Just how bad an effect does arguing parents have on children?

[undercovamutha]

DH and I have always had quite a 'feisty' relationship. I think most of our friends would think of us being happy together, but with definitely plenty of niggling at each other. I think it is a mixture of DH's incredible stubborness and my obsession with fairness that causes the problems. We tend to get on well most of the time, but have little periods of a week or so, a couple of times a year, when we argue lots.

Anyway, our DCs are 1 and nearly 4 (DD), and I am worried about the effect our niggling/arguments might be having on them - particularly on DD. There's nothing to make me think she is effected, other than the fact that DH does tend to get quite shouty which I don't think can be nice for DD to hear. If I try to 'shush' him, it just makes him more cross. I must admit that I do (almost subconsciously) rile him and probably start a good few arguments myself. However, I always keep my responses measured, and quiet, and in another room if possible.

Basically, I was wondering just how bad an effect this would have on the DCs. My parents NEVER argued when I was a child (that I know of) but DH's were apparently always 'getting at each other' although were married for 40+ years. I WANT to stop arguing all together, but its just not as simple as that. Any views?

I had parents who would have a row in front of us

It possibly taught me to stand up for myself, but really that could just be in my genes. I think it is dangerous and unfair to attribute a lot of adult behaviour (especially such massive claims as many have here) on whether parents argue in front of children

There are so many factors at work that it is impossible to say whether they really had any effect.

Chill

i am forty now and am rendered unhelpfully mute by disagreements, even polite ones: shouting parents ime have a very negative effect on children.

Not meant to be dismissive. It is a rather large claim, and maybe the parenting style in general is to blame for your feelings of insecurity and anxiety , i.e. that they did not show you love and explain their arguments were not your fault etc etc. I am speculating, just to make the point that it is difficult to attribute adult behaviour to a single cause

ladyblabah it is very well accepted that badly handled conflict and aggression have a very, very bad effect on children.

No one is suggesting that parents must waltz around in some saccharine Stepford existence for the benefit of their children - it is about how you handle conflict that matters.

Is it handled in a way that allows the children to feel safe and secure or do they have to lie in bed listening to screaming rows downstairs or feel mounting dread as mummy nags and daddy shouts and then it all kicks off again?

It is not impossible to say there is an adverse effect if people report being affected by hearing rows, and the emotional impact of such rows, from decades ago.

The OP is right to have concerns.

I completely agree with MsBoogie's post. She has managed to put it far more succinctly than I would have been able to. Completely agree wholeheartedly with it.

As I said, it is parenting style in general, not necessarily the fact that parents have arguments.

I love arguments! But I rarely get a good argument, because it's not a widespread skill. A good argument is passionate, may well involve shouting, and NEVER descends to the personal. It's debate.

My family had both types. The 'impassioned conversation' type of argument I am grateful for. It has enhanced my life. The other, digging, hateful, bullying type of argument has tainted my life and continues to do so. That's not agrguing, in book, it's rowing.

What you're doing is irrational & spiteful, I'm afraid. It will undermine your marriage was well as your children's emotional security. You can fix it without too much hassle, honest! Getting out my Transactional Analysis drum for another quick bang, now ...

What you describe: "me making some comment along the lines of 'this is typical of you, not being bothered to help with anything', him getting all 'noone appreciates anything I do, I just get nagged'" is classic NAGGING, shame on you, mutha! His response is the classic aggressive response to nagging.

OK, so why is nagging, and why damaging? Because you didn't speak to him like an adult, and you lied. Is it "typical" of him? Even if it were, how helpful would it be to point that out? Is he "not bothered" and doesn't he help with ANYTHING? If those statements are actually true, you should be considering a divorce. More likely, it just comes out your mouth without stopping to check with your brain first

Please try saying what you mean instead of all this cataclysmic crap. I imagine what you meant was more like "The rubbish needs to go out tonight, could you just do it now please?" Fyi, acceptable 'adult' replies would include "I'll do it after the news", "In a minute", "Yeah, I'd forgotten" and "I can't tonight, I've broken my arm remember?" What he did say mirrors your own mistakes, though it's interesting he says he feel unappreciated ... and it's quite likely true.

Take a look at this primer on Assertiveness and this Transactional Analysis page. Have a go at it, why don't you

mrs boogie ???? get real - people argue

ehm yeah I know they do, of course they do, it would be nigh on impossible to cohabit with another person on a long term basis and not argue but it's how they argue and how they resolve conflict that affects whether or not it damages their kids.

I never nag. My DP is lazy as all get out but I would rather live in a messy house than nag him. I won't have it said that I nag - its counter-productive anyway.

people argue in rl

I think it possibly more harmful not too - atguments are both a release and a resolution of difficulties and disagreements

Deny kids seeing this they will not know that you can row and still love one another

i bicker at dp and have chilled kids

they know we love one another but living with someone for 20 years can be annoying

My parents screamed and shouted - it was horrible.
DH's parents never rowed but would spend days in passive aggressive sulks - he says it was horrible.

