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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

statley homes thread - dysfunctional families

889 replies

Mummiehunnie · 11/08/2010 16:53

I had a look back and could not find the old thread, for adult children who grew up in unhealthy dysfunctional families, and were abused as a result!

OP posts:
thefinerthingsinlife · 28/08/2010 20:32

You could be talking about me when you describe you family Sad The only differnce is it is both of my parents, my dad is the worst, but in fairness my mums not much better.

They too are completely ignoring the fact i'm going back to college. When I told my mum she said ok, then started telling me about her holiday, my dad hasn't acknowledged it at all.

I'm so pleased I posted, although I have cried Blush (I think that's proberly a positive step, at least I hope so) It's a relief to know i'm not the only one that feels like this

AttilaTheMeerkat · 28/08/2010 20:55

I previously found this written by Robert Burney helpful:-

There are four basic roles that children adopt in order to survive growing up in emotionally dishonest, shame-based, dysfunctional family systems. Some children maintain one role into adulthood while others switch from one role to another as the family dynamic changes (i.e. when the oldest leaves home, etc.) An only child may play all of the roles at one time or another.

(I recognise some of my own family and relations in the following, including myself. Within my own family unit when growing up I was the placater. I was also "trusted", well more like left, as a child to get on with it from mid teens. Was never praised outright for my successes unlike my brother and that is the case to this day. I have decided to continue my college course - that gets met with "oh". So I nowadays tell them the barest of minimums; they are simply not interested).

Responsible Child" - "Family Hero"
This is the child who is "9 going on 40." This child takes over the parent role at a very young age, becoming very responsible and self-sufficient. They give the family self-worth because they look good on the outside. They are the good students, the sports stars, the prom queens. The parents look to this child to prove that they are good parents and good people.
As an adult the Family Hero is rigid, controlling, and extremely judgmental (although perhaps very subtle about it) - of others and secretly of themselves. They achieve "success" on the outside and get lots of positive attention but are cut off from their inner emotional life, from their True Self. They are compulsive and driven as adults because deep inside they feel inadequate and insecure.

The family hero, because of their "success" in conforming to dysfunctional cultural definitions of what constitutes doing life "right", is often the child in the family who as an adult has the hardest time even admitting that there is anything within themselves that needs to be healed.

"Acting out child" - "Scapegoat"
This is the child that the family feels ashamed of - and the most emotionally honest child in the family. He/she acts out the tension and anger the family ignores. This child provides distraction from the real issues in the family. The scapegoat usually has trouble in school because they get attention the only way they know how - which is negatively. They often become pregnant or addicted as teenagers.
These children are usually the most sensitive and caring which is why they feel such tremendous hurt. They are romantics who become very cynical and distrustful. They have a lot of self-hatred and can be very self-destructive. This often results in this child becoming the first person in the family to get into some kind of recovery.

"Placater" - "Mascot" - "Caretaker"
This child takes responsibility for the emotional well-being of the family. They become the families 'social director' and/or clown, diverting the family's attention from the pain and anger.
This child becomes an adult who is valued for their kind heart, generosity, and ability to listen to others. Their whole self-definition is centered on others and they don't know how to get their own needs met. They become adults who cannot receive love, only give it. They often have case loads rather than friendships - and get involved in abusive relationships in an attempt to "save" the other person. They go into the helping professions and become nurses, and social workers, and therapists. They have very low self-worth and feel a lot of guilt that they work very hard to overcome by being really "nice" (i.e. people pleasing, classically codependent) people.

"Adjuster" - "Lost Child"
This child escapes by attempting to be invisible. They daydream, fantasize, read a lot of books or watch a lot of TV. They deal with reality by withdrawing from it. They deny that they have any feelings and "don't bother getting upset."
These children grow up to be adults who find themselves unable to feel and suffer very low self-esteem. They are terrified of intimacy and often have relationship phobia. They are very withdrawn and shy and become socially isolated because that is the only way they know to be safe from being hurt. A lot of actors and writers are 'lost children' who have found a way to express emotions while hiding behind their characters.

It is important to note that we adapt the roles that are best suited to our personalities. We are, of course, born with a certain personality. What happens with the roles we adapt in our family dynamic is that we get a twisted, distorted view of who we are as a result of our personality melding with the roles. This is dysfunctional because it causes us to not be able to see ourselves clearly. As long as we are still reacting to our childhood wounding and old tapes then we cannot get in touch clearly with who we really are.

