statley homes thread - dysfunctional families

[Mummiehunnie]

I had a look back and could not find the old thread, for adult children who grew up in unhealthy dysfunctional families, and were abused as a result!

You know I love you even though I sometimes disagree, don't you?!
And ... I am a pedant

grace For the record I wish I'd had the gumption to have stood up for you back then 'properly' instead of fence sitting. I confess 'any' confrontation sends me into Flight response.
I have never seen 'any' abusive tendencies (FLEAS) at all from you. You are one of the most generous hearted people I have ever come accross and I mean that genuinely.
You have not upset me at all.
I just felt frustrated and upset at seeing someone who I have fondness for and who has helped me precisely because of her very direct approach. After all, Every abused child (adult child) needs a champion and on MN 'she' (attilla) was mine.
Its the thread as a collective I feel angry with but Im well aware that in my present mindset I too could be projecting?
On the other hand I will stick up for people from now on, which is the lesson I learnt from the previous episodes.
Atilla's approach is much like marmite and I respect some love it some will loath it. I feel in my heart what she says is always with the best intentions.
Im sorry for making you uncomfortable-I probably feel distanced by my own emotions and the latest flux of posts have made it worse.
I should have thought more carefully before posting about how it be percieved by you grace. Sorry.

Blimey, smithfield, you must be feeling fragile atm ... when I thanked you for the challenge, I meant it :)
Thank you for you kind words AND for your helpful ones! Hope the weekend is good to you. x

I do realise that.
Luv you too Grace:). Hey, we're cool honestly.

Smithfield and TMSB are also people I have a great deal of respect for. Infact all who post on here have my due respect.

Anyhoo, I have a question for you all re my mad as a box of frogs inlaws which I would appreciate some help with.

Do you think MIL is at all concerned that her resident NPD son has not talked to his brother i.e my DH (and by turn me and DS) for nearly three years now?. I ask this as she's never talked to us about this matter presumably because at an emotion level she is a cold fish and very much a closed book. Losing him as a BIL is no great loss to me in view of how he has behaved towards DH but I would think this would affect DH far more. I have stated to DH that I don't think he'll ever talk to us again.

And MIL still regards me as an afterthought, she hardly said two words to me when she visited here the other day (DH invited her). Arf!.

Any comments would be much appreciated.

Yes fragile- Or may be still tentative on voicing my true feelings. Because when I say standing up for others maybe Im hiding behind that and what I really mean is saying what I really think.
So here comes another- I am totally with Atilla on this. Lets make this thread safe again to just be ourselves.
What is wrong with being direct? If that is our nature or if that how someone wants to call it?
Table10 was 'asking' for an opinion and Attilla gave hers as did others theirs.
No-one on here would 'question' whether someones abuse is real or not and that is set in stone.
But if someone asks 'was it that bad? I mean they took me to stately homes and all that'..it should be alright to say 'yes it bloody well was that bad, off with their heads'.

attilla I guess it is down to your dh and how he wants to deal with it but his family also impact on you.
You are within your rights to say you dont want her to visit at your home if that is the way she is going to behave.
The woman has no boundaries and refuses to set any for BIL and most likely that wont change. But you can set 'your' boundaries for you and ds.
Unfortunately that is all you can do without dh on side.
What kind of contact can you cope with/believe is healthy with Mil?
Does she have a good relationship with ds?
It sounds like you would like DH to be more up front or aware of his own family?

Lol @ off with their heads, Smithfield! Now, wouldn't that make life more straightforward

Atilla, I can only suppose that your MIL is a triangulator and BIL currently has no use for DH. It never worries my mother that we rarely speak amongst ourselves; in fact she sounds quite put out if we have! Is it bothering DH?

Hi Smithfield,

I have broken down your reply in quote marks and have replied underneath:-

"I guess it is down to your dh and how he wants to deal with it but his family also impact on you".

Correct!.

