Just how bad an effect does arguing parents have on children?

[undercovamutha]

DH and I have always had quite a 'feisty' relationship. I think most of our friends would think of us being happy together, but with definitely plenty of niggling at each other. I think it is a mixture of DH's incredible stubborness and my obsession with fairness that causes the problems. We tend to get on well most of the time, but have little periods of a week or so, a couple of times a year, when we argue lots.

Anyway, our DCs are 1 and nearly 4 (DD), and I am worried about the effect our niggling/arguments might be having on them - particularly on DD. There's nothing to make me think she is effected, other than the fact that DH does tend to get quite shouty which I don't think can be nice for DD to hear. If I try to 'shush' him, it just makes him more cross. I must admit that I do (almost subconsciously) rile him and probably start a good few arguments myself. However, I always keep my responses measured, and quiet, and in another room if possible.

Basically, I was wondering just how bad an effect this would have on the DCs. My parents NEVER argued when I was a child (that I know of) but DH's were apparently always 'getting at each other' although were married for 40+ years. I WANT to stop arguing all together, but its just not as simple as that. Any views?

Didn't realise I had used therapy-speak. I suppose "irrational & spiteful" was a bit confrontational. I meant those exact words, but could have tried harder to find another way of saying it.

Thanks for your 'good points' comment. Please feel free to paraphrase those points, if it will be more helpful to undercovamutha.

So you have a couple of episodes a year (lasting a week) where you argue.

All couples argue. I am quite astounded at the wrap in cotton wool attitude on this thread.

Yes I agree that children should never witness verbal and/or physical abuse. I agree that there are things that little ears should not hear.

We don't all live in a fairy tale though. My DH and I adore one another, but we do argue (and a lot more than the OP does). We have a lot of financial worries, no family support and we are both burning the candle at both ends.

Whatever we argue about we always try to resolve our arguments amicably. I am pretty sure our kids assess us as a loving couple who sometimes disagree. My kids are not frightened of our disagreements, they realise that sometimes adults differ and that's just the way it is. On the odd occasion when we have a massive blowout, I will be honest with the kids and tell them that despite the fact that I love Daddy very much and vv, we are angry at each other, but we'll sort it out.

Kids need to learn resilience and how to resolve conflict. These things are a fact of life and cannot be avoided.

I leave this thread wondering if my slightly chaotic, ever so passionate and always vocal relationship of 18 years with my lovely DH is different to the majority ?

I grew up with parents who argued constantly. They were very aggressive with each other, swearing etc. Bizarrely, they really love each other and are still together and are each others' best friends. They have mellowed slightly but still go at it.

I grew up ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED of my father as he had the worst temper. If he was in a bad mood because of a fight with Mum, we all got it. I am not saying that you and your partner do this, but please be careful. Kids pick up on all tension without you knowing. I grew up with a crippling lack of self-confidence as I was afraid to be me and voice an opinion incase it provoked an outburst.

I was also very scared of relationships as I thought every relationship was like my parents. Thankfully, I am now married to the most mild-mannered man and although we disagree, it is an unspoken agreement between us that we simply will NOT argue infront of the kids (in a major way - don't get me wrong, we have normal niggles like everyone else! have you put the rubbish out yet kind of thing for the third time!).

Even now, I am nervous abouttaking my daughter to my parents' house in case they have an argument. It's very scary for a young child because they naturally think the world revolves around them and can't understand that rowing parents really is nothing to do with them.

my parents argued constantly during my childhood. my dad suffered from depression and could be really nasty- they were both miserable.

this had a huge effect on me from a young age and still affects my self esteem to this day. and indeed that of my siblings.

however, this may be because they were miserable all the time- sounds different to what you describe

" I am nervous abouttaking my daughter to my parents' house in case they have an argument"

My parents have done nothing but nit-pick, argue and grouch at each other for over 50 years. It upset me horribly as a child but I thought it was 'normal'. My son has been brought up by me alone and therefore has heard no arguments. One day we stayed with them and they started on their usual breakfast performance and (age about 4) he got very agitated and yelled at them to shut up and stop arguing. They were shocked and wanted me to tell him off... I refused because, frankly, it was something I should have said to them a long time ago. Out of the mouths of babes etc.

