privacy and human rights,and good manners within marriage

[alwayssearchingforanswers]

I take issue with posters on the relationships forum about looking at partners phones and laptops for evidence of affairs.
This strikes me as fundamentally wrong and against human rights and the dignity f the partner,not to mention poor behaviour on the part of the snooper.
I was always taught never to open other peoples mail,read diaries,even read postcards unless you have asked.
I find it ridiculous that people on here encourage women to sleuth their partners phone and pc when they have no right...affair or not.
Marriage is a relationship,just because the relationship has gone wrong does not mean you can stoop to foul means....you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Pathetic,actually

personally I am far too lazy to snoop but I wouldn't blame anyone who felt the urge
marriage isn't a 'relationship' it's a contract op

What about the human rights of the partner being cheated on?

What about the cheating partner's 'good manners'!

To me, it is good manners not to cheat on your partner/spouse. If you decide to do so, then your privacy regarding your means of contact with the OW/M is null & void.

Often, if you took time to read the threads on here, you will see that the cheated partner has/had no evidence until they started looking at these things. So easy it is to deny unfaithful actions. And the cheated partner lives in limbo, not knowing & not being able to prove anything!

try to get to the bottom of it by all Oh yes, of course...because many unfaithful partners own up so easily, don't they!

Tell me, are you being unfaithful or are you being cheated on?

I'd be fascinated to see what what the OP would do if she opened up the internet and it went directly to a child porn site. Would she look further or would she think "oh, musn't be rude, I'll leave it"

Or if it opened up to a message on facebook from her husband to his ex saying "text soon" when he has said, only a couple of days after the message was sent, that he hadn't been in touch for ages.

So much anger and vitriol on a womens site
Unbelievable...open your minds to what I am actually saying...the end doesn't justify the means

Is this the jerry springer show??
It is about as balanced

AF...actually I said I am irritated by the obsession with the over sanctity of marriage shown in an unbalanced way on the rel board...by yourself for example...I've noticed it for months and felt irritated enough to state my view....no trolling [another daft obsession]...just my belief and standing up for the opposite POV for once

For example why do you insult women who are having affairs?..very immature and blinkered
And I'm definitely not on the floor...another aggressive analogy dear me!

That does not equate with me loving affairs and other daft accusations

give me strength

This site is becoming ridiculous

alwayssearchingforanswers

Check his laptop and his phone and his phone and you might find some.

"So much anger and vitriol on a womens site"

Are we little women not allowed to be angry then ?

Hmm. Sometimes it's the only way you can prove to yourself that you are not mental and that your partner is lying to you, but on the other hand, some people are neurotically jealous and insecure to the point of abusiveness. If your previous partner cheated on you, that doesn't mean you are justified in snooping and prying and forbidding your new partner to associate with single people.

Women can be angry but spiteful vitriol because you can't discuss something properly just lets the site down,and in the name of sisterhood even worse

doesn't make sense!!

always are you daftpunk?

OP, difficult as it may be for you to comprehend, no-one has closed their mind to what you are saying. We understand perfectly well. We just disagree.

So to sum up, your position is that the sanctity of marriage is overrated, that we shouldn't criticise women having affairs, and even if we have reason to suspect an affair on the part of our partner, and know that the partner won't come clean without evidence, we shouldn't gather that evidence?

Are you sure you're not having an affair yourself? You do seem to be an advocate of letting them run.

Disagreeing is fine...but I don't like the way it involves insults and aggressive terminology as a way of putting me down as opposed to just normal discussion.

I'm not having an affair.

But if I were or indeed if I wasn't I don't really see what difference it would make....still entitled to have an opinion...those questions I have noticed are asked on the rel board as a prelude to verbally abusing the woman having the affair

Gosh. What nonsense.

You dont sem to be offering any alternative OP.

What should somebody with legitimate concerns do in the face of a partner who pleads innocence/ goes on the offensive when challenged?

You seem to overlook how very common it is for the unfaithful party to deny, deny, deny until they are confronted with overwhelming evidence.

Can you imagine being the one with suspicions in that circumstance?

I agree with the OP's basic premis - and I suspect that actually most people do. Snooping on anyone is unpleasant but I guess the argument by most is that the end justifies the means.

TBH I would be very disappointed if my DH went through my emails/phone records. There is nothing to hide but I would be saddened that he felt the need.

I often wonder how those partners who haven't done anything wrong feel when they learn that they have been spied on.

Always I 'snooped' once and had I not, my baby would have been blinded and I would have been rendered infertile.

/boden /4 /etc!

AF and others are absolutely right.

OP

I don't think there's much wrong snooping if you think your partner is up to no good. Why be a muppet and be walked all over?

My df had numerous affairs and to cover made my dm feel she was mad. She did snoop and I blame him for making her feel so insecure that she felt she had to.