"You are within your rights to say you dont want her to visit at your home if that is
the way she is going to behave".

Indeed. She only visited this time (with her much nicer sister) to see the holiday snaps.

"The woman has no boundaries and refuses to set any for BIL and most likely that wont change. But you can set 'your' boundaries for you and ds".

Yes and yes again. I never now visit this lot without DH.

"Unfortunately that is all you can do without dh on side".

I think he is on side to an extent but I honestly do not think he really knows how to deal effectively with them. There are complicated loyalties here particularly with regards to his mother. It would be somewhat easier if he actually disliked his Mum but to him she can rarely if ever do wrong (but I have noticed that in the last year or so he has started saying things he would never have said before). I realise that he has been conditioned by her over the years to think that she did everything for them whilst her H (who has shied away from all responsibility anyway as she likes to be in charge) took the back seat. His relationship with his Dad is practically non existant.

"What kind of contact can you cope with/believe is healthy with Mil?"

I can manage the current amount of contact and I don't readily speak to her unless I have to. I really do not want any more than there already is.

"Does she have a good relationship with ds?"

Well she seems to think she does but she does not see him very often. She says ,"oh thank you herberttttttttttttttttt (this is not DS's real name mind but you get the idea. With apologies to any Herberts) in a high pitched sing song voice. Being 11 now he takes no real notice of her and actually calls MIL by name. I don't think DH has noticed that but I have!.

"It sounds like you would like DH to be more up front or aware of his own family?"

Yes I would but I cannot do that for him.

Thank you Smithfield, your response is much appreciated:).

Hi Grace,

re your comment:-

"Atilla, I can only suppose that your MIL is a triangulator and BIL currently has no use for DH. It never worries my mother that we rarely speak amongst ourselves; in fact she sounds quite put out if we have! Is it bothering DH?"

Oh indeed re your first sentence!. I have previously read about drama triangles within dysfunctional families and the three of them (i.e MIL, her DH and BIL) fit that perfectly. Their roles keep changing too; one day one can be persecutor, the next day rescuer. I think I need to try and understand that particular part of this unhealthy dynamic some more. She certainly is a triangulator and she also likes being in charge along with knowing everything that goes on.

They'd all make a good case for that pyschiatrist Dr Raj Persaud.

BIL being NPD as well (am not sure you were aware of this) certainly has no use for DH. Does his family bother H, well to an extent it does but then he says that his main priorities these days are our son and me:).

I don't personally think this will ever be resolved. I can see us in years down the line communicating with his brother through Solicitors when their parents' estates get wound up.

Thank you Grace for your thoughts, again much appreciated:).

A

I don't really know what to say on here.

In the last few weeks/months I have realised my family are toxic, my parents are competative parents (I'm reading Toxic Parents) and my nan has the train of thought that it is her way or no way.

I haven't spoken to my nan and aunt since January, and I've barely seen my parents during the last 3 months (I know this is probally for the best)

I feel like the outsider in my family and that they alway think i'm going to fail at what I do (I'm worried they are right. I' due to start college next week to do an access course and i'm terrified of failing and looking stupid)

KK :) Yes, you had said BIL was a Narc, therefore he'll onl be bothered to make contact when there's something he wants. I agree, observing the dramas can be very entertaining and instructive - it can help to keep you out of it emotionally, too, I find.

I very much doubt that it ever will be resolved, Atilla, if resolved means acting like a family who care about each other's feelings. Following your reply to Smithfield, I wonder whether DH came to terms with this a while back, but has kept quiet out of ... loyalty? desire not to implicate you? The little remarks sound very encouraging to me!

If I've read you wrong and DH is fretting over it, there could be some merit in discussing it - then ringing the brother. If BIL drops himself in it by being Narcy, so much the better perhaps.

ps: I like your DS's personal disengagement tactic!

Well done on reading the book, finerthings, and on spotting your parents in there. It takes courage.