The false self that we develop to survive is never totally false - there is always some Truth in it. For example, people who go into the helping professions do truly care and are not doing what they do simply out of Codependence. Nothing is black and white - everything in life involves various shades of gray. Recovery is about getting honest with ourselves and finding some balance in our life. Recovery is about seeing ourselves more clearly and honestly so that we can start being True to who we really are instead of to who our parents wanted us to be. (Reacting to the other extreme by rebelling against who they wanted us to be is still living life in reaction to our childhoods. It is still giving power over how we live our life to the past instead of seeing clearly so that we can own our choices today.) The clearer we can see our self the easier it becomes to find some balance in our life - to find some happiness, fulfillment, and serenity.

thefinerthingsinlife · 28/08/2010 21:19

I am the family scapegoat.

I fell pregnant when I was 17 (it was my now dh's baby) and my parents coercied me into getting a termination, which I still regret everyday and I have huge issues over.

I then fell pregnant again at 18 and moved out and got a place with dh, my dad told me i'd be back knocking at the door begging for a £5 to feed the baby. We never had to because sooner after dh was offered a trainning contract at a law firm.

Before dh I used sex as a way to validate myself and to get the attention I craved Sad. I had a few really shit men in my life.

Up until recently I had such self loathing, I always thought dh would leave me for someone better, and only in the last 8 months or so have I actually started to believe that he loves me.

therealsmithfield · 28/08/2010 21:31

I actually do think I role switched between caretaker/lost child and scapegoat.
My biggest worry is whether that is where my ds is heading. It has not been a good day for me and ds Sad
finer it is good to cry, getting in touch with all the buried sadness can be very healing, but it all take time and you need to treat yourself with kid gloves as you begin unearthing it all.

swallowedAfly · 28/08/2010 21:33

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swallowedAfly · 28/08/2010 21:35

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thefinerthingsinlife · 28/08/2010 21:47

Swallowed Sad My parents told me I couldn't possibley have the baby, it would ruin my life ect. Then they told me that they had sorted out a job for me at a big london salon and it was mine I just had to terminate the pregnancy(my dad's boss was a friend of the owners apparently) They then went on and on and bullied me and cojoled me, threatened to kick me out if I continued with the pregnancy for weeks until i gave in

therealsmithfield · 28/08/2010 21:50

swallowed Sad Your mother has failed you dreadfully.

I think the only reason I played the other roles too was because of my older sibling status. My mum needed me to look after the younger sibs. If they got into trouble though in my care I'd be scapegoated for it.
Db pulled the christmas tree over when I watching him. I was 7. I got screamed at, yet she used to leave me with him (she'd be in another room) for what felt like ages.
That'san example of just how intermingled the roles were.
Before my sibs came came along, I was left alone mostly. Plonked in front of the tv or a lost in a book. Heaven help me if I needed anything.

swallowedAfly · 28/08/2010 21:53

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swallowedAfly · 28/08/2010 21:57

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therealsmithfield · 28/08/2010 22:10

swallowed I identified so strongly with 8 year old you. My father left us for another woman (although my mother convinced him to come back in the end). I was 3/4.
It wasnt as bad in that she didnt physically abandon me (although perhaps she did and I dont remember), but she did emotionally.
I began wetting the bed as I became so distressed. I was told to stop as I was embarrassing her.
Just wanted you to know I get it.x

swallowedAfly · 29/08/2010 00:11

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swallowedAfly · 29/08/2010 22:14

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therealsmithfield · 30/08/2010 11:49

Thanks swallowed busy living yesterday but dh working today so feeling a bit Sad. Im sure its the whole Bh thing- I imagine everyone in the whole world is visiting family (even though I know logically that's not true).
How are you feeling today? Any more contact with your sister?

tmsb Didnt want you to feel ignored re your feelings about your middle sis.
Im thinking that perhaps this is a projection on your part and seeing it that way may release you from feeling so much guilt. The fact is you cant really 'know' unless you ask her what your sister is really feeling. So the feelings of abandonment are really your own feelings, which you want to get rid of? Bit like a hot potato? Bingo-guilt. Just a thought.

therealsmithfield · 30/08/2010 11:54

I also wanted to apologise to everyone reading and posting on here for my outburst the other day.
I do feel there is a need for people to feel they can be more open and direct, as long as they are being respectful and tactful.
I just think I could have voiced that opinion differently maybe.
I think I came accross as aggressive and that that agression was directed toward grace which wasnt my intention.
I'm very sorry grace if I caused you any discomfort. Perhaps we were both jumping back into our old roles of protectors.
Hope you are ok. x

toomanystuffedbears · 30/08/2010 13:06

Hi Smithfield,
Thanks regarding abandonment/guilt and middle sister. I do know that I can not presume what she is thinking; counselor at least did train me on that concept Smile. "I think what my middle sister thinks is..."

