good, that the other kids gave up looking.

Hiding is safe and warm and no one can get you to destroy you can they?

electra · 18/09/2010 10:43

Hi everyone. I haven't posted on here for some time but I wanted to share that I have found a counselor and just had my 6th session. I really feel that this person will be able to help me. And for the first time I have found someone who is not judging me and what I say. She thinks that I will need 12-24 months of work. She wants to go carefully because of my bipolar diagnosis and not wanting to dig too deep too quickly (which could cause an episode).

What we seem to have established so far is that my emotions don't register at all and that my parents are big characters in my life, where I don't feature. When my counselor asks about my emotions, it's often impossible for me to describe what I feel about something - as though my emotional self is still only about 12 years old, because that part of me hasn't grown.

I am hoping that in doing this I will be able to take care of my children's emotions. Sometimes it is very hard to talk about things but I always feel comfortable.

My relationship with my parents continues to be difficult.

Does anyone else feel that their parents reject them as adults because their lives haven't turned out the way that they wanted?

IseeGraceAhead · 18/09/2010 13:47

I'm very happy for you, electra. I've often felt concerned about you and know how hard it's been for you to trust a counsellor enough to explore your feelings. Some of your process will be hard, I imagine, and it's good to have someone guiding you through it with patience and care.

Yes - it's sadly common for parents to live 'through' their children, and to get very cross when the children don't live up to their ambitions (for themselves)! It's the theme of many, many plays - and just think of all those pushy stage-school mothers, not to mention bitter parents whose eldest chose not to become "my son the doctor" after all! What did yours want you to become?

IseeGraceAhead · 18/09/2010 13:49

Ally, I'm very sorry for my bossy post about your uncle. I meant well, but should have kept my fingers off the keyboard until I had more time & head space for you.

electra · 18/09/2010 16:28

Grace, thanks - I'm very touched by your kind words. I'm not sure what my parents wanted - but they would always say 'why can't you be more like so-and-so' or 'anyone else would do X, but no - not you' - they've always been clear about what they didn't want - which seems to be me.

electra · 18/09/2010 16:29

I'm going to look at this thread now to catch up.

IseeGraceAhead · 19/09/2010 13:31

The anger's doing me good. I'm having to remind myself, quite delicately, to permit it. All of a sudden I see why I was so quick to learn about not denying children's feelings! This anger isn't 'bad' or misdirected rage; it's perfectly justified and comes from my "Little Professor", who had lies instead of a mother - and knew it was wrong! Thank you so much, thisis and smithfield, for permission :)

Eric Berne's very big on grandmothers. I've found out a bit more about mine from my mum.

My paternal GM knew all along that Grandad had a second 'wife' and child - she never told anyone until he was dead. So, while she was the most positive influence on my childhood, as a wife she was silently complicit in her husband's abuse. Born very poor in 1900, a Gypsy, she suffered shocking prejudice in her youth and was painfully class-conscious. She trapped Grandad into marriage by getting pregnant with Dad. So, although she was the only adult who loved me unconditionally (I'm so grateful for that!) - she would also have taught me that: sex is a bargaining tool; I should know my place; people are vile; wives put up with abuse.
Poor Granny. Not sure I know how to improve on those lessons; I'll give it some time.

My adorable maternal GF was, I've now identified, a vain Narcissist who mercilessly abused his wife psychologically, emotionally & financially. Possibly physically, too. In Mum's words, GM took comfort in God's love - trusting in her Bible and prayers as she couldn't trust her husband. She was a sweet-natured, worn-out woman who "married down" but was too well educated to resent it. She, also, will have conveyed to me that women must tolerate male abuse. Her religious fervour explains the "magical thinking" I've now managed to completely get rid of (hurrah!) and her class/education dissonance mirrors the lessons from Granny.

This explains a hell of a lot about my parents as well as myself & all my sibs.

I've just realised how clearly this post identifies me! Namechange on the way. If any of my rellies are reading this: feel free to discuss should you want to :) I won't bring it up unless you do. x

IseeGraceAhead · 19/09/2010 13:44

Magical thinking: We had one grandmother who believed God's love does magic, and another who believed in spells, witchcraft & folklore. Despite my parents' professed atheism (Mum's gone back to god now), it's no wonder that we all ended up with mystical ideas. I wasted YEARS on positive-thinking, force-of-nature, mumbo-jumbo type 'therapies' when I could have been doing psychotherapy and getting somewhere. These days, I can tell the difference between a psychological strategy and a puff of smoke. I am not knocking religion (or magic) per se, as I'm aware of the many tools they offer for psychological & emotional healing. Just saying it's important to know we are each the centre of our own universe, and have powers within it.

IseeGraceAhead · 19/09/2010 14:36

Last night I had a little conversation with my inner Child re: what to do about my inner Parent. I'd lost the knack of doing this after finishing 'Homecoming' - the anger business helped me along, so thanks again for that!

Enumerating the details, I established there is NOTHING I learned from my parents, that I couldn't have learned better elsewhere. Not a single sodding thing. Therefore I don't need them living inside my head! I need better sources of guidance, and am stepping up my (already energetic) efforts to find them. Meanwhile, my Child and Adult agreed on the most helpful response to any interjections from Parent. It is ... [ta dah] ... "Fuck off, you're crap" Grin

I'm feeling a bit jellified now; this inner work takes it out of a gal! Going to have a long, hot shower.

toomanystuffedbears · 19/09/2010 15:28

I think I get what you are saying, Grace.

Sometimes I get stuck with a delimma of 'not trusting myself'-that would be the 'fck ff Parent' you are talking about? I can not trust the Parent within that parents me. (Is that the critical voice? I think I can make a connection there.)