OP... make much more of an effort to be civil in front of your children.

nothing wrong with a good argument. I have seen a relate counsellor on telly say it is like oxygen for a relationship which IMO is exacty it.

i any close relationship there are two different people with two different life experiences that need to express themselves. arguments are inevitable. children need to see them not be hidden from them. (when they are often not even hidden because the children can hear the muffled tones through walls etc). much better for it all to be out in the open.

i am not talking bout dodgy arguments where there is name-calling etc or proper domestics! i am talking about normal, run of the mill, kiss and make up arguments which are part of a healthy emotional life.

IMO there are 4 types of dynamic in a relationship:

Those who row
Those who bicker
Those who have 'constructive discussions'
Those who seethe

The rowers let everything build up until they're on an incredibly short fuse, then they have big rows for a while, then it all calms down until it builds up to explosion point again. Of course even bickerers, discussers and seethers can have rows about big things but I'm talking about general patterns in relationships and how you deal with disagreements.

Bickerers constantly have little arguments but it's storm in a teacup stuff. On the one hand stuff is defused almost instantly, on the other hand you're almost constantly arguing and even if you love each other the appearance of being constantly 'at' each other is quite tough to deal with.

People who have constructive discussions (as a natural recourse) I think are quite few and far between. They're the sort of argument where you sit down calmly, lay everything out logically, express what happened and your feelings and find a solution. That's the kind of argument you can have in front of your children!

Seethers never argue. They might be incredibly pissed off but they get this tight tone in their voice a refuse to discuss anything. It's all over and finished but not resolved. Can you tell my mother seethed?

There are those who I think genuinely don't see conflict. Their partners often turn into seethers which produces little seethers who then think that if arguments are necessary they must seek to bicker or row which isn't really healthy.

Yes, disagreement is necessary and children need to see you make up again afterwards but how you disagree is also important. How you disagree is informed by how you've seen people disagree in the past and your own personality. Whilst clearly constructive discussion is the best way to sort things out I will confess to occasionally seething or trying to bicker - no-one's perfect, but understanding where you come from and why you seek to argue the way you do might help you get a handle on it and help you pass constructive habits on to your children.

Rows are good.
Not petty snipes all the time. i mean an occasssional row. heated. but never transcending into nastys, which you later regret.
I never regret anything i say in an argument. I mean every word. dh and I don't make snidey nasty commetns though. and this is once a 1/4 or twice a year.
then we get over it. it is good for children to see that mum and dad can discuss. that mum and dad can also talk about tricky things. that occassionally there is a minor raised voice. and sometimes an arguement. thta the parents get over.
then chjildren learn that this is a healthy and normal relationship.

How can that be anything but good ?

I like Fraks post.
My parents rarely argued. Loads of loads of posts here saying my parents argued alot. where are all the people who lived in loving peaceful families, with an occassional arguement ?
I can't be the only one.
I think my parents were the basis of what taught me a totally balanced view of what arguments are for, why they happen.
Agree with Padme, thei thread is full of cotton wool and is not realistic.

I could do with a few more arguments. or maybe i should join a debating society. i don't get enough argy-bargy in my life

I grew up with bickering parents angry and resentful at each other screaming rows to minor niggles that you describe.

I have only now got to the point where I can be "normal" in my relationship with DH I am 33. I have had lots of therapy and thought shouting and arguing was the way you communicated in a relationship. I had many failed ones and in a nutshell it really messed me up.

My parents never argued in front of us when we were growing up.

It since transpires that they are weird and messed up and utterly incapable of expressing emotions or dealing with conflict. We were also never allowed to show any emotions when we were growing up or we got the crap kicked out of us. Far from healthy.

We argue, but we also always resolve it and make up in front of the DCs. I reckon they'll grow up a lot better than I did.

I think it depends on the type of arguing. A lot of posters here are describing very traumatic experiences (fists going through windows etc), whereas the OP seemed to be talking about mostly low-level bickering, which is deffo wearing if it's going on all the time but not nearly so damaging I wouldn't have thought.

I think it's good for children to see adults have a disagreement and make up again. It shows them that it's okay to have a difference of opinion and that you can still love someone and be angry with them.