But one thing I do know is that middle sister can not be trusted to be honest without some kind of hidden agenda that will undoubtedly swing back around for her superiority bid. Yes, I know it is my problem of thoughts about abandonment rather than actually abandoning her, and also the associated entourage of guilt, fear, family obligation, duty, etc, etc.

How can I trust my brain?

Often when I make a critical observation (spoken or not) I have come to realize that I am guilty of the very same thing! Hello self-awareness. Look in the mirror before I speak! The fact that I was abandoned-and perhaps I am still trying to get my head around that fact-has me looking to see how I am guilty of that myself. Of course being trained in the atmosphere of abandonment, it wouldn't be surprising. And typing/thinking about this just now I see the effect that has had on my inability to form/keep connections with others (ie: friends). However, I have maintained a marriage for 20 years, and my dc are certainly respected for who they are Grin. Another piece of the puzzle. I think I relate to men differently than to women because I had some sort of healthy (if not entirely developed) connection with my father. Perhaps I do have engrained trust issues with women that go way deep.

Another nugget from Pete Walker was the comment that the C-PTSD folks have a 'limited' life experience. That is ringing around in my brain and it is true. The limitation is in fellowship for me and along with some other phychological baggage associated with the 'freeze' mechanism.

Meanwhile my 30th high school reunion is next month and I have the pleasure Hmm of reading the reunion update emails of who and who has maintained contact for all those years, and who and who has attained the pennacle of their carrers. I am happy for them, sincerely, but can not help and should not ignore my feelings of grief/mourning at the effect my disastrous childhood has had on my life. I went to the 10th and 20th reunions, but I have decided to skip this one. Look forward, not back.

therealsmithfield · 30/08/2010 13:40

tmsb Sorry think that I didnt explain very well. I cant cut off from my father for similar reasons. I focus on how that will make him feel. Hurt, abandoned and in pain.
I think though it is my own fear of feeling any of those things that stops me but I project it onto him.
On the other hand I was trained to put 'his' (and my mothers needs first.
Sorry probably not much help.

therealsmithfield · 30/08/2010 14:05

And re the reunion emails. Perhaps just delete them without reading. Brutal I know but I am thinking of deleting my facebook account for similar reasons. Im fed up with torturing myself by looking at pictures of my sibs playing happy families.
Your sister is an adult and so is reponsible for her own actions. It was her behaviour that made it necessary for you to put up those (oh so) necessary boundaries. Look how far you have come because of them.
As you grow stronger perhaps you may loosen those boundaries but will she have changed her behaviour as a result? Doubtful right.
Focus on that behaviour and remind yourself of why it is what it is.

toomanystuffedbears · 30/08/2010 14:10

Yes, exactly, Smithfield...training.
Here I am, "Oh, TMSB, having a private pity party?" Rediculing and dismissing myself (!) has no doubt hindered my healing process. Bad Inner Critic! Bad!

Of course you help!! Just bouncing ideas around is invaluable because it opens up possibilities/perspectives. The 'Ah-ha' moments have been too many to count. I think that is the gold heart of this thread.

My recurring dream of abandonment of me being homeless on board a Navy ship (not a stowaway)...is being transformed. Lately I have been thriving in the environment, an accepted crew member, even an officer. Family would disparage my choice to be on a ship, but I would rejoice in it-'flight' anyone? Wink Perhaps I missed my calling. So my house will be my ship and it is ok to thrive and I will hammer nails in walls and paint and (gasp) decorate. I may find out who I am.

Oh and I recently did something I've never done before: I bought a lawn ornament! Ha! It a concrete owl, about 8" tall.