That Parent (within us) is the puff of smoke...all of that brainwashing, crap, 'tradition', crap, "What would Mom or Dad Do?', crap, crap, crap.

I will acknowledge for myself that I let go of 'what would Dad do?' and switched to a healthy 'what would I do' some years ago. It did feel liberating and I chringed whenever I heard Middle Sister say she counseled herself by asking 'what would Dad do?'...but I didn't know why.

-
I am almost through with Games People Play, WDYSAYSH is next and will order 3 Bradshaws this week.
-

Dh said something the other day that really pissed me off, yup, anger there. Ds is trying to choose a college and major. Ds had declared music/composition to be his life focus for a year or two now. But last week he decided to change (to computer webpage design/marketing) based on the subjective nature of music juries (and subsequent dismissal from programs) along with consideration that webdesign/marketing would pay a considerable amount for the effort given-in which he had an intern position this summer.

Dh said that he is disappointed in ds's choice saying I had influenced him with "my distorted view of reality". [anger]

I responded in the moment and said that was due to my crap childhood, which ds did not experience; and he will always be a musician whether he has a degree in it or not.

But perhaps there is a kernal of truth. I have always been very careful to validate my dc's feelings. If correction/discipline is needed, I vocalize what they are probably feeling-they acknowledge- then I give the why for not doing that and always try to offer a correct possibility, perhaps one of many correct choices-they can choose which correct one for themselves.

However, my social perspective probably has effected them. I have not been able to show them how to have friends...even though they have their own set of friends and have people over.

Professionally, I absolutely failed absolutely because of the social vacuume...office politics ate me for lunch. Subjective nature of architecture design made me an easy target to exploit (by men or women, btw). It wasn't a hard decision to give it up to be a sahm (although it took years to figure out why [bulsh]).

So that is my distortion of reality? I'm not a people person, a party girl?

I did not encourage ds to switch; I was just reading out of the college handbook. Ds will need to, get to, choose for himself (as long as it isn't architecture Wink).

But many communications with dh is now prefaced with 'in my distorted view of reality' in sarcasm. I know I need to stop it, because that is a form of self sabotage.
Still makes me angry, though.

Anger at my mother: I think I somehow dealt with my anger/numbness through years of martial arts training. This relieved the physical side of the stress but didn't explain it or resolve it. A rather literal form of fighting it, but I was sparring a puff of smoke, the Heart of Darkness, the nut is not in the shell.

toomanystuffedbears · 19/09/2010 15:31

bulsh
bullshit
Blush

electra · 19/09/2010 15:34

I worry about my children too. I worry that although I know their emotions need taking care of - perhaps I'm not doing it correctly - anyone else feel like this? Any tips?

Mummiehunnie · 19/09/2010 15:55

I don't have a great deal of time, I want to record for now, that I have come to a realisation this week that there is a family script of retaining rubbish, be it physical or emotional, I want to explore this further, and will get back to you if anyone is interested!

I will now have a look at your posts and if I have time respond to you if I have something releveant to add, hope you all are well x

OP posts:
Mummiehunnie · 19/09/2010 16:09

Wow, Grace, this anger is part of the healing, if is helping you understand things and search elsewhere for answers, trust the little professor... x

I was thinking about the issue you brought up about parents etc, your mother, maternal grandmother etc, were always going to go for men like your father/grandfather, it was the same for them as for you, it was in their upbringing, they were mothers who had committed to these men at a time when things were different, social pressures and chances for single mums where different, counselling and self awareness were not available, maybe there was a time in their lives when they looked for answers and a ways out, maybe your grandmother found that answer possibly from a priest in the bible as a way to cope and live her life which maybe she had no way of leaving or no way of understanding how she could leave, live a better life and be a better mother!

It does not excuse any of it, look at wife swap or any of those similar shows there are dysfunctional families all over the place, to varying degree's, we are fortunate we have the support to sort ourselves out so that it does not continue into another generation, that we have help, opportunities and guidance to make that change!

It does not take away from the dammed annoying unjustness of it all, it does not say what happened to you was right either, it is something about acceptance and understanding of how it happened!

Grace, have you ever considered fostering children? I think that may help you explore parenting and may help you and a child who grew up with difficulty in a positive way??

OP posts:
Mummiehunnie · 19/09/2010 16:10

Ally do you want to update us?

OP posts:
ally90 · 19/09/2010 20:23

I was hoping things would get going on this thread again! Anywa it all got busy in rl and I didn't have time to come and update till now...

Well...I better cut to the chase have to go again shortly...rang round uncles house, no reply, left message, rang hospitals, not there, so rang my other uncle (1st time in 5 years, was v scared) and he was pleased to hear from me, offered not to even tell my parents I had called, let alone pass on any info, said we could keep contact to cards, suggested only email contact if I wanted...he could not have been more reassuring...so folks lesson there is don't leave it 5 years to ask relatives! Or until they are dying...if you would like to have one last conversation...no matter how scared you are of making the call...not that I can talk Blush.

My uncle (the ill one) is in hospital, managed to speak to him this morning (thought I had missed my chance) and he sounded perky despite him having major surgery and he was v pleased to hear from me...I must say Grace I was a bit of a pest...left a couple of messages on their home phone and rang hospital direct line twice tho I did think the first time it had not rung tho apparently it had. But I have spoken to him, he said he was happy not to pass info back to parents (I said he could think about it (obviously not for too long given his cancer...)). I'm just writing him a letter with some other thoughts in so now writing the nice letter Wink. I did remember though how depressing my family could be tho Hmm not just because of ill health...they are always thinking depressing things...

Anyway nice to be in contact again...feel better for it...its been weighing on me about their mortality and I must must must contact them...done it now and feel better for it...hoping it does not backfire!

Thank you for your thoughts and support everyone

allyxx