Just how bad an effect does arguing parents have on children?

[undercovamutha]

DH and I have always had quite a 'feisty' relationship. I think most of our friends would think of us being happy together, but with definitely plenty of niggling at each other. I think it is a mixture of DH's incredible stubborness and my obsession with fairness that causes the problems. We tend to get on well most of the time, but have little periods of a week or so, a couple of times a year, when we argue lots.

Anyway, our DCs are 1 and nearly 4 (DD), and I am worried about the effect our niggling/arguments might be having on them - particularly on DD. There's nothing to make me think she is effected, other than the fact that DH does tend to get quite shouty which I don't think can be nice for DD to hear. If I try to 'shush' him, it just makes him more cross. I must admit that I do (almost subconsciously) rile him and probably start a good few arguments myself. However, I always keep my responses measured, and quiet, and in another room if possible.

Basically, I was wondering just how bad an effect this would have on the DCs. My parents NEVER argued when I was a child (that I know of) but DH's were apparently always 'getting at each other' although were married for 40+ years. I WANT to stop arguing all together, but its just not as simple as that. Any views?

Very bad - a lot worse than you think- shouting and aggression around them is very much to be avoided. It frightens them.

They feel tension between their parents without even hearing shouting.

You both need to grow up, to be blunt.

Agree with msboogie.

We have disagreements with each other in front of the DCs and sometimes get snippy and I think it is good for them to see that you can disagree and get annoyed with someone and still love them.

But if you are aggressively shouting at each other that is going to scare them and it will also teach them that the way to resolve disputes is to yell.

YOu are absolutely right msboogie. I wish I could be stronger, and I do feel like I am really letting them down. I just find it so hard to let things go that I feel are unfair, and then it spirals into a row. DH is just as bad.

I think I need to have a real word with myself and think about how DH and I can be more ADULT about things. Tbh I am ashamed of myself .

I had some good advice (not really tried it, as soon after I discovered my H was having an affair and we separated) that you keep your cool and write down what is bothering you and once the children are in bed you share it. Most of the time, by the time the DCs are in bed, you would realise it was daft and bin it and not mention it, on the otherhand, if it's still important by then, you're calm enough to verbalise it in a more constructive way.

I'm sure it can't work all the time but it's worth a try?

I have to confess since my H and I separated, my children have behaved better, been happier, easier to settle for bedtimes and more content. So even though I thought I was handling things well towards the end of our marriage and trying to be calm and reasonable as much as possible, the DCs still picked up on all the vibes.

Morloth - I don't tend to get aggressive/shouty, but I cannot deny that I really rile DH and push his buttons, leading to him getting shouty.

It doesn't happen very often, and if I think that DD has heard I always go and see her and say that mummy and daddy have been a bit silly and cross, but that we all love each other etc etc. I can't help thinking that this doesn't make much difference though.

Don't feel bad. I know how hard it is - sometimes you feel if you don't stand up for yourself its like you are letting the man walk all over you.

You both need to find a better way to resolve your conflicts is all.

Loads - I grew up with warring parents and, even though, I have now reached 41, it has left huge mental scars. I think it has profoundly affected my world view and makes it very difficult for me to cope in some situations. And the behaviour your describe - short-tempered husband and passive-aggressive wife - is exactly how my parents were and still are. Stop needling each other - even if your daughter isn't frightened/confused by it, it will influence the way she behaves with othets later in life.

Thanks msboogie - that's exactly how I feel.

Thanks for the advice TeaandCake. Will mention it to DH and try to give it a go.

And I will try to work on my addiction to having to have the last word in an argument!

Lala - I think that is my greatest worry - that we are teaching DD that shouting and arguing is an acceptable way to behave.

If you are deliberately pushing each other's buttons and getting personal in your arguments, that will really affect your children.

Apart from the insecurity it will give them (will mummy and daddy end up getting divorced? Don't they love each other? etc. etc.) you are also giving them very bad role models as to how to deal with conflict.

Nothing wrong with discussing things and disagreeing, it's good for children to hear and see that adults can disagree and talk about problems and communicate effectively, but if that is in the form of arguments, shouting, and personal attacks, then it will be negative.

Are your arguments and conflicts about really important things or are you arguing about silly little things that you really shouldn't be arguing about?

on the flip side, your children grow up knowing that mums and dads can fall out, quite horrendously, but still love eachother. It teaches them that relationships, REAL relationships, do involve disagreements. These get resolved through both parties giving and taking.

Children model on parents behaviour - if they see parents seething with quiet fury and hissing at eachother, rather than having a big fight and kissing and making up the next day....doesn that teach them something equally bad? That you should bottle up your anger and not express how you feel?

I want my children to have relationships where their feelings are valued. I want them to epress how they feel knowing that in a loving relationship, thats how you do things. I dont want them seething with resentment but not expressing it because they fear love will be withdrawn if they express themselves.

The most important thing is that the children witness how you make up after an argument. We all argue, and this can be no bad thing, but they also need to see the making up process aswell.