On to buying proper pajamas for myself, instead of sleeping in my track suit. Blush

therealsmithfield · 30/08/2010 14:20

tmsb I still sleep in my big baggy nighties bought when I was (end term) pg with ds. Blush Blush.
Yes its important to feel ok with the sadness. You have lost a sister. That is ver very sad. You will feel many emotions on the grieving spectrum.
Its ok to feel bad about it, its normal in fact.
Important to remember though that the loss was 50% her responsibility.
I think if I cut my father off I would literally throw up with grief/guilt/fear etc.

toomanystuffedbears · 30/08/2010 14:30

x post Smithfield.
Thank you for validating that again for me.
My boundaries are 100% consequence of her behavior, and no, she won't change. She will only get worse.

She has made no attempt to contact me, verifying more that A)she has moved on to other supply, and B)she is punishing me by not allowing my life to be graced by her presence (or presents).

Gifts. So contentious-she was purchasing license to keep me subordinate. Last round of birthday gifts (I probably posted about it before) she gave me the same thing I gave her-a gift card. It was to her favorite upscale grocery store that she goes on and on and on about. One finally opened up in my area, so I got her a gift card. And mailed it with a nice card. Six months later she gives me one (though not the same physical card, I think). But I do not wax on and on about a grocery store...Hmm.

Her birthday is next week, 50th-(kind of have a lot of crap in my brain with this and the reunion)...I thought of just sending a card, no gift which is what I have requested when she has asked me what I want-that was a while back. That would disrupt her dynamic. Anyway, this time I think I'll give one more chance. I'll do a gift card to a nice restaurant, over the internet, and send no card (no personal touch). If she bounces that back to me, I won't mind Grin but the game will be over.

Why send her anything at all? I know, I hear you everyone! I am working up to it, really I am.

My oldest sister's bd is the same day (no wonder I am so fu@&ing confused!) and she'll get what she always asks for-gift card to home improvement center.

Thanks for letting me vent that yet again.

toomanystuffedbears · 30/08/2010 14:46

x post again
I know I bear some responsibility in the relationship. After all, I put up with being treated like that for decades. Having next to no social skills, my standing up for myself was done with all the ackwardness and stupidity one would expect. But it was done, had to be done, regardless of how.

I do acknowledge that it is my fault that I will not be her doormat anymore. What a line...maybe I should send her an apology? Kidding!

No, really, she gets 100% of the responsibility, unless the other 50% was due to her crappy childhood.
_
another vent:

While visiting Oldest Sister, recently...
her toxic dh likes my toddler who is 2.5. She was into a terrible twos meltdown and he said over and over-"Look at your face. Your face is on wrong; it is on upside down. You need to turn your face around. You need to turn your face around. " and he wouldn't stop for the whole episode that will last the same amount of time anyway. I was so irritated but didn't say anything that would set him off-we were only there for 2 nights. For the record: my children are allowed to feel sad if they are sad, they are allowed to be mad if they feel mad, they are allowed to cry if they need to cry.

Next time I may be too tempted and say he can have his fake faces if that works for him (not! he has serious anger management issues) but my dc are allowed to feel what they feel.

toomanystuffedbears · 30/08/2010 18:41

Sorry about the previous post, Smithfield. I didn't mean to offend.

I understand that in 'normal' relationships it is 50/50; unless it is a marriage then both parties need to go 100/100. And I do freely admit that I am challenged in what I am supposed to do to meet my 50% without going to a 88% needy charity or creepy stalker 99%; (and how do I ensure that I receive my 50?).

Could you explain what you meant? I took it that you were saying that I'm responsible for 50% of an abusive relationship (noting that I am the victim)...I just have to respectfully disagree.

therealsmithfield · 30/08/2010 21:11

no that isnt what I meant. Im not going to attempt to explain because Im afraid it might be misconstrued.
I was trying (quite honestly) to be helpful.
I think I just need to bow out of this thread for a while.

IseeGraceAhead · 31/08/2010 00:27

Terrified of putting words in Smithfield's mouth, but I sort of thought like this, TMSB: You and Sis both had screwed-up parents, therefore we may expect you both to have ishoos - 100% due to crappy family dynamic. She then "chose" (unconsciously, most likely) to perpetuate toxic behaviour towards you. That choice makes her 50% responsible, the other 50% is still your parents.

Don't write her off forever; enlightenment often starts to trickle through after about 40yo. I'm seeing it (not much, but some) in my own sibs.

Smithfield: Fucky Nell says stop "BLAMING" yourself for everything! (She also added, it's not all about yooo all the time - but she is my inner critic, she will drop these comments in Grin )

The current stage of 'my stuff' seems out of whack with Stately Homes, so I'm doing it in Feminism. Still reading and learning, though ... xxx