We bicker sometimes and I genuinely don't think it is a problem for the children. Like others I think that it is important for them to understand that anger/frustration is normal, but that being angry and still loving someone deeply is possible. I also want them to understand that there are avenues for expressing your anger and frustration that are not physical.

Frankly I think it would be more damaging for them if I had a DH who did nothing (I don't) and I put up with it because I didn't want to nag!!

Posy, you just don't think do you? You're always so sure you're right, you never give anyone the chance to get a word in edgeways! Shut up, will you?

... or, to put it differently ...

You have a point about children learning how to negotiate a disagreement, but there are constructive ways to it and there are destructive, combative ones.

See what I mean??

I think we can all draw a distinction between occasional bickering which, as many people say, is very hard to avoid and can be quickly resolved and a long-term pattern of rowing which becomes personal, very heated and leads to festering resentments afterwards. Obviously, the latter is going to have a hugely detrimental effect on children who have to live with this and I think that this is what most of us who say that we carry the long-term consequences of our parents' arguments are referring to.

Incidentally, ladyblahblah, you may feel that your parents' rowing led you to be able to stand up for yourself, but to others your standing up for yourself may come across as being quite aggressive or defensive .

what if you just told your DCs what you've said here? tell them you're trying to change but it's hard, but you'll keep trying, because you want to be better? My parents fought like ferrets, (still do, but with less venom after 50 odd years), i thought it was just what everyone's parents did. Can't say it bothered me much, but I'm sure it affected my mental furniture in some ways.

I havent read this whole thread but just wanted to add that my parents would fight a lot pretty much for the whole of my childhood and whilst i was at home and continued to do so whilst my siblings were at home after i left for uni. My earliest memory was my dad putting his fist through a window during a row with my mum and my mum storming out of the house shouting something about feminism (usually) and roaring up the street in her car leaving my sister and i crying to my dad when is mummy coming back? is she coming back and my dad saying he didnt know. As I say this kind of thing continued for the 18 years I was at home and for a good 10 years afterwards. We were all "involved" in the low level domestic viloence over the years in some way or another, i remember my mum looking a little pleased when my brother aged 5 used to shout at my dad "stop it daddy" when my dad looked like he might start to get violent during a fight, as if upsetting a 5 year old somehow justified her position - now you have upset the children.
In brief, yes fighting between your parents does damage you, and i would say this is the case whether or not violence or "passionate" fighting is involved. When I was young it was because I was constantly obsessed with whether my parents were about to divorce and the resulting and constant insecurity, when i was older i resented being a pawn in their endless drama, and even now years and years after I have left home I have very little respect for them and i dont think their relationship was much (or any) of a role model for any of us children. They are still together and i don't respect them any more for this although they both appear hurt that none of us can get excited about their wedding anniversaries etc nowadays
So in answer to OP yes constant arguing is damaging to your children and I am not actually sure that any "type" of arguing which implies any serious or ongoing insecurity in the family unit is actually any better or less damaging than any other type

Both DH and I come from argue-y families. We (occasionally) argue horribly.

I don't know how to stop it, tbh. We are like rats in a cage sometimes: so stressed, so tired, so confined and just trying to get through the time ahead.

We adore our children and do enormous amounts to make sure they are happy and know they are loved ... apart from handle our own relationship very well.

I suppose I am asking for advice, really. I'm not stupid, but I don't know how to stop it. We rile each other all the time. Of course I would think he is the more aggressive and provocative partner, but I suspect he thinks the same of me.

We're just fucking tired of being used and abused, really. Both of us slog our guts out.

My parents used to argue every night when we were in bed. I used to dread going to bed, I'd never be able to sleep anyway because they were yelling and sniping at each other for hours. I moved away from home as quickly as I could and, being honest, I have no idea how to be in a supportive, caring relationship because I've never experienced one. I remember then arguing on my birthday, I'd really had enough so I just cried myself to sleep. I'd rather be a single parent then put my child through this, it's selfish. Sorry, you wanted to know.

itsgrace again whereas you are the voice of reason or just on mn?

grace... i might get what you are saying

Like I said, Posy, my family taught me to debate but also taught me how to be bullied, insulted and beaten up. I have learned to communicate more effectively because my relationship 'skills' nearly got me killed.

So, I hope: in real life as well

Ah! OK

I was thinking "bloody hell, that worked a little too well ..."

Grace, think you had some v good points in your post to the OP but could have made them in a friendlier, less I'm-holier-than-thou way, tbh.

Just 'cos you use therapy speak, doesn't make you Da Boss, innit.