The upshot is that she found out about (yet) another affair and was able to counter sue df for divorce for infedelity and it helped her reach a better settlement. By snooping she was able to highlight that he'd been setting up secret bank accounts so he could say that he was poor and had few assets to split.

Yes, she also tracked down the ow - she was naturally curious to see who df planned to spend the rest of his life with and who was carrying his baby.

What's so fecking wrong with that?

If you can actually visualise your partner cheating behind your back, then you are with the wrong person. Full stop. Whether they actually are (or not) is almost immaterial.
If it's just your present partner that you have doubts about, then it's quite possibly his fault. If, however, it's a recurring theme with all/most of your relationships, then you've got a problem.

I wonder if the OP has been on the wrong end of an unjustified snooper. Because, don't forget, sometimes the person being spied on has done nothing wrong and feels furious and humiliated at having his/her communications policed like this. While some people are utterly open about every aspect of their lives, others like to have a little privacy (for instance, loads of MNers hate the idea of their partners reading their posts on MN because they like to vent anonymously now and again - a snoopy partner who logs on here to read his DW/DP's postings generally gets an earful off the rest of us). Someone said way upthread that they thought initialy that this thread was going to be about abusive snooping and controlling partners. Some people are so blinded by monogamism - the pathological form of monogamy where people decide that they own another person whatever that person thinks about the idea - that they feel they can justify any kind of abuse or dishonest behaviour (violence, criminal damage, theft of property, fraud) by saying 'But I thought s/he was Having An Affair'.

With you on that, SGB. Being accused of stuff you don't even have the pleasure of doing is not comfortable. I once went apeshit when XH told one of the DCs to help himself from my handbag instead of waiting for me to pass him the purse. There was absolutely nothing in there worth hiding, but it was my handbag.

XH was obsessed with the idea that I was cheating or planning to cheat, and would certainly have stooped to snooping if he'd had a clue how to go about it. I would have been exceedingly miffed if I'd caught him at it. Mind you, even though there was no evidence to find because I hadn't done anything, he would still be convinced I was up to something. He once sat next to me while I was chatting to a friend online and started to get all riled that I was flirting with him. Flirting? I said. I don't flirt with this guy, I think it would terrify him. "Of course you were! You were talking about your heart!" Er, what I said was, my heartiest congratulations on your achievement... After that I stopped encouraging him to watch me on the computer as I realised that complete transparency wasn't doing any good.

I think it's different, though, when you have strong reasons to suspect there is something going on and prying into OH's phone, emails etc is the only way to find out. It should only be a last resort, but it is an option. The OP said that it would be different if it was something criminal such as child porn rather than mere cheating, but my argument is, how do you know what it is until you've looked? Maybe you suspected an affair but he was actually doing something even worse. Maybe you uncover a gambling habit instead of a mistress. But the bottom line is, if you know something is definitely wrong and have tried the more obvious ways of getting the relationship back on track (I'm a great believer in communication, personally), a little underhand detective work may be the only way of finding out what the XXXX is going on.

Curious. Now I'm not saying I'm the same as evrybody else, or even that I'm particularly sane, but:-

When I realised my X had been reading my diary, I felt dismayed; hurt; bewildered; indignant.
When my X discovered I'd looked in his briefcase, he felt attacked; trapped; furious.

Guess which one of us was the sexual & financial cheat?

I have to agree that there is an enormous problem in your relationship if your willing to snoop. However, I can say that from the safety of a happy, trusting marriage.

Had my life taken a different path it could all be a bit different.

Of course it's a fucking troll.

Classic MO.

ie writes OP that will cause maximum outrage, refuses to justify or explain what they mean, just repeats what was said in OP, then when others get annoyed rolls out the good old 'bullying' and 'why can't we talk about this properly' line.

OP - there have been loads of articulate, measured posts on this thread and none of them have come from you.

If all you can do is repeat your inital assertion without addressing the very many good points made to you by other posters then you are clearly unable to 'discuss properly' yourself.

Morris...it's not really complicated is it?
Not a troll lol
Just an opinion that can only be reiterated a certain number of times...people can agree,disagree or just have a think about it

OP you said somewhere that struggling relationships should be sorted out by communication. How do you suggest this is done when one party is unable and/or unwilling to communicate, even with counsellors?

And on a practical note, having the evidence from 'snooping' can make a huge difference in what your solicitor can haggle about, which translates into real money that can be the difference between a decent home for you and the DCs or being out on the street. Unfortunately, principles do not equate to a roof over one's head.

I speak from experience.

What an absurd individual you are OP clearly you have no clue as to what reduces a person to digging around in the first place.

I'm not absurd....I haven't done anything !!
That is absurd in iyself..
People have a choice between right and wrong,you can justify it all you like but it doesn't change that basic premise

Why do you think it is illegal to tap phones??