What isn't okay is constant sniping, put downs, point scoring and really loud shouting or if the arguing is constant.

The OP's situation doesn't sound good to me because it doesn't sound like healthy arguing

Well I can give you a first hand account.

Ex was horribly controlling and abusive. Hence quite a few arguments, loud sometimes but we did try to keep it under control.

We are split now my dc are 7 and 4. We try to spend a lot of "family" time together for the sake of the dc, he comes round every day and we go on family days out, I would say we get on 90% better than we did when together and he leaves if we start to niggle each other.

Still now though, my ds is visibly tense when we are together (getting better though) and if ex and I discuss anything no matter how calmly or decently just the fact that we are having a conversation is enough for ds to shout "don't argue" or "stop arguing". He is edgy and quite often has shouting fits and gets easily frustrated if he is trying to do something ending in tears and shouting. He is NOT like this when we are at home alone together or when he is alone with his Dad, only when his Dad and I are together. If there is a minor incident and he gets told off it will tip over into a major tantrum, again he is NOT like this when alone with either one of us. He is in a heightened state of tension because we are together and he is scared we are going to argue.

My dd (4) has no time whatsoever for her Dad in front of me but when I go out or he has them she is all over him. I am sure that this is because she remembers me crying and her father shouting at me so much when we were together and subconsciously is trying to show her "loyalty" to me .

Before anyone says "how could you allow that to happen?" I tried to end the relationship for years, he just would not leave. His parents argued much worse than this and they never split so I think he thought it was "normal", he used to play lip service to not wanting to give the dc a childhood like his parents but because we weren't as bad he thought he was doing ok.

I am hoping that I have not "ruined" my children emotionally, I hope there is enough time to turn things around for them, so they remember some happy family times. I hope I caught it early enough I really do.

marking the thread

DH and I both grew up in violent, abusive households. We don't argue nastily, but discuss issues calmly and reach compromise. We think it's important to argue openly, in front of our son, as it teaches him how to resolve conflict without getting angry and shouting.

Sorry, that all sounds very up my own arse. It's important to us that our son has a happier childhood than we both did, so we try our hardest.

My parents are good friends. They had a terrible row once that I can remember.

I have grown up hating conflict of any kind and I have very low self esteem.

My H is extremely aggressive towards me. He gets frustrated as my memory is not very good (no sleep and v busy) and often loses it with me. I am often scared of him when he is like this and I worry of the impact it will have on my DC.

I think that if you are good friends at the end of the day you can resolve issues. Endless arguiing is horrible for all involved and only happens if people don't listen and try and control you.

I hate him telling me what to do and can't take diection and even sometimes have problems at work etc as I get so defensive of criticism nowadays. It's because of the conflict with him, and so I suppose my conclusion is that:

• yes arguing constantly is not v good for DC
• the example you are set by your parents is important, either you re-create it or deliberately work against it
• ultimately a good healthy realtionship is based on good friendship and respect and if that's the basis you're setting a good example anyway.

Everyone argues when they have children, it is noral to have disagreements at home. But extremet conflict on an ongoing basis is no good for anyone in that house...

will try and avoid proffesional therapy speak but the majority of rowing is defo not a good thing for kids. The exception is rowing that is non- agressive/loud and obviously non-violant and in which there is a resolution (at the time of the row not afterwards- and I mean resolution/working it out not just forgiving each other). This type of rowing shows kids that you can disagree and it be ok..... There has been lots and lots of research in this area and there are var. negative effects on kids....There is a book called "not in front of the children" that looks at all the reasons why rowing is not good (even when they are upstairs in bed- hence title)

I am interested in this thread, me and dh have had some horrible, awful, nasty rows and i am gutted forever about the effect they probably have had on our dd (3.10) ds is 9m so hopefully has escaped. We have tried our best to calm down our rows so it doesn't involve screaming, shouting, abuse and tears and just vocalise stuff and discuss it calmly. Easier said than done but we've made a pact no name calling, no insults and no voices above a certain decibel.

However said that i don't think it's doable to live with someone without disagreements and I'm sorry mrsboogie but I will and do nag my dh if he's messy, lazy or inconsiderate re house stuff and childcare. So so many of my friends are in "happy" relationships because they rarely row, or mores to the point they're so obsessed with the whole perfection thing they couldn't bear to admit there was a flaw in their perfect lives. But they are ground down and demoralised by doing all the housework, getting up every weekend morning with the kids, doing the lions share of childcare, sacrificing their own hobbies and interests so their partner can pursue theirs unhindered. Only having one dc because their husbands refuse to have anymore as it's too disruptive to their lives, staying in every friday night because their dh HAS to go out every friday to relax etc.etc. Occassionally I get a comment about how "lucky" i am re dh and childcare, it's because it's split 50/50 and I wouldn't have it any other way!!

Me and dh bitch and pick at each other because we're tired, worried, stressed or ill quite often. That's real life. And whilst i don't want my dd being a relationship when she's older characterised by screaming and shouting neither do i want her to be a doormat.

Dhs parents never argued, they just didn't speak for years, his Dad never talked to his Mum apart from the basics then left abruptly when dh was 20 to go and live in Ireland. My parents argued, not great but the emotional fall out from smouldering, simmering, seething resentment is far worse imo. I have no tolerance for sulkers and have cut contact/let friendships fizzle out for this very reason, far more controlling and immature than arguing imo.

Frak I think theres a fifth type.
We're like the rowers but theres no bottling. The rows will happen because of something thats just happened and only occasionally. The children have it explained to that that Mummy and Daddy argue just like they do with their siblings. It doesn't mean it's right but adults aren't perfect either. They also see us make up (well some of it
We don't simmer or seethe and we're generally very happy and the children know that.

DHs parents used to go out to the car to argue, hes not emotionally healthy but I don't know if thasts not more to do with undiagnosed mild asd
My parents used to argue occasionally, they would do it in front oif us and I grew up knowing that adults are human but that my parents loved each other dearly.

Both sets are still very happily married.

Having rows and not speaking are both terrible for children, imo and experience. ViveLaFrak's post is so true - what's wrong with "constructive discussion". Couples are bound to disagree, but you don't need to row about it to reach a solution. Why do you need to argue to get to a fair 50:50 split?

bronze, that is more like constructive discussion really .

I like ViveLaFrak @ Wed 14-Jul-10 07:42:29

My parents would argue and physically fight every week without fail for as long as I can remember. Me and my sister would go and hide in a cupboard for a couple of hours. Sometimes we would have to separate them from fighting (we were about 7 and 9). My mother went for my father with a knife, milk bottle and they both went at each other with their fists. They would carry on arguing at night and we wouldn't be able to sleep. Then we would be bundled into the car and told by my mum we were leaving. Whilst in the car my mother would regale us with her views on men 'they are all bastards, only want one thing and usually off other women' - god it is a wonder we didn't turn out lesbians. We were smacked and shouted at for the smallest of things. They were young, immature and found us kids I think a bit of a burden.

They think they bought us up well???. I am now a very shy and quiet person and my coping strategy throughout my childhood was just to be quiet. Constant arguing is never a good thing. It has such an irreversable effect on a child. Everybody argues on the odd occasion, half an hour a month or so and with a resolution. If there is violence or constant arguing really seriously consider what you are doing to your kids.

My kids are loved, rarely hear arguing and if they do we stop, explain that we are disagreeing and try to resolve later. My aim is to raise healthy, confident, self assured people.

Two small things. first i realise it may be totally idealistic and maybe unrealistic but to everyone who says on this thread we argue because life is so stressful, DH and i are under so much pressure, work too hard, no money etc etc, aren't you just doubling the stress you are both respectively under by using up what remaining energy you do have to take it all out on the other? surely it is better to at least attempt some kind of version of "us against the world" rather than using your partner as an emotional punch bag because you can, and if the children should be your reason for trying then let them be. God knows it is very hard for lots and lots of people but why use that last little bit of energy you do have just to take it all out on the other half?
I do appreciate that real relationships are like this and do involve conflict but how much energy are you "dedicating" to fighting with your other half where that energy might be put to better use somewhere else.
Second i think it is a fine line between the kiddies thinking all we want is for mummy and daddy to stay together. there comes a point when mummy and daddy apart but there being some peace, stability, routine and respect going on is better than mummy and daddy in the same house but a constant battle going on.