You will fail if you believe they know best. Now you've made the decision to figure out the dynamics in your family, you're free to decide if they know best or not. What do you think/feel about that?

It's okay to succeed, you know.

Attilla I suppose this is similar to my ds (golden one) and me. He has no use for me currently. I wont play ball and speak to my mother and so what good am I if I wont play fair, stick to the rules, and be the good little scapegoat I was brought up to be?
Could this be true here? If your Dh says his priorities are with you and ds that is half the battle. It means emotionally he has cut off from them to quite a large extent.
But I wonder if this pushes your buttons now because of your own past?
If you have feelings come up during interactions with the in laws that are at all painful or even very strong they may be triggering you? Just a thought. x

finerthings You have described a specific dynamic that applies to my family and me...you said;

'I feel like the outsider in my family and that they alway think i'm going to fail at what I do (I'm worried they are right. I' due to start college next week to do an access course and i'm terrified of failing and looking stupid)'

Thank you for defining that for me. I think this is where I am struggling myself. I feel an overwhelming sense of abandonment that wont leave me.

Grace is right you have to find some self belief from somewhere because unfortunately they wont change and so you are going to have to work hard to re-programme your brain.
They have left you feeling as though you will fail but that is because they have let you down as a family.

Can I ask if you did get attention for not doing things (defined by them as ) 'correctly' or for 'failing' by their definition of what that means?

And congratulations finerthings on getting onto the course.

Grace I feel really sad that I will never be good enough in their eyes. Even though I know in the back of my mind there's only one person I need to be good enough for and thats me. I just can't seem to properly realise that iyswim,

therealsmithfields yes, even thought it was negative attention. It was still attention.

and that's where it gets tricky because when the only attention is negative then one can end up self sabotaging. Its a subconcious way of staying close or tricking ourselves into feeling that sense of belonging.
Does that sound familiar?

and yes grace it would make life more straight forward. Glad I made you chuckle.

I don't think I ever on purpose knowingly set out to fail, but maybe unknowingly I do.

For example when I finished school I when to college and got an NVQ, I managed to finish my course 5 months early and passed all my examinations with flying colours. A week later I descided that not what I wanted to do any more and went and worked in a supermarket.

swallowed Really feel for you, I know exactly where you coming from.
It is very painful to only be allowed to exist for others in the guise they have decided for you.
That is the bottom line, for 'me' at least. I dont exist for them unless I 'am' the scapegoat.
Your sister has been trained to follow suit and she has too much at stake to take your side against your mother Im afraid

My mother labelled me as the stupid one-the failure. When I got in to uni (a good one too) to study law, albeit later on in life I thought she would be ecstatic. I was no longer letting her down. Her reaction was 'Oh'. After that she pretty much ignored I was there, same with my brother. It was as if it didn't fit so it wasn't happening.
Achievement=abandonment.
Failure=acknowledgement

Think Im finally getting this whole script thing for real now.
I also think this is what is happening to me at this very point in time. I am stepping out of the script.
No longer in a job that makes me miserable.
Healthy and fit (was very out of shape now go running twice a week)
Dh business is going from strength to strength
Kids are doing really well
I have stood up to my mother

This is why they dont speak to me (as in mid bro and sil). I no longer exist, because I am not the smithfield they need me to be for them. Arggh. Yet it is bringing on severe panic and anxiety because of my fear (even now) of being abandoned by them

Grace - I also like my son's disengagement tactic as well.

My BIL is narcissistic and on one occasion came very close to being sectioned (this did not happen primarily because MIL objected; parents can object to their adult children being sectioned and they did). BIL is truly a right piece of work and can be very nasty when he wants to be. My ILs trigger me because I now realise that to them image and acting "worthy" within the community only matters. They like the power and adulation it brings them. They are hypocritical in the extreme, particularly FIL.

I think my DH has seen two of them i.e BIL and FIL for what they really are so keeps well clear of them these days.