Most of my early memories are of lying in bed, crying silently because my parents were shouting and arguing downstairs.

It got better for me when my brother was born because then I could be the strong, grown up one and creep into his bed to comfort him and let him know that it was just something they did and they didn't mean anything by it.

My parents were pretty much happy together and probably would have described their relationship as 'feisty'.

As an adult I cannot cope with conflict at all and will walk away from anyone rather than argue.

OMDB - an example would be me keeping on at DH to do something (put bin out, change DS's nappy, mow lawn), him not doing it, me getting cross, him digging his heels in, me making some comment which winds him up (something along the lines of 'this is typical of you, not being bothered to help with anything'), him getting all shouty ('i do loads around here, and noone appreciates anything I do, I just get nagged all the time......').

So basically standard, fairly insignificant stuff!

Yuno - that is the last thing I would ever want for my DD. I love her so much, and I can't understand how I can put her first in almost every aspect of life, and yet can't put her first when it comes to stopping arguing. Hopefully I can change!

My parents argued - well, my mum verbally attacked my dad absolutely constantly, made him use the outside loo, shouted at him, criticised him, complained to me about what a bad husband he was for not having the sort of job she wanted etc. I'm now in my mid-40s, have lived with the same man for years, but just can't commit in case we start to argue and there's no escape. (Have even kept my own house just in case!)

I don't think you are necessarily teaching DD that arguing is an acceptable way to behave, though. My OH and I absolutely never argue. His parents used to argue, too, and we both tend to avoid each other if we're grumpy. Totally agree with YY - I walk away rather than argue.

I don't think it's the shoutiness that causes the problems, though. It's the constant undercurrent and stress, and the pressure on the child that it's somehow your fault.

depends. my parents used to quarrel, then make up. but not all the time, jsut every now and again. so, nasty to see as kids, but not a problem on the whole. Part of the sparks in a relationshp that was (and is) on the whole loving. But they would stick to arguing the issue, not get into insults.

my DHs parents used to have horrible constant rows, and it ended in divorce which by all accounts would have been better if it had happened sooner - DH being a cheerful soul seemed to manage to pretend it wasn't happening and get on with his own life (by my lights, being a pretty naughty teenager), though his brother left home at 16....his mum does not stick to arguing the issue, she'll quite often resort to calling DH fat, lazy etc, when he argues with her. not nice.

so i think its a matter of how far you go, and not saying things that stay hurtful even after the argument. respect is like a vase (once broken hard to repair..)....a parent that is constantly breaking the rules and saying the unsayable does not keep their childrens respect.

I think it's less about whether you argue, and more about how you do it.

if you do it with respect (eg no swearing, no contempt, no stonewalling etc) and you resolve the issue positively (agree on a compromise, or both fall about laughing at something you've said) then it can be positive I think.

on the flipside though, i have a friend whose parents NEVER argued and after moving out when we were at college together, she seriously could not handle conflict at all... in life conflict is inevitable and i think having parents who sometimes argue but manage to resolve their differences, can help.

constant or abusive arguing is different though, obviously.

What Shongololo and Ike say is really important - children need to know how adults make up afterwards and that you still love someone you have been angry with. This is really important when you've been cross with them (your DCs) for example, they know that it's all ok again once the conflict is over.

The flip-side - avoiding conflict altogether - isn't ideal either. They will encounter conflict in life and need to know good ways of dealing with it and moving on. I never saw my parents argue until my mid-twenties and it meant I had no idea how to behave when there was disagreement in a relationship, I had to learn how to argue/put my point across calmly/say sorry/accept an apology when I'd been hurt/resolve it (not all at once, obviously!). All I knew of arguments was what I'd seen in EastEnders (no, really) and that left me thinking that any argument in a relationship equalled high drama and 'we're going to split up now'.

Well done for recognising that your own style (i.e. both of you) isn't perhaps the best.

Sorry, now I look at it that 'well done' sounds patronising - not my intent - I just mean it's hard to look at oneself in that way and then even harder to do something about it.

Not feeling patronised Minnie! Thanks for your post.

I think the reason I posted about this (I MN a lot but never in relationships or about anything too personal) was to try to shock myself into doing something about the problem. You have all been a great help. Thank you.

my parents used to argue, "out of our way" - once we were in bed, or in another room. It was no better than them arguing in the same room imo, we still heard it. And in some respects it was worse.

To this day I still wonder if my dad ever hit my mum, the arguments sometimes used to be really aggressive and I'd sometimes hear him throwing stuff.

I've often thought (for me personally) at least if they'd argued in front of us I wouldn't have this question constantly in the back of my mind.....

I don't think it's that bad, personally. A bit of shouting is fine. It's whether or not you resolve your conflicts in a sensible way that matters.

I grew up with v v v shouty but loving parents and am unscarred by the yelling (though I do enjoy a good yell myself). DH grew up with simmering silent resentment and I don't think it did him